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Post by Rudy Gobert Fadeaway on Aug 21, 2015 0:33:46 GMT -5
This thread is not-so-slowly going in to some uncomfortable territory, so I'm going to take Clash, Never a Meter Maid's revolutionary suggestion on how to handle these situations. I AM LIKE ALSO FIGHT
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Reflecto
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Post by Reflecto on Aug 21, 2015 0:37:19 GMT -5
I think prisons have an alternative lifestyle section. I watched a Beyond Scared Straight episode and they had a transgender (Man into Woman) in that section along with gay men. That's where Jenner would go. Kind of weird that we got so far off the original topic though. It should be part of it, though- whether or not you feel the prison sentence for Jenner would be misgendering her, the fact that there's a serious problem with trans people having violent crime happen to them anyway, then the prison system trying not to put a trans person in a situation which would virtually guarantee that violent crime WILL happen to them for being trans should probably take precedent over worries about misgendering the person in question.
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FinalGwen
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Particularly fond of muffins.
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Post by FinalGwen on Aug 21, 2015 0:45:36 GMT -5
Gender isn't scientific, it's sociological. Also, the wide spectrum of chromosonal possibilities and the crude way intersex people are forced into one role or another prove that the limited understanding of biological sex we've mustered up so far isn't all that rigid either. So no, scientifically it does not. I guess I should have said physically more than scientifically. If you're born with an XY chromosome, you're physically male, regardless of what you identify as. Obviously there are unique cases, but generally speaking. There are people born female with XY chromosomes, and people born male with XX chromosomes. And for the talk of it being 'unique', there are studies that suggest that up to 2% of births are intersex in some form or another. For comparison's sake, around 2% of the world's population has red hair. It's a statistical anomaly, but to act like red haired people don't exist isn't scientific. Not to mention that as a general rule, most of us don't actually know our chromosomes. We assume that we know it because chromosomes are treated as a binary, which really isn't the case, but unless you've had a genetic phenotype, we have no idea what they actually are. This may be getting slightly off topic, but it relates back to how a lot of our social systems are based on things that we think we know about biology. The fact that Caitlyn Jenner has the potential to end up in a male jail despite her gender is a result of this.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 21, 2015 0:47:50 GMT -5
I think prisons have an alternative lifestyle section. I watched a Beyond Scared Straight episode and they had a transgender (Man into Woman) in that section along with gay men. That's where Jenner would go. Kind of weird that we got so far off the original topic though. It should be part of it, though- whether or not you feel the prison sentence for Jenner would be misgendering her, the fact that there's a serious problem with trans people having violent crime happen to them anyway, then the prison system trying not to put a trans person in a situation which would virtually guarantee that violent crime WILL happen to them for being trans should probably take precedent over worries about misgendering the person in question. I'm not trying to be a dick when I say this, but I have no idea what you're trying to say here. I should add the prison was in Georgia and it was literally called the "Alternative Lifestyles" section.
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Post by basicdugganomix on Aug 21, 2015 0:54:00 GMT -5
Nothing to do with logistics or gender identity
Penis means she gets kept with males, but being a celebrity makes him a high profile prisoner. Meaning e stays away from gen pop.
So her sentence will probably be mostly spent in jail waiting to get sentenced or fighting it. Then going to a prison to pay for her crimes among those with penises.
It isn't a question of gender identity. Just since bruce said she loves females and has a penis he would have sex with other females.
In prison sex is never consensual and there are consrquences like adding a month to a sentence
Would you keep a female to male trans in a male population even though he looks like a guy? No because they have a vagina and will be raped.
This is the divide. Bruce got the whole shebang then she'd be kept with femalesz
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Post by Raskovnik on Aug 21, 2015 0:58:44 GMT -5
Nothing to do with logistics or gender identity Penis means she gets kept with males, but being a celebrity makes him a high profile prisoner. Meaning e stays away from gen pop. So her sentence will probably be mostly spent in jail waiting to get sentenced or fighting it. Then going to a prison to pay for her crimes among those with penises. It isn't a question of gender identity. Just since bruce said she loves females and has a penis he would have sex with other females. In prison sex is never consensual and there are consrquences like adding a month to a sentence Would you keep a female to male trans in a male population even though he looks like a guy? No because they have a vagina and will be raped. This is the divide. Bruce got the whole shebang then she'd be kept with femalesz This dude literally works around this stuff and isn't trying to spark a debate or argue any of that shit, just trying to answer the question of how she'd most likely be placed in the real world as it is now.
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Post by cageking666 on Aug 21, 2015 3:16:02 GMT -5
This thread is not-so-slowly going in to some uncomfortable territory, so I'm going to take Clash, Never a Meter Maid's revolutionary suggestion on how to handle these situations. I AM LIKE ALSO FIGHT Do you or Demented happen to have a spare mallet?
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Cranjis McBasketball
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Post by Cranjis McBasketball on Aug 21, 2015 3:50:27 GMT -5
I always thought 'manslaughter' sounded way worse than 'murder'. They should switch them. I think Seinfeld even did a routine on it. The Seinfeld episode "The Nap" opened with the bit you're thinking of You know that manslaughter is the least serious murder charge? -You don't say. -Manslaughter. Literally, the slaughter of a man. -Sounds brutal, doesn't it? -Heinous. Yet it's the most socially acceptable form of murder. So you think we should change the name. Yes, I do. How about "inadvertent life-ending"? "Unintentional snuff-out. " How about "l can't believe it's not murder"?
