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Post by Rolent Tex on Apr 4, 2015 8:46:06 GMT -5
Who are you to doubt Meng? Theres no video evidence of his true ability because if you try to video tape a real life Meng brawl, your phone either grows chest hair or spontaneously combusts.
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tms
Don Corleone
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Post by tms on Apr 4, 2015 8:49:18 GMT -5
People picking a guy based on likely lies of fights with drunks over a man who legit won the heavyweight in MMA shows how wrestlers are justified in thinking fans are still marks. Brock has proven himself in a public setting for all earth to see - Haku hasn't. There is no debate. f***ing ludicrous. Unproven =/= Untrue Saying that Brock would definitely win is also ludicrous in your scenario. Of course Brock would be who you would put your money on, but you're trying to prove a definite when there are unknown factors (in this case: Haku's true skill). Someone claiming a certainty when they themselves admit that they don't know all the facts are, in my opinion, more ignorant than those betting on the dark horse. You can't say "there is no debate" and selfishly try to shut the discussion down when the whole argument centers around an unknown, and debatable, factor. Excellent post. Brock will get the majority of the public opinion through a combination of recent feats, being the most dominant and one of the most popular wrestlers in WWE history, and this perception that "Meng just beat up drunks in a bar!", but Meng from all accounts only really showed his teeth when provoked as opposed to competing in a sport watched by millions. I will say this, Meng's athleticism is being grossly overlooked in this thread. He probably had the most raw strength on the roster in his prime, and was unbelievably coordinated and agile for his size. Dude was thick as a wall and could throw out kicks that made Michaels' look pathetic. This is basically a "my dad could beat up your dad!" subject and impossible to say definitively.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Apr 4, 2015 8:57:53 GMT -5
Unproven =/= Untrue Saying that Brock would definitely win is also ludicrous in your scenario. Of course Brock would be who you would put your money on, but you're trying to prove a definite when there are unknown factors (in this case: Haku's true skill). Someone claiming a certainty when they themselves admit that they don't know all the facts are, in my opinion, more ignorant than those betting on the dark horse. You can't say "there is no debate" and selfishly try to shut the discussion down when the whole argument centers around an unknown, and debatable, factor. There is no debate because Haku never proved himself. Lots of people train martial arts - doesn't make them a badass. People's friends with embellish stories for them. He has no basis to be believed as a Brock beater. Is Haku a bad dude? I'm sure of it - you couldn't pay me to f*** with him. That is not merit enough to say he could beat Brock though. Booker T and R-Truth are tough and can handle themselves as people have noted and by their pasts too. Wouldn't say they are gonna beat Jon Jones though. I'm not saying Meng would definitely beat Brock, I'm saying that claiming Brock would definitely win (and that there is nothing to debate) is ignorant. We just don't know for sure. You can argue odds all day long, but claiming a definite without all the facts and trying to shut down anyone who disagrees with you is a bit of an ass thing to do.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Apr 4, 2015 9:02:45 GMT -5
There is no debate because Haku never proved himself. Lots of people train martial arts - doesn't make them a badass. People's friends with embellish stories for them. He has no basis to be believed as a Brock beater. Is Haku a bad dude? I'm sure of it - you couldn't pay me to f*** with him. That is not merit enough to say he could beat Brock though. Booker T and R-Truth are tough and can handle themselves as people have noted and by their pasts too. Wouldn't say they are gonna beat Jon Jones though. I'm not saying Meng would definitely beat Brock, I'm saying that claiming Brock would definitely win (and that there is nothing to debate) is ignorant. We just don't know for sure. You can argue odds all day long, but claiming a definite without all the facts and trying to shut down anyone who disagrees with you is a bit of an ass thing to do. If I say it then it is true and factual. Frankie Dettori told me as much.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Apr 4, 2015 9:24:35 GMT -5
I'm not saying Meng would definitely beat Brock, I'm saying that claiming Brock would definitely win (and that there is nothing to debate) is ignorant. We just don't know for sure. You can argue odds all day long, but claiming a definite without all the facts and trying to shut down anyone who disagrees with you is a bit of an ass thing to do. If I say it then it is true and factual. Frankie Dettori told me as much. Screw Frankie Dettori! And the horse he rode in on!
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Crappler El 0 M
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Post by Crappler El 0 M on Apr 4, 2015 9:25:38 GMT -5
There's a huge difference between being a vicious bully and actually being strong and a good fighter. My vote's still with Brock on this one. To be fair, Meng didn't have a reputation for being a bully. Far from it.
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Essential1
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Post by Essential1 on Apr 4, 2015 13:57:46 GMT -5
I don't care about the stories of Haku. Brock is a freak, a trained fighter. Haku could of just been a bully who carefully picked his fights.
