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Post by Kash Flagg on Aug 27, 2015 21:12:52 GMT -5
Not sure what happened there, but outside of a post or two (that weren't really bad) you guys have been discussing this civilly. I've put it back, but please remain civil.
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wisdomwizard
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Post by wisdomwizard on Aug 27, 2015 21:18:07 GMT -5
Shake & walk. It quickly became a "no one can agree on what they're all about" beyond the tagline "ethics in journalism" which even THAT was impossible to narrow in on because of the nonexistent structure of GG, that being anonymous, opaque, membership whose only requirement was to use the hashtag. When a "movement" has no real infrastructure or figurehead/representatives it becomes very clear that it's not a movement at all, just a lot of people yelling on hashtag with varying degrees of rationality. The opposing "movement" was equally ill-equipped from an organizational standpoint. And most of its more vocal figureheads that have emerged look to me like they're in it to- and I won't go into details because of the rules, but I think it fits- gain political points than anything else. When a movement essentially originates from a game designer's ex-boyfriend basically sneak dissing (that's that shit I don't like) on her, it's unsurprising that its goals wind up being loosely defined.
Gamer Gate was going to happen at some point, regardless of Zoe Quinn and Nathan Grayson. This has been brewing since at least when Jeff Gerstmann was let go from Gamespot for not giving Kane and Lynch a good review, because their publisher advertised on Gamespot's site.
Gamer Gate has defined their goals, they want journalists to disclose any personal relationships they might have with developers or publishers. They also don't want to be unfairly demonized because they don't see sexism or racism in certain games. They just want fair reviews for games they care about that won't be judged unfairly just because a game doesn't check off everything on their personal list.
I don't think such demands are unreasonable.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 27, 2015 21:19:05 GMT -5
It may not have official leaders but it hasn't needed them. They got a lot of sites not the least being Kotaku and Polygon to update their policies. They also got a lot of sponsors to pull away from Gawker. it doesn't have official leaders? every GG supporter I've seen on Twitter consider their leaders to be Christina Hoff Sommers and Milo Yiannopolous (both of whom I personally despise)
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Post by Red Impact on Aug 27, 2015 21:20:42 GMT -5
Why is Gamer Gate responsible for what some trolls do, and why exactly do they have to police them? They already had a group of people who report any harassment they see towards GG or Anti-GG. It's really ultimately a hashtag. No other hashtag like #BlackLivesMatter are taken as much to task when people identify themselves with them while interrupting Presidential candidates so why does Gamer Game? The movement you mentioned has been associated with every bad thing done during that time, even as people who identify with teh movement have spoken out against it. I don't know how you can say they're not taken to task for everything that has happened in the past year, but it is extremely inaccurate. Secondly, a group is responsible for identifying what they do and do not advocate. If people use a group's name to do things that the group doesn't condone, then the group is responsible for making sure that people know they don't condone it. If a group knows something is going on in their name and they don't do anything to stop it or condemn it, then they're implicitly condoning it. You don't get the benefits of a name without the responsiblity for what it means.
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Post by Clash, Never a Meter Maid on Aug 27, 2015 21:24:42 GMT -5
And most of its more vocal figureheads that have emerged look to me like they're in it to- and I won't go into details because of the rules, but I think it fits- gain political points than anything else. When a movement essentially originates from a game designer's ex-boyfriend basically sneak dissing (that's that shit I don't like) on her, it's unsurprising that its goals wind up being loosely defined.
Gamer Gate was going to happen at some point, regardless of Zoe Quinn and Nathan Grayson. This has been brewing since at least when Jeff Gerstmann was let go from Gamespot for not giving Kane and Lynch a good review, because their publisher advertised on Gamespot's site.
Gamer Gate has defined their goals, they want journalists to disclose any personal relationships they might have with developers or publishers. They also don't want to be unfairly demonized because they don't see sexism or racism in certain games. They just want fair reviews for games they care about that won't be judged unfairly just because a game doesn't check off everything on their personal list.
I don't think such demands are unreasonable.
And they failed miserably, because the general public now mostly associates them with the toxic elements, regardless of how big they actually are.
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wisdomwizard
King Koopa
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Watching you.
Posts: 11,087
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Post by wisdomwizard on Aug 27, 2015 21:25:42 GMT -5
It may not have official leaders but it hasn't needed them. They got a lot of sites not the least being Kotaku and Polygon to update their policies. They also got a lot of sponsors to pull away from Gawker. it doesn't have official leaders? every GG supporter I've seen on Twitter consider their leaders to be Christina Hoff Sommers and Milo Yiannopolous (both of whom I personally despise)
They might retweet them a lot or agree with what they say, but there are no leaders in the group. Everyone is the leader which a good part of why they've managed to stay around so long.