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Post by Clash, Never a Meter Maid on Aug 21, 2015 7:58:10 GMT -5
This thread is not-so-slowly going in to some uncomfortable territory, so I'm going to take Clash, Never a Meter Maid's revolutionary suggestion on how to handle these situations. I AM LIKE ALSO FIGHT Sorry, but I need to make a serious response here. She's a woman, period. If that's how she relates, that's how she should always be addressed. No more of this "but her equipment" stuff, people. And regardless of whether or not she serves any time or what type of prison she's assigned to, you're still misgendering her just simply by your continued referral to her as "Bruce".
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mcstoklasa
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Post by mcstoklasa on Aug 21, 2015 9:05:08 GMT -5
This thread is not-so-slowly going in to some uncomfortable territory, so I'm going to take Clash, Never a Meter Maid's revolutionary suggestion on how to handle these situations. I AM LIKE ALSO FIGHT Sorry, but I need to make a serious response here. She's a woman, period. If that's how she relates, that's how she should always be addressed. No more of this "but her equipment" stuff, people. And regardless of whether or not she serves any time or what type of prison she's assigned to, you're still misgendering her just simply by your continued referral to her as "Bruce". That's all well and good. It's just that the guy in this thread who works in prisons is saying where he thinks Jenner would be placed in a prison, regarding would it be a male or female prison. As the other dude said "This dude literally works around this stuff and isn't trying to spark a debate or argue any of that shit, just trying to answer the question of how she'd most likely be placed in the real world as it is now"
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Post by YAKMAN is ICHIBAN on Aug 21, 2015 9:23:16 GMT -5
Society is just far too permissive and politically correct nowadays...
Letting people change their names all willy nilly.
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Big Poppa Pumpkin
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Post by Big Poppa Pumpkin on Aug 21, 2015 9:41:12 GMT -5
Bruce is such a bad name unless you're like a giant hulking slab of meat, any child named Bruce deserves the right to change their name.
edit: No offence, dudes named Bruce
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Post by Clash, Never a Meter Maid on Aug 21, 2015 9:51:36 GMT -5
Society is just far too permissive and politically correct nowadays... Letting people change their names all willy nilly. You are joking with the "politically correct" thing, I hope.
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metylerca
King Koopa
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Don't be alarmed.
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Post by metylerca on Aug 21, 2015 10:01:29 GMT -5
Society is just far too permissive and politically correct nowadays... Letting people change their names all willy nilly. You are joking with the "politically correct" thing, I hope. To be fair, even if he was, the "America is offended by everything" is a bit much at times. But I'm sure he was joking, his sentence directly following said as much.
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Post by Clash, Never a Meter Maid on Aug 21, 2015 10:06:10 GMT -5
You are joking with the "politically correct" thing, I hope. To be fair, even if he was, the "America is offended by everything" is a bit much at times. But I'm sure he was joking, his sentence directly following said as much. I don't think it's a bit much at all. Considering the epidemic of violence transgender people are dealing with right now, even with the increased awareness it's hard for me to make light of the situation. They're dealing with a crisis, and I don't see how pointing that out and trying to help people understand the gravity of the situation is going anywhere near being overly offended. It's a problem that everyone should be offended by. It's not about being a "Tumblr SJW" or looking for hills to die on, or making up outrage to feel superior, or anything of the sort. It's just being decent and considerate of others.
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metylerca
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Post by metylerca on Aug 21, 2015 10:07:24 GMT -5
To be fair, even if he was, the "America is offended by everything" is a bit much at times. But I'm sure he was joking, his sentence directly following said as much. I don't think it's a bit much at all. Considering the epidemic of violence transgender people are dealing with right now, even with the increased awareness it's hard for me to make light of the situation. They're dealing with a crisis, and I don't see how pointing that out and trying to help people understand the gravity of the situation is going anywhere near being overly offended. It's a problem that everyone should be offended by. I wasn't referring to transgender social issues at all in my post.
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Post by Clash, Never a Meter Maid on Aug 21, 2015 10:24:50 GMT -5
I don't think it's a bit much at all. Considering the epidemic of violence transgender people are dealing with right now, even with the increased awareness it's hard for me to make light of the situation. They're dealing with a crisis, and I don't see how pointing that out and trying to help people understand the gravity of the situation is going anywhere near being overly offended. It's a problem that everyone should be offended by. I wasn't referring to transgender social issues at all in my post. Yeah, I admit I got pretty ranty in that last post. Sorry. I don't want to be Mr. No Fun or poo-poo all jokes here, I just don't want anyone here to feel like they're the odd one out, as we have users who do identify as trans.
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metylerca
King Koopa
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Don't be alarmed.
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Post by metylerca on Aug 21, 2015 10:33:52 GMT -5
I wasn't referring to transgender social issues at all in my post. Yeah, I admit I got pretty ranty in that last post. Sorry. I don't want to be Mr. No Fun or poo-poo all jokes here, I just don't want anyone here to feel like they're the odd one out, as we have users who do identify as trans. No worries, and I agree. We're a community after all.
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Post by Back to being Cenanuff on Aug 21, 2015 10:51:25 GMT -5
I'm curious to see how this fleshes out. Legally, wouldn't they have to go by Bruce, since that's what Jenner went by at the time?
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Post by Cyno on Aug 21, 2015 11:12:19 GMT -5
Didn't they put Chelsea Manning in a male prison or am I misremembering? Pretty messed up if they did. Military prison. They're being dicks about it. They're disallowing her long hair, hormones and last week they added a crime to her sheet for "expired toothpaste in the cell". I'm not even joking. Chelsea Manning was also already in prison before she came out as trans. And they treated her like absolute shit when she was still Bradley anyway. Like, she would have a really good case for a lawsuit on multiple grounds.
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