Jeff Mangum PI
Hank Scorpio
11 herbs and spices for the rest of eternity; Is Number Two. Number Two!
The 2nd Coming
Posts: 6,957
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Post by Jeff Mangum PI on Sept 25, 2015 13:22:02 GMT -5
We all know the man that can save these ratings. Comes in and beats John Cena on his debut, loses to him for the next three ppvs after, two months later is repackaged as Kimchi Yamaguchi-san the dancing karate fighter. Just a bit of fixing for accuracy.
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Post by Drillbit Taylor on Sept 25, 2015 13:23:17 GMT -5
Comes in and beats John Cena on his debut, loses to him for the next three ppvs after, two months later is repackaged as Kimchi Yamaguchi-san the dancing karate fighter. Just a bit of fixing for accuracy. You forgot his theme song www.youtube.com/watch?v=OdNaorgrS_0
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Post by Magic knows Black Lives Matter on Sept 25, 2015 13:25:54 GMT -5
If Sheamus seriously becomes WWE champion, I might just vomit in pure anger.
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Woo
Hank Scorpio
Posts: 5,312
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Post by Woo on Sept 25, 2015 13:30:15 GMT -5
Blue Pants should be signed. She's your second most over female in NXT. That's just common sense. Forget jobbers and just use local wrestling talent to take the pins. If two wrestlers are fighting at the PPV they should not have a match togther until then. The Austin/HHH angle leading to No Way Out 2001 where they couldn't touch eachother until then was perfect as the crowd were red hot for when they can finally do battle. Now we have people trading back wins every week with less and less returns. Hit Girl said it a while back but the Shield brought a sense of danger and chaos to Raw that we haven't had since. Don't go full Russo but there needs to be OMG moments every week. I agree with that but I don't agree with the return to 1990 Superstars of Wrestling style. THAT will kill ratings. I don't mean all the time, but similar to what they had Ryback doing when he first arrived. Just anything to stop your big names losing all the time. I think a lot of the problem is that they feel everybody has to wrestle on every show when they don't. If say Stardust is feuding with Neville then have Neville compete against someone different and have Stardust just cut a promo that week. Then maybe the week after reverse that or perhaps have a backstage attack. Anything other than the constant boring rematches and trading back wins.
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Rican
Bill S. Preston, Esq.
July 17, 2011 - HHHe called it
Posts: 16,508
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Post by Rican on Sept 25, 2015 13:34:01 GMT -5
If Raw remains in their current variety show format, what's the incentive to watch? There are no consequences to any storylines week to week, and with the company itself telling the viewers at home that the show is fake, it really makes the entire process of watching a three hour show essentially pointless. Once the people who grew up with the WWF stop watching, the company is screwed. It won't be for a while but it will happen eventually. Wrestling hasn't attracted newer fans in years, and wrestling being cyclical is not based on reality but moreso coincidences. I think about this every time they being out an Attitude Era relic. Most of the matches allegedly planned for Wrestlemania involve part timers. What's the plan when those guys just can't go anymore? They really need to focus on building people up.
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Madagascar Fred
El Dandy
TAFKA roidzilla and SUFFERIN' SUCCOTASH SON!
Posts: 8,784
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Post by Madagascar Fred on Sept 25, 2015 13:36:11 GMT -5
Blue Pants should be signed. She's your second most over female in NXT. That's just common sense. Forget jobbers and just use local wrestling talent to take the pins. If two wrestlers are fighting at the PPV they should not have a match togther until then. The Austin/HHH angle leading to No Way Out 2001 where they couldn't touch eachother until then was perfect as the crowd were red hot for when they can finally do battle. Now we have people trading back wins every week with less and less returns. Hit Girl said it a while back but the Shield brought a sense of danger and chaos to Raw that we haven't had since. Don't go full Russo but there needs to be OMG moments every week. I agree with that but I don't agree with the return to 1990 Superstars of Wrestling style. THAT will kill ratings. comprehend much? TWO squash matches per episode is what I wrote. two out of at least six (usually more) RAW matches isn't that much Why do you always have to exaggerate? Troll mode on?
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Post by idislikeeverything on Sept 25, 2015 13:52:21 GMT -5
I agree with that but I don't agree with the return to 1990 Superstars of Wrestling style. THAT will kill ratings. comprehend much? TWO squash matches per episode is what I wrote. two out of at least six (usually more) RAW matches isn't that much Why do you always have to exaggerate? Troll mode on? I didn't even reply to you. I didn't even see your message. Wind your neck in.
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Post by A Platypus Rave on Sept 25, 2015 14:18:59 GMT -5
you know what might help...
actually announcing things that will happen the next week... announce a few matches and the main event.