I won't go into Milo, as he's affiliated with Brietbart and we don't need to derail this into talking about that site, but I don't see anything wrong with Sommers. She's a classy and nice lady from what I've seen of her. She hasn't done anything morally wrong I know of so I can't see why some would despise her so much other than for disagreeing with her. *shrugs*
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wisdomwizard
King Koopa
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Watching you.
Posts: 11,087
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Post by wisdomwizard on Aug 27, 2015 21:29:01 GMT -5
Gamer Gate was going to happen at some point, regardless of Zoe Quinn and Nathan Grayson. This has been brewing since at least when Jeff Gerstmann was let go from Gamespot for not giving Kane and Lynch a good review, because their publisher advertised on Gamespot's site.
Gamer Gate has defined their goals, they want journalists to disclose any personal relationships they might have with developers or publishers. They also don't want to be unfairly demonized because they don't see sexism or racism in certain games. They just want fair reviews for games they care about that won't be judged unfairly just because a game doesn't check off everything on their personal list.
I don't think such demands are unreasonable.
And they failed miserably, because the general public now mostly associates them with the toxic elements, regardless of how big they actually are.
No they didn't. And no, it's not the general public but the mainstream media that associates them with that. Of course, it being the media of course they're going to against what GG does becaue they fear if they succeed in the corrupt game reporters getting fired that Mediagate may not be too far behind.
Really, the general public doesn't know about it like with Zaq Buzkill's reaction.
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Post by Red Impact on Aug 27, 2015 21:31:17 GMT -5
And they failed miserably, because the general public now mostly associates them with the toxic elements, regardless of how big they actually are.
No they didn't. And no, it's not the general public but the mainstream media that associates them with that. Of course, it being the media of course they're going to against what GG does becaue they fear if they succeed in the corrupt game reporters getting fired that Mediagate may not be too far behind.
Really, the general public doesn't know about it like with Zaq Buzkill's reaction.
You are greatly overstating how much the mainstream media cares about videogame reviews, which falls somewhere between less than nothing and not at all.
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Demented
Bill S. Preston, Esq.
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What am I doing here?
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Post by Demented on Aug 27, 2015 21:33:04 GMT -5
I never really saw it as anything but an awful and childish hate spree under the guise of ETHICS IN VIDYA GAEM JOURNALISM. When I start my crusade to get all penguins a punch in the face, it's gonna be a campaign against ethics in food labeling. PenguinGate ain't got nothing on PuddinGate.
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Blindkarevik
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Post by Blindkarevik on Aug 27, 2015 21:37:26 GMT -5
This post is mostly for my own benefit, so I am not tempted to post again.
I will just say, I have strong, negative opinions on Anita Sarkeesian.
And with that, I will calmly and quietly exit this thread.
yay.
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Post by Clash, Never a Meter Maid on Aug 27, 2015 21:38:35 GMT -5
No they didn't. And no, it's not the general public but the mainstream media that associates them with that. Of course, it being the media of course they're going to against what GG does becaue they fear if they succeed in the corrupt game reporters getting fired that Mediagate may not be too far behind.
Really, the general public doesn't know about it like with Zaq Buzkill's reaction.
You are greatly overstating how much the mainstream media cares about videogame reviews, which falls somewhere between less than nothing and not at all. Exactly. Gender issues are a far bigger priority to most people and the national media than game journalism, and that's why those controversies get the focus.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 27, 2015 21:38:20 GMT -5
It may not have official leaders but it hasn't needed them. They got a lot of sites not the least being Kotaku and Polygon to update their policies. They also got a lot of sponsors to pull away from Gawker. it doesn't have official leaders? every GG supporter I've seen on Twitter consider their leaders to be Christina Hoff Sommers and Milo Yiannopolous (both of whom I personally despise) Just because people talk about them or agree with them, doesn't automatically make them the leader of something. If that was the case, then Todd would be the leader of the wrestling fandom
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wisdomwizard
King Koopa
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Watching you.
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Post by wisdomwizard on Aug 27, 2015 21:39:54 GMT -5
Just to clarify, I'm not "in" GG. I haven't even used my Twitter account in likely a couple years. I don't really like Twitter much. As I said before, I myself almost became anti-GG. But then I changed my mind simply by searching GG in Twitter's search bar
I was dismayed at the amount of people there were over there in it getting called names when they simply asked simple questions. There's just way too much guilt by association going around.
No they didn't. And no, it's not the general public but the mainstream media that associates them with that. Of course, it being the media of course they're going to against what GG does becaue they fear if they succeed in the corrupt game reporters getting fired that Mediagate may not be too far behind.
Really, the general public doesn't know about it like with Zaq Buzkill's reaction.
You are greatly overstating how much the mainstream media cares about videogame reviews, which falls somewhere between less than nothing and not at all.
