|
Post by "Cane Dewey" Johnson on Jun 4, 2017 2:45:28 GMT -5
Doesn't Snoke actually say something to the effect of "go save Kylo Ren, I have to complete his training"? Which, were we to retroactively re-read the opening of TFA in which he stops a blaster bolt, might mean that Ren's power comes from his natural ability than any actual training? Which would make sense, since Ben Solo is the grandson of Anakin Skywalker, the guy who was allegedly created ex nihilo out of the Force.
(it also begs the question why Snoke would send a half-cocked Force user out into the world to do his bidding when Ren is only partially competent in his powers and abilities, but hey.)
|
|
|
Post by A Platypus Rave on Jun 4, 2017 2:56:57 GMT -5
Doesn't Snoke actually say something to the effect of "go save Kylo Ren, I have to complete his training"? Which, were we to retroactively re-read the opening of TFA in which he stops a blaster bolt, might mean that Ren's power comes from his natural ability than any actual training? Which would make sense, since Ben Solo is the grandson of Anakin Skywalker, the guy who was allegedly created ex nihilo out of the Force. (it also begs the question why Snoke would send a half-cocked Force user out into the world to do his bidding when Ren is only partially competent in his powers and abilities, but hey.) He does say it's time to complete his training. the big point of Kylo Ren's character is that he is not fully trained, he's a blunt instrument relying solely on raw power. Instead of Vader or Palpatine that honed their emotions into a fine tuned weapon.
|
|
|
Post by Ryback on a Pole! on Jun 4, 2017 3:25:12 GMT -5
That's a character development fallacy. Characters don't require a crippling or obvious weakness in order to be considered well-developed or well-rounded. And Rey's strengths, as of now, aren't that great of strengths. She's competent at a lot and has a lot of potential for greatness but it's nowhere near met yet. Besides a lot of Luke's weaknesses and Anakin's weaknesses didn't really manifest themselves until the later movies where they had to learn to either overcome them (Luke) or succumb to them (Anakin). There's two movies for them to manifest in Rey. Her character arc is in its infancy. Luke and Anakin's weaknesses were evident from the beginning. Luke shows from the start that he's rash and doesn't listen to others in the first movie. Obi-Wan told them to stay whilst he turned off the power, Luke insisted on going to rescue Leia which alerted the entire Death Star to their presence and almost cocked up the escape. Anakin's personality/mental weaknesses were evident in the first movie with that scene with Yoda refusing to train him. Rey showed no weaknesses whatsoever in the movie and showed nothing that she wasn't skilled at. I'm yet to get an answer (unless I've missed it) as to what her actual weakness is? What is she not good at. What are her flaws?
|
|
|
Post by Ryback on a Pole! on Jun 4, 2017 3:37:53 GMT -5
She can't be a Mary Sue if her exceptional abilities are 1- piloting, 2- shooting, 3- fixing stuff, and 4- being strong with the Force, which is hardly unique in Star Wars. At the most, she's comparable to Luke (which may be important to the plot anyway), and no one calls him a male Mary Sue. Luke's only ace skills in the first movie were been a skilled pilot, which has an explanation since it's mentioned he spent time flying on Tatooine ("I'm not such a bad pilot myself" and the conversation before and during the attack on the Death Star were he mentions it's like Begger's Canyon backhome and the target isn't much different than the size of an animal he used to blast back home). Blaster skills, he nails two or three Stormtroopers after dozens of shots. He's hardly a Dead Eye. He's capable enough to fix droids and moisture evaporators but beyond that, it's not like he's walking into a new ship and knowing more about it than the actual owner. The force he wouldn't have done it without Obi-Wan guiding him. Without Obi-Wan the shot would have probably missed. Blowing up the Death Star was as much Obi-Wan as it was Luke. Then of course there's the fact he actually shows and has weaknesses and flaws. Han doesn't like him much straight away, it's not until they go through the Death Star that they become friends (As opposed to Rey where everybody likes her immediately). He's shown straight away to be a bit foolish (getting tricked by R2 into taking off the restraints), rash (speeding off after R2 and nearly getting killed, going to rescue Leia and alerting the whole Death Star to their presence) and not listening much to others. What are Rey's weaknesses, for the third time of asking? I'm also disappointed that you played the "nobody would criticise Rey is she was male" card. That's a low-blow. Plenty of male characters get criticised and plenty of female characters get praised. Hermione for example never gets any flack or criticism for been overpowered becauses she has weaknesses and flaws that make her a believeable character (struggling with Patronuses, inability to see things from others points of view, being dismissive of others beliefs, a tendency to panic in stressful situations etc). Katniss is another strong, skilled, female character who has enough weaknesses to avoid been too perfect (Her only major skill is with a bow and arrow, she sucks at healing people, is physically short and thin so no good in hand-to-hand combat, takes foolish risks, is easily manipulated by others and has about as much charm as a dead slug which fails to get people on her side). She's a strong but flawed character.
|
|
|
Post by Hit Girl on Jun 4, 2017 11:41:50 GMT -5
A skilled pilot at shooting creatures for leisure. Massively different from an assault on a heavily armed superweapon defended by military-trained pilots.
Dude, even Princess Leia can kill these guys. They aren't exactly difficult targets.
I addressed this already. He hasn't been the owner for decades, it's not a new ship and it's been sitting on her planet for ages owned by a guy she regularly interacts with and trades the same kind of junk he could very well have been retrofitting the ship with, because the Falcon is known for being easily modified.
Same as Rey's Force instincts.
The fact he started off as annoying and impulsive isn't a "weakness", it's the beginning of an "arc"
It's a flawed question, because it isn't being asked of, as I said, Finn or Poe.
It's not a low blow, it's a legitimate recognition of Rey being singled out and the same standards not being applied to other comparable male characters in the same film.
|
|
|
Post by Cyno on Jun 4, 2017 11:46:50 GMT -5
You're the one who introduced the "Mary Sue" term into this thread, which is used, more often than not, to unfairly criticize female characters where similar traits would be ignored or praised in their male counterparts. Reap what you sow.
|
|
|
Post by Alice Syndrome on Jun 4, 2017 12:13:37 GMT -5
I thought it was great.
|
|
AFN: Judge Shred
Bill S. Preston, Esq.
Wanted to change his doohicky.
Member of The Bluetista Buyers Club
Posts: 18,221
|
Post by AFN: Judge Shred on Jun 4, 2017 12:56:21 GMT -5
Rey's weaknesses are he desire to go back to Jakku no matter what because she is waiting for parents who will never come. Her isolation has made her so she has a hard time properly interacting with people. Her emotions are so bottled up she runs from them rather than confront them (lightsaber scene) and that put her in harms way and got her captured.
Now I shall wait to be told I am wrong and nothing here is a weakness.
|
|