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Post by Kevin Hamilton on Apr 4, 2015 14:20:20 GMT -5
To be fair, NONE of the stories about Meng have ever painted him as anything other than a good dude UNLESS people were starting shit.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Apr 4, 2015 14:52:49 GMT -5
People picking a guy based on likely lies of fights with drunks over a man who legit won the heavyweight in MMA shows how wrestlers are justified in thinking fans are still marks. Brock has proven himself in a public setting for all earth to see - Haku hasn't. There is no debate. f***ing ludicrous. You're my least favorite poster here and yet I want to highfive you right now. Word for word, what you said in this post is true. Brock is a legitimate athlete who has beaten the best fighters in the world, Meng has not done that. His stories are just that, stories, there is no proof for any of it.
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Post by Tiger Millionaire on Apr 4, 2015 16:06:28 GMT -5
No legit tough guys existed before MMA, just a bunch of drunken brawlers.
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Post by Confused Mark Wahlberg on Apr 4, 2015 16:08:27 GMT -5
The idea that WCW would have fired Meng but no one wanted to tell him is hilarious.
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tms
Don Corleone
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Post by tms on Apr 4, 2015 16:38:39 GMT -5
No legit tough guys existed before MMA, just a bunch of drunken brawlers. Yes, but you left out the part where the toughest wrestler, by practically all accounts, "carefully selected his opponents" from the drunkards they exclusively fought. We can't forget that!
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Magnus the Magnificent
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Post by Magnus the Magnificent on Apr 4, 2015 18:18:10 GMT -5
I'd need something more tangible to go against Brock. This is how he reacts to being punched...
You mean slipping on the floor and trying to regain his balance while not leaving himself completely open to be hit?
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Apr 4, 2015 18:35:44 GMT -5
You know what, give me a six way match, round robin tournament, whatever. In their primes, we've got. Danny Hodge ('nuff said) Lesnar Meng (sumo training is NOT easy, and he did well with it) Gene LaBell (father of MMA and a badass in his old age) Kurt Angle Ken Shamrock All of them were or are pro wrestlers, all of them had an amature or professional background in a real fight, and all of them, at some point, have some "badass cred" around them. Gene LeBell & Danny Hodge are shooters to the Nth Degree, they'd twist a guy to the point where they'd be smothered by their own liver. They ever fight each other? Would love to see that NOW.
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Capt Lunatic
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Post by Capt Lunatic on Apr 4, 2015 20:30:55 GMT -5
This is how he reacts to being punched...
You mean slipping on the floor and trying to regain his balance while not leaving himself completely open to be hit? or fleeing like a terrified villager....6 of one or 1/2 dozen of the other I guess.
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mcstoklasa
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Post by mcstoklasa on Apr 4, 2015 20:45:31 GMT -5
You mean slipping on the floor and trying to regain his balance while not leaving himself completely open to be hit? or fleeing like a terrified villager....6 of one or 1/2 dozen of the other I guess. Brock wasn't the best UFC/MMA fighter ever, but he did damn good for a guy with limited experience. He worked hard and was able to use his freakish genetics- strength and speed- to his advantage to become UFC champ. Is Cain a better fighter? Yes, he's great, and probably would have beaten even a healthy Brock. However the guy in that video is not a healthy Brock, but rather a Brock right in the middle of his Diverticulitus troubles.
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Post by Throwback on Apr 4, 2015 20:54:35 GMT -5
People picking a guy based on likely lies of fights with drunks over a man who legit won the heavyweight in MMA shows how wrestlers are justified in thinking fans are still marks. Brock has proven himself in a public setting for all earth to see - Haku hasn't. There is no debate. f***ing ludicrous. I agree with you. And as I said in an earlier post. I think Brock would win. But Who's to say if Meng entered MMA he wouldn't have won the heavyweight title?
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Apr 4, 2015 21:07:18 GMT -5
These threads always end up this way... but, to hell with it, I'll throw in my 2 cents.
Setting matters, for one. If it's on hard ground, as opposed to a ring or a UFC mat, Brock is probably going to charge him Honky Kong style, double leg him, dump him on his head, and if Haku was still conscious he'd be getting his head split open.
Octagon/ring? Well, I'd still go with Brock, but things can and do happen. Ask GSP about Matt Serra. One errant punch and you're in bad shape.
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Post by Clawley Race on Apr 4, 2015 23:42:11 GMT -5
I like the posts about how Andre feared/respected Haku, as if he would have just shit on Brock all day long.
Anyway, I'd assume Brock for a lot of the reasons people have posted earlier.
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Post by Ryback on a Pole! on Apr 4, 2015 23:46:47 GMT -5
Brock. He's a highly trained monster of a man who proved he's one of the toughest men on the planet.
Meng is just a glorified street thug who made a reputation beating up drunks.
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