Big Poppa Pumpkin
Dennis Stamp
I'll be in the back polishing............ my belt.
Posts: 4,987
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Post by Big Poppa Pumpkin on Aug 20, 2015 17:46:48 GMT -5
It would really say something about the state of US prisons if there were dudes willing to go through sex changes just to be moved out of them.
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Post by SsnakeBite, the No1 Frenchman on Aug 20, 2015 17:47:18 GMT -5
If they do put Jenner in women's prison, how does it not set a terrible precedent of males considering themselves to be female in order to be placed in prison with the opposite sex? Simple, Jenner already transitionned. There is more to it than just saying "welp, I'm a woman now". The very least to do would be to have your gender officially changed, which I imagine is not a fast process.
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metylerca
King Koopa
Loves Him Some Backstreet Boys.
Don't be alarmed.
Posts: 12,479
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Post by metylerca on Aug 20, 2015 17:49:41 GMT -5
Again, not meaning to rustle feathers here, Identifying as a woman is different than being a woman, no? Pardon my ignorance on the topic, but Jenner identifies as a woman. That much has been said in interviews. If they do put Jenner in women's prison, how does it not set a terrible precedent of males considering themselves to be female in order to be placed in prison with the opposite sex? There is a aura of subjectivity there, given the Caitlyn character "debuted" in June and the accident that he's due to possibly be charged for happened in February. I'm far from a lawyer, I watch Law and Order sometimes, that's my bar experience, I'm sure this gets settled in court. I just figure it's interesting food for thought. I'm far from the most vocal supporter of the trans movement and am more than a little confused by it, but that's just dumb. Jenner has been struggling with this for a while and didn't plan out a sex change to get a sexy prison sentence. That holds about as much water as the politicians saying boys will identify as girls so they can shower with them in gym class. The costs outweigh any particular titillating benefits in this situation, especially in the country club resort prison Jenner would serve time in. Oh, I agree 104% with you, it is a dumb thing in practice. But what stops defense lawyers from using it? Given how ill informed most are, who is to say that there is not such an easy loophole created that takes advantage of what essentially amounts to "I don't want to get bullied in prison."?
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metylerca
King Koopa
Loves Him Some Backstreet Boys.
Don't be alarmed.
Posts: 12,479
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Post by metylerca on Aug 20, 2015 17:51:14 GMT -5
If they do put Jenner in women's prison, how does it not set a terrible precedent of males considering themselves to be female in order to be placed in prison with the opposite sex? Simple, Jenner already transitionned. There is more to it than just saying "welp, I'm a woman now". The very least to do would be to have your gender officially changed, which I imagine is not a fast process. If nothing else, we accidentally stumbled onto the next Adam Sandler summer comedy.
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suave
Dennis Stamp
"I only got on my knees for God and maybe to lick a girl's pussy" -Teddy Hart
Posts: 4,207
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Post by suave on Aug 20, 2015 17:52:27 GMT -5
If they do put Jenner in women's prison, how does it not set a terrible precedent of males considering themselves to be female in order to be placed in prison with the opposite sex? Simple, Jenner already transitionned. There is more to it than just saying "welp, I'm a woman now". The very least to do would be to have your gender officially changed, which I imagine is not a fast process. But she still hasn't changed as far as genitals go. That means she still hasn't finished transitioning.
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Post by Non Banjoble Tokens on Aug 20, 2015 17:55:14 GMT -5
Again, not meaning to rustle feathers here, Identifying as a woman is different than being a woman, no? Pardon my ignorance on the topic, but Jenner identifies as a woman. That much has been said in interviews. If they do put Jenner in women's prison, how does it not set a terrible precedent of males considering themselves to be female in order to be placed in prison with the opposite sex? There is a aura of subjectivity there, given the Caitlyn character "debuted" in June and the accident that he's due to possibly be charged for happened in February. I'm far from a lawyer, I watch Law and Order sometimes, that's my bar experience, I'm sure this gets settled in court. I just figure it's interesting food for thought. I'm far from the most vocal supporter of the trans movement and am more than a little confused by it, but that's just dumb. Jenner has been struggling with this for a while and didn't plan out a sex change to get a sexy prison sentence. That holds about as much water as the politicians saying boys will identify as girls so they can shower with them in gym class. The costs outweigh any particular titillating benefits in this situation, especially in the country club resort prison Jenner would serve time in. Now I'm sad I didn't think of this when I was in high school.
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Post by SsnakeBite, the No1 Frenchman on Aug 20, 2015 17:59:03 GMT -5
Simple, Jenner already transitionned. There is more to it than just saying "welp, I'm a woman now". The very least to do would be to have your gender officially changed, which I imagine is not a fast process. But she still hasn't changed as far as genitals go. That means she still hasn't finished transitioning. Not really. Many trans women don't go for the genital transition, for many reasons, from health concerns to a risk of loss of sensation. Point is, she had her gender changed and went through surgery and hormone therapy, I think her case leaves little doubt as to wether she's serious about being trans or not.
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Renslayer
Bill S. Preston, Esq.
every time i come around your city...
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Post by Renslayer on Aug 20, 2015 18:07:03 GMT -5
Trans people need visibility in a bad way. She provides it. I can only name two other trans celebrities who have a decent amount of visibility, Laverne Cox and Laura Jane Grace. Neither of them are nearly as visible as Jenner though. I'm of two minds here: On the one hand, trans people are severely underrepresented and need visibility. Caitlyn Jenner certainly provides that and can use her platform to good use. On the other, she is a celebrity and already has received so much more than so many trans people will ever get in their lifetimes, so I understand why some trans men and women feel a bit negatively about the attention she's receiving. I think this gets at something interesting. Jenner obviously has lots of privilege, but from everything I've read of her, she's used that to uplift and shine a light on the issues trans women (and more specifically, trans women of color) have been facing. She did it in her interview with Diane Sawyer, she did it at the ESPY's, & if I'm not mistaken, she's been doing it on her show. It's almost a textbook example of being a good ally, right?