So they don't come off as being lucky that 2 people start the show angry with each other... otherwise nothing'd happen.
Also building someone up to beat Seth because as of right now they really haven't.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
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Post by Deleted on Sept 25, 2015 14:29:41 GMT -5
you know what might help... actually announcing things that will happen the next week... announce a few matches and the main event. So they don't come off as being lucky that 2 people start the show angry with each other... otherwise nothing'd happen. Also building someone up to beat Seth because as of right now they really haven't. Hey, Dean Ambrose beat Seth Rollins last night! He's obviously the #1 contender and the man to do it! Oh wait, it was on Smackdown. And they already did that a few months ago.
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Post by cabbageboy on Sept 25, 2015 14:34:15 GMT -5
I don't think it can be stated enough that WWE needs an over top babyface. The Reigns rejection really threw them for a loop I think. Despite obvious signs that he was a year away from being a serious main eventer they threw him into that spot at the Rumble, and it bombed horribly. We're finally seeing the effects of CM Punk quitting and Daniel Bryan being hurt all the time. And that isn't even getting into Cena's generally stale act.
That's the problem with the Rollins push. He just feels like a transition champion they tossed the belt on until they could think of something else, but they can't think of something else. It also doesn't help that from Aug. 2014 until March of this year we had to put up with Lesnar not even being on shows despite being champion, and there was quite literally no legit pay off to any of it. No one beat him decisively to take the title. He put no one over. In the process they went from a champion that never showed up to one that is constantly all over TV.
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Post by CATCH_US IS the Conversation on Sept 25, 2015 14:47:32 GMT -5
I think the only issue I can see with bringing back jobber matches is that they'd have to, almost assuredly, hire new people just to be cannon fodder. "But Jess, you strange Canadian, what about the jobbers we have now, like Ryder or Fandango or Cesaro Alex Riley?" Well, Timmy, here's the thing... we've already seen Ryder, Fandango, and Sting Adam Rose get mudholes stomped in their asses by the current midcarders, and we're trying to avoid repetitive horse shit right now. And before you ask, Timmy, no, we can't make those guys the new midcard to feed on the jobbers, because even if Zack Ryder went on a Cena-tier winning streak, nobody is going to believe he's going to win a match against the future upper-midcarders. Although they could potentially solve a problem by merging the IC and US Titles, have it actually be the Tier 2 belt, and revive the TV Title for the midcard. That way, you can have Ryder and Big Show Fandango feud for a belt, while the IC title becomes something for the upper-midcard to chase whenever they're not being pushed into the main event to feud with Big Show, who I would make the new World Heavyweight champion. We all love Big Show title runs, right? They don't have to hire new people hen they have a bunch of guys down in NXT they can bring up sporadically to fill those spots. Many of the guys in NXT like Blake and Murphy, Dawson and Wilder, or Jason Jordan who have some measure of credibility but aren't all that over as personalities can be brought up to fill enhancement roles. Guys like Ryder, Fandango and Riley guys aren't on TV enough to be "repetitive horse shit". Zack Ryder doesn't need to be "LolCenawins" pushed, but having him take competitive losses to someone like The Miz (despite Miz being demoted to a joke character) can help raise his stock Jack Swagger, with his size and skillset SHOULD be the "guy who can go toe to toe with upper midcarders but always loses" guy, yet he's rarely on TV. Don't you think Swagger vs. Big Show would be better than feeding someone with greater potential like Cesaro?
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Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
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Post by Deleted on Sept 25, 2015 14:49:54 GMT -5
you know what might help... actually announcing things that will happen the next week... announce a few matches and the main event. So they don't come off as being lucky that 2 people start the show angry with each other... otherwise nothing'd happen. Also building someone up to beat Seth because as of right now they really haven't. True. A good sign of just how utterly devoid of thought they are on trying to sell the show is I've been seeing ads for Raw next week that are just, "Look how scary Kane is!"
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riseofsetian1981
King Koopa
"I met him fifteen years ago. I was told there was nothing left."
Posts: 10,323
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Post by riseofsetian1981 on Sept 25, 2015 14:58:47 GMT -5
Here's the problem. There isn't any true dichotomy within the spectrum of the wrestling characters. It seems the majority of the faces act like heels, the heels aren't really doing anything disgusting, there's no real interaction between the wrestler and the audience. In the 80's, 90's, and even during the Attitude Era you still had a reason and could tell the difference between the face, heel, and tweener.
You don't have any interesting exciting characters like you used to. That's why I feel wrestlers like Hogan, Shawn, Savage, Perfect, Austin, Rock, Foley, Bret, Rude, Warrior, etc, etc don't get enough credit for how they portrayed their characters. They made them believable and you either wanted to see them win or lose. There isn't any of that passion within the product or from the fans anymore. Why? Because the WWE has conditioned the audience in attendance and at home that "Okay, you did something great now. But we're not going to follow up on it or continue to build the character." Thus causing a hot angle/feud to sputter and die horribly.