Oh no? Awfully convenient they smeared GG without a second thought last year. Funny enough, if the amount of dislikes are any indication on the hitpiece ABC News ran about them, the general public don't seem to buy GG being a harassment group.
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tenshi
Patti Mayonnaise
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Posts: 33,990
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Post by tenshi on Aug 27, 2015 21:46:39 GMT -5
I still don't know how one man's salty rant about his ex girlfriend somehow evolved into sexism issues in the gaming industries. How come the first two people involved didn't sit down and talk things through before this blew out of proportion?
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Post by Clash, Never a Meter Maid on Aug 27, 2015 21:47:24 GMT -5
You are greatly overstating how much the mainstream media cares about videogame reviews, which falls somewhere between less than nothing and not at all.
Oh no? Awfully convenient they smeared GG without a second thought last year. Funny enough, if the amount of dislikes are any indication on the hitpiece ABC News ran about them, the general public don't seem to buy GG being a harassment group.
I wouldn't call that a "smear" so much as a typical report on a fringe group that most networks would run. And considering that GamerGaters have a tendency to spam-click dislike buttons on anything that portrays them in a less-than-positive light, it's not exactly a wide public condemnation against a long respected news company.
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Post by Red Impact on Aug 27, 2015 21:52:44 GMT -5
You are greatly overstating how much the mainstream media cares about videogame reviews, which falls somewhere between less than nothing and not at all.
Oh no? Awfully convenient they smeared GG without a second thought last year. Funny enough, if the amount of dislikes are any indication on the hitpiece ABC News ran about them, the general public don't seem to buy GG being a harassment group.
If by convenient you mean "It was getting internet buzz so they knew they could fill space with it" then yes, it was convenient. Because that's all it was. They wrote a story because it was a topic du jour to fill space, then moved on because that's how the media work. I used to be in it, I know how things tend to go. I wrote hundreds of stories, I had any deep felings about the topics I wrote on maybe twice. They do not deeply care about everything they reported on, or even 1% of it. To you, that GG story seemed to be an important event, to them, it was a weekday. Topics du jour come up with such blinding frequency that even if they wanted to care more about "ethics in games journalism," it'd be impossible because there are only a finite number of shits to give and most of them are spent are far more important topics (coming from a guy who used to be a journalist). So no, they do not care, they are not quivering over some niche internet review sites changing their policies because some people complained enough. It was a grain of sand on a beach to them. You really overestimate how much ABC news reporters, or the ABC news network, cares about internet harassment of feminists. As for number of likes or dislikes, if internet buzz was any real indicator of what the "general public" thought of something, then Ron Paul would be president and Snakes on a Plane would be the highest grossing movie of all time.
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Dub H
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Post by Dub H on Aug 27, 2015 21:52:46 GMT -5
I still don't know how one man's salty rant about his ex girlfriend somehow evolved into sexism issues in the gaming industries. How come the first two people involved didn't sit down and talk things through before this blew out of proportion? i THINK that the boyfriend tried to talk to her before the salty rant.But this is all unrelated. The thing that sparked the sexism is because she was sleeping with journalists Some people say this was a reason to attack a woman,other say it really put over hoe corrupted it truly is
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Post by Cyno on Aug 27, 2015 21:55:53 GMT -5
Honestly that ex-boyfriend came off like a complete loser creepo. It spiraled beyond what even he thought would happen, but he isn't the first scumbag to slut-shame his ex and he won't be the last.
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wisdomwizard
King Koopa
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Watching you.
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Post by wisdomwizard on Aug 27, 2015 21:58:32 GMT -5
Oh no? Awfully convenient they smeared GG without a second thought last year. Funny enough, if the amount of dislikes are any indication on the hitpiece ABC News ran about them, the general public don't seem to buy GG being a harassment group.
I wouldn't call that a "smear" so much as a typical report on a fringe group that most networks would run. And considering that GamerGaters have a tendency to spam-click dislike buttons on anything that portrays them in a less-than-positive light, it's not exactly a wide public condemnation against a long respected news company.
It was a smear, they kept tying GG into the harassment of Quinn and Srakeesian when there has still been no evidence to this day that anyone involved with them did it.
As for your point, do you know that for sure? Is there really any proof they did with ABC's video? Because I should mention ABC got in a little hot water with people when they inexplicitly started deleting people's comments.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 27, 2015 21:58:48 GMT -5
I still don't know how one man's salty rant about his ex girlfriend somehow evolved into sexism issues in the gaming industries. How come the first two people involved didn't sit down and talk things through before this blew out of proportion? i THINK that the boyfriend tried to talk to her before the salty rant.But this is all unrelated. The thing that sparked the sexism is because she was sleeping with journalists and as it turned out, she actually wasn't.
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