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Post by Alice Syndrome on Aug 20, 2015 18:34:12 GMT -5
Didn't they put Chelsea Manning in a male prison or am I misremembering? Pretty messed up if they did. Military prison. They're being dicks about it. They're disallowing her long hair, hormones and last week they added a crime to her sheet for "expired toothpaste in the cell". I'm not even joking.
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Urethra Franklin
King Koopa
When Toronto sports teams lose, Alison Brie is sad
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Post by Urethra Franklin on Aug 20, 2015 18:35:37 GMT -5
I'm of two minds here: On the one hand, trans people are severely underrepresented and need visibility. Caitlyn Jenner certainly provides that and can use her platform to good use. On the other, she is a celebrity and already has received so much more than so many trans people will ever get in their lifetimes, so I understand why some trans men and women feel a bit negatively about the attention she's receiving. I think this gets at something interesting. Jenner obviously has lots of privilege, but from everything I've read of her, she's used that to uplift and shine a light on the issues trans women (and more specifically, trans women of color) have been facing. She did it in her interview with Diane Sawyer, she did it at the ESPY's, & if I'm not mistaken, she's been doing it on her show. It's almost a textbook example of being a good ally, right? That's the thing. I think everything Caitlyn is doing comes from the heart and she's doing her best to be an ally who is in a tremendous spotlight. The small portion of I Am Cait that I saw featured her attempting to secure tuition to nursing school for a young trans woman of colour. But it's a catch-22 in many ways. If I'm a young trans woman living in a small town, I think it's great having somebody in my situation being as visible as Caitlin is, but I don't know how strongly I would relate to her in that she's probably never faced the same kind of struggles I would have. And that's not to diminish Caitlyn's experience in any way. I just think hers is very atypical to most.
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Crappler El 0 M
Dalek
Never Forgets an Octagon
I'm a good R-Truth.
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Post by Crappler El 0 M on Aug 20, 2015 19:05:05 GMT -5
He's also in a position where he can be filmed as part of a personal atonement/redemption story. Just tune in to E! and stay tuned for Total Divas. That "he" is a typo, right? It was not a typo, but an honest mistake. I've thought of her as a man for so long that it was second-nature to use the masculine pronoun. It was just an instance of me not being used to thinking of her as a woman. Old habits die hard.
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Post by Display Name on Aug 20, 2015 19:06:55 GMT -5
I didn't even know Jenner killed someone. Was it totally brushed over in the media or something? Yeah, it was overshadowed by her coming out as trans right after the crash...coincidence?
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Phosphor Glow
Bill S. Preston, Esq.
Is a real girl!
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Post by Phosphor Glow on Aug 20, 2015 19:11:52 GMT -5
I didn't even know Jenner killed someone. Was it totally brushed over in the media or something? Yeah, it was overshadowed by her coming out as trans right after the crash...coincidence? Yes, I would imagine so.
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Big Poppa Pumpkin
Dennis Stamp
I'll be in the back polishing............ my belt.
Posts: 4,987
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Post by Big Poppa Pumpkin on Aug 20, 2015 19:12:55 GMT -5
I didn't even know Jenner killed someone. Was it totally brushed over in the media or something? Yeah, it was overshadowed by her coming out as trans right after the crash...coincidence?
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Post by Display Name on Aug 20, 2015 19:15:07 GMT -5
Yeah, it was overshadowed by her coming out as trans right after the crash...coincidence? Thanks, that's exactly the tone I was going for.
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Post by Rudy Gobert Fadeaway on Aug 20, 2015 20:19:40 GMT -5
Yeah, it was overshadowed by her coming out as trans right after the crash...coincidence? The day I started transitioning I suddenly took a large interest in black helicopters. I wonder what it could mean.
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BRV
Bill S. Preston, Esq.
Wants him some Taco Flavored Kisses.
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Post by BRV on Aug 20, 2015 20:25:02 GMT -5
It's amazing, all the vitriol directed at the Kardashian/Jenner family for just being addicted to fame and celebrity, yet of all of them, it turns out Caitlyn Jenner is the worst of the bunch because she very well could be guilty for killing another person. If anyone in the family is truly worthy of our scorn and criticism, it's Caitlyn.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 20, 2015 20:32:49 GMT -5
But she still hasn't changed as far as genitals go. That means she still hasn't finished transitioning. Not really. Many trans women don't go for the genital transition, for many reasons, from health concerns to a risk of loss of sensation. Point is, she had her gender changed and went through surgery and hormone therapy, I think her case leaves little doubt as to wether she's serious about being trans or not. Exactly. Laura Jane Grace didn't get sex reassignment surgery either, as she's afraid of surgery in general. She's still a transwoman. If I ever get to the point of transitioning I wouldn't be able to go past doing HRT because of money. It's a very expensive thing to do. Doesn't make me any less of who I really am.
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Post by Toilet Paper Roll on Aug 20, 2015 20:37:09 GMT -5
I doubt jenner does a day in prison one way or another. Id say money winds up changing hands in a civil wrongful death suit
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Post by Alyce: Old Media Enthusiast on Aug 20, 2015 20:39:35 GMT -5
Simple, Jenner already transitionned. There is more to it than just saying "welp, I'm a woman now". The very least to do would be to have your gender officially changed, which I imagine is not a fast process. But she still hasn't changed as far as genitals go. That means she still hasn't finished transitioning. Wrong. You can transition without having to have surgery. The state of your genitalia has little to do with how you perceive yourself via gender.
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