They truly need to start building new faces, heels, and show a clear distinct difference between the two alignments. Have the heels start interacting with the audience, insult them, provoke them, and who cares about the sponsors? Just start pushing the envelope and give the fans a reason to care. Start building guys like Ambrose, Cesaro, Rusev, Ziggler, and Owens as the future. Start dialing back on Cena, Show, and Kane. Start utilizing guys like a Daniel Bryan or Rollins by showcasing their true talent.
Build a better and stronger mid-card division, build a legitimate tag team division, and if need be bring back the cruiserweight division. Get rid of the Hollywood soap opera writers and have the wrestlers/agents book and write the stories.
And bring back the illusion of the wrestlers. Seeing Stephanie, Hunter, Ziggler, Bray Wyatt, Bellas, and Miz do commercials for Make-A-Wish and other charities just kills the mystique of the character. They're heels for a reason. Stop showing them out of character and create the perception that these individuals are horrible people. I could be wrong but I don't recall seeing wrestlers like Hogan, Rude, Flair, DiBiase, and Perfect get advertised doing Make-A-Wish or other charities. Start protecting the characters, create unique and exciting stories, and stop insulting the intelligent of the fans in attendance and the ones who watch it at home.
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Post by Hit Girl on Sept 25, 2015 15:19:33 GMT -5
Wrestler X is in a feud with Wrestler Y
Neither are outright heels or faces, so the audience has no idea who they are supposed to support.
Both guys have already wrestled each other at least a dozen times over the ten years they've been with the company
Week 1 - X confronts Y in a backstage interview
Week 2 - Y confronts X in a backstage interview
Week 3 - Y and X brawl with each other on Miz TV
Week 4 - The PPV. X beats Y, but Y attacks X after the match
Week 5 - Y demands a rematch
Week 6 - X and two partners face Y and two partners in a six man
Week 7 - X and Y do a contract signing. A table is flipped. Y leaves X laying out in the middle of the ring
Week 8 - X beats Y again at the PPV. The feud is over
Week 9 - Y gets a title shot against Z. X is jobbed out in a two minute throwaway match during which the announcers talk about Serena Williams' boyfriend.
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Hypnosis
T
Posts: 99,666
Member is Online
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Post by Hypnosis on Sept 25, 2015 15:31:51 GMT -5
Wrestler X is in a feud with Wrestler Y Neither are outright heels or faces, so the audience has no idea who they are supposed to support. Both guys have already wrestled each other at least a dozen times over the ten years they've been with the company Week 1 - X confronts Y in a backstage interview Week 2 - Y confronts X in a backstage interview Week 3 - Y and X brawl with each other on Miz TV Week 4 - The PPV. X beats Y, but Y attacks X after the match Week 5 - Y demands a rematch Week 6 - X and two partners face Y and two partners in a six man Week 7 - X and Y do a contract signing. A table is flipped. Y leaves X laying out in the middle of the ring Week 8 - X beats Y again at the PPV. The feud is over Week 9 - Y gets a title shot against Z. X is jobbed out in a two minute throwaway match during which the announcers talk about Serena Williams' boyfriend. Cole wonders if X has a chance of beating Y in the rematch even though he just did at the last PPV.
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Woo
Hank Scorpio
Posts: 5,312
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Post by Woo on Sept 25, 2015 15:44:58 GMT -5
you know what might help... actually announcing things that will happen the next week... announce a few matches and the main event. So they don't come off as being lucky that 2 people start the show angry with each other... otherwise nothing'd happen. Also building someone up to beat Seth because as of right now they really haven't. I remember watching an NXT episode where someone stormed into Regal's office and demanded a match against someone else. Regal said that he will get his rematch, but he has already booked the other guy in a match that night. I was amazed by how competent they made Regal seem by actually booking a match. (I think it was Riley demanding a match with Owens.) You know what would be awesome? If they were self-aware of their stale booking and played up to it like when Teddy Long turned a tag team match into a fourway to audible gasps from fans worldwide. Say Rollins comes out and does the boring gloaty promo before he is jumped by Ambrose and they have to be seperated. HHH walks out and says that Ambrose will face Rollins in the main event before someone like Owens comes out and says "Wait, what?! I was booked to face Seth tonight! What is this I don't even."
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Post by Hit Girl on Sept 25, 2015 15:59:41 GMT -5
As it's been (correctly) stated, jobbers need to be brought back. A few should be held on RAW every week. It builds momentum, keeps stars away from each other, avoids oversaturation and repetition, and one-sided squashes are often quite entertaining. When I was a kid, I loved watching a star utterly kill some poor hapless jabroni. It also has the advantage of avoiding commercial interruptions which often kill the flow of a match. A five minute squash can play out without a break. You even have time for the star to do a post-match promo where he talks shit about his next star opponent at the PPV.
You might even get lucky and find a jobber who develops a cult following like Blue Pants. That's not a bad thing. There's no downside to it. Hell if they are talented enough, promote them from jobber to jobber-to-the-stars. If they keep building support, promote them even further.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
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Post by Deleted on Sept 25, 2015 16:08:21 GMT -5
you know what might help... actually announcing things that will happen the next week... announce a few matches and the main event. So they don't come off as being lucky that 2 people start the show angry with each other... otherwise nothing'd happen. Also building someone up to beat Seth because as of right now they really haven't. I remember watching an NXT episode where someone stormed into Regal's office and demanded a match against someone else. Regal said that he will get his rematch, but he has already booked the other guy in a match that night. I was amazed by how competent they made Regal seem by actually booking a match. (I think it was Riley demanding a match with Owens.) You know what would be awesome? If they were self-aware of their stale booking and played up to it like when Teddy Long turned a tag team match into a fourway to audible gasps from fans worldwide. Say Rollins comes out and does the boring gloaty promo before he is jumped by Ambrose and they have to be seperated. HHH walks out and says that Ambrose will face Rollins in the main event before someone like Owens comes out and says "Wait, what?! I was booked to face Seth tonight! What is this I don't even." Related to that, I really hate how in wrestling everything just happens to fall neatly among alignment lines. Why doesn't whoever's in charge ever want to have one of the pointless filler matches of the night be, I dunno, Cesaro vs. Ryback or Kofi vs. Miz? The crowd pretty much just cheers everybody these days anyway, so it's not like they'd just be sitting on their hands for a heel vs. heel match and it'd effectively double the amount of matches available to them.
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Woo
Hank Scorpio
Posts: 5,312
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Post by Woo on Sept 25, 2015 17:02:29 GMT -5
As it's been (correctly) stated, jobbers need to be brought back. A few should be held on RAW every week. It builds momentum, keeps stars away from each other, avoids oversaturation and repetition, and one-sided squashes are often quite entertaining. When I was a kid, I loved watching a star utterly kill some poor hapless jabroni. It also has the advantage of avoiding commercial interruptions which often kill the flow of a match. A five minute squash can play out without a break. You even have time for the star to do a post-match promo where he talks shit about his next star opponent at the PPV. You might even get lucky and find a jobber who develops a cult following like Blue Pants. That's not a bad thing. There's no downside to it. Hell if they are talented enough, promote them from jobber to jobber-to-the-stars. If they keep building support, promote them even further. I remember loving seeing Taka and Funaki or Too Cool get killed in singles matches. But then I thought why not have the tag teams be those guys? Jimmy and Jey are one of the best tag teams in the WWE, but as single wrestlers why can't one of them or one of the Primetime Players lose to say Big Show or a Kane if they insist on pushing those lugs? Honestly they need to establish that a singles wrestler is better in singles match than a tag team specialist but a make shift team like John Cena and Randy Orton can not be a team like the Lucha Dragons, the Usos or the New Day in a tag match.
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Post by Nickybojelais on Sept 25, 2015 20:26:46 GMT -5
you know what might help... actually announcing things that will happen the next week... announce a few matches and the main event. So they don't come off as being lucky that 2 people start the show angry with each other... otherwise nothing'd happen. Also building someone up to beat Seth because as of right now they really haven't. I'd love to see this done more. I was reminded about just how simple, yet effective this is when I watched the 1993 Raws on the network. One example went something like this Raw 1 - Money Inc pay the Beverley brothers to weaken the Steiner Brothers as Money Inc as the Steiners are number one contenders for Money Inc's tag titles. Steiners v Beverleys was announced for the following week Raw 2 - Beverley Brothers lose to the Steiners with Money Inc at ringside. Money Inc & Beverley brothers get into a confrontation. Announced for next weeks Raw IRS & Blake Beverley vs Steiner Brothers Raw 3 - Steiners beat IRS & Blake Beverley after miscommunication between the heel team. Later in the show Money Inc issues a challenge to the Beverley Brothers next week on Raw. Raw 4 - Money Inc face the Beverley Brothers Ok it's not the biggest money making feud, but it was really effective how it built week to week and gave you a hook to watch the next week and generated 4 weeks worth of storyline. Also note how no match been repeated over the course of that month. In todays WWE you'd have seen the same match on at least 3 of those 4 Raw episodes! Oh yeah, and you still haven't burned through your PPV calibre Steiners vs Money Inc match yet either.
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