Star Wars: The Last Jedi Post-Viewing and Spoiler Thread

[Stu]

The film debuts Thursday night in the United States, but it's showing earlier in other countries. This thread is here for people to discuss the film after they watch it. Spoiler tags are unnecessary and nothing is off limits. Just remember to keep all discussion here if you don't want to deal with the hassle of adding spoiler tags. You can still discuss the film in the main thread, but spoiler tags will be absolutely necessary.

Let this also be a warning to those who haven't seen the film but still wander into this thread. Read the comments at your own risk. You have been warned.

[Deleted]

Reading the spoilers, it makes me hate Disney Star Wars even more. Its too much like a John Cena feud.

So, apparently, both Snoke & Captain Phasma die in this movie.

You know... This IS how Disney would have written Empire Strikes Back; the heroes brood, but ultimately triumph, and the villains eat astronomical losses, as both their spiritual guide & military leader perish. Yeah, Kylo is still alive, but they sure hate the idea of, you know, the villains WINNING?

Why have Episode IX if the First Order has been soundly defeated? There's no stakes anymore. The Resistance easily destroyed the new rebel alliance here.

People hate on the prequels all they want, but the CIS at its worst was given a better push.

[andrew8798]

And if you believe the spoilers

At least you won't have to worry about all this theories on Rey's parents

[Fade is a CodyCryBaby]

Reading the spoilers blew my mind..I'm actually glad I did because all of that sounds tough to digest upon viewing with no prior knowledge.

Snoke getting murked is f***ing shocking. All that build up and speculation to basically being diposeable and with little backstory.

The Leia space scene and the Luke projection thing sound insane too...Seems so over the top, that Im either gonna like it or hate it. Depends on the excecution.

On the bright side, there's tons I'm stoked to see: Rylo(!!!!!!!!!!?!??!??). Marks performance. Yoda (!!!!!!!!) and the end fight scene sounds pretty f***ing dope.

This does make one wonder what in the sam hell theyre gonna do in episode IX. This film sounds so...conclusive. I've heard fans theorize they could just a few years ahead ..which might work, I guess.

I'm still excited. But reluctant...I had a feeling I was gonna love TFA despite reading spoilers beforehand..and now I'm highly skeptical. Even if it is Rian directing.

[andrew8798]

Still think Luke fans won't like what they did with his character

[Fade is a CodyCryBaby]

It's seemed to seriously polarize fans who've read that...but I mean, cmon. This is fiction. And the scene with him at the end has been described by many as badass/beautiful. So. There's hope.

[Mighty Attack Tribble]

Dec 13, 2017 0:29:35 GMT -5 @jdogindy said:

You know... This IS how Disney would have written Empire Strikes Back; the heroes brood, but ultimately triumph, and the villains eat astronomical losses, as both their spiritual guide & military leader perish. Yeah, Kylo is still alive, but they sure hate the idea of, you know, the villains WINNING?

Why have Episode IX if the First Order has been soundly defeated? There's no stakes anymore. The Resistance easily destroyed the new rebel alliance here.

Based on the spoilers I read, it's more of a Pyrrhic victory, at best. By the end the First Order has been given a huge blow, but the Resistance is more or less decimated, scattered to the wind, and their ultimate beacon of hope - Luke - is dead. They didn't so much win, as just avoid being massacred.

[cabbageboy]

You know, it seems like the main way these new ones can draw any sort of audience reaction and emotion is to just kill off your childhood heroes. But yeah a total inability to put any real heat on the heels in the new SW series really reminds me a lot of LOTR. Mind you, LOTR is significantly better than this but one problem I always had is that for all of the doom and gloom worries from the main characters, Sauron/Saruman and Co. never win anything of note the entire series. Sauron is defeated in the first 5 minutes, Saruman's army decimated at the end of Two Towers, then finally all of them destroyed in ROTK.

I think that is one reason I have always very slightly preferred The Two Towers to ROTK. With Towers I felt there was legit danger for our heroes, that they were up against completely insurmountable odds at Helms Deep. In ROTK and the Battle of Minas Tirith Gondor had at least some sort of decent sized army and the Rohan troops also arrived. After all, if 3 main guys, some old men, and young boys can hold their own against the orcs and eventually win after Gandalf and Co. arrive, why would these jobbers have any chance against an actual army?

Any way, with Star Wars I still don't even know who the First Order even ARE. What is the exact geopolitical situation in this universe? What are the First Order trying to do? Who is in charge of the Senate now? I dunno. It honestly just feels like Disney had some edict to just reuse the same Empire style uniforms and ships despite the Empire having been thoroughly defeated. Instead of being a dangerous, rogue group that is out to destroy a New Republic they really just seem like a bunch of punks that raided grandpa's closet for his old Empire uniform and bought the Emperor's junk ships and weapons at a police auction.

[Deleted]

Dec 13, 2017 4:07:03 GMT -5 Mighty Attack Tribble said:

Dec 13, 2017 0:29:35 GMT -5 @jdogindy said:

You know... This IS how Disney would have written Empire Strikes Back; the heroes brood, but ultimately triumph, and the villains eat astronomical losses, as both their spiritual guide & military leader perish. Yeah, Kylo is still alive, but they sure hate the idea of, you know, the villains WINNING?

Why have Episode IX if the First Order has been soundly defeated? There's no stakes anymore. The Resistance easily destroyed the new rebel alliance here.

Based on the spoilers I read, it's more of a Pyrrhic victory, at best. By the end the First Order has been given a huge blow, but the Resistance is more or less decimated, scattered to the wind, and their ultimate beacon of hope - Luke - is dead. They didn't so much win, as just avoid being massacred.

Eh, I still say the First Order comes off very pathetic here. If this truly was Empire, the Resistance would be reeling badly, but you also have the fear of the First Order now that they have the edge again.

Here... I don't feel it.

[Mighty Attack Tribble]

Dec 13, 2017 13:43:26 GMT -5 cabbageboy said:

Any way, with Star Wars I still don't even know who the First Order even ARE. What is the exact geopolitical situation in this universe? What are the First Order trying to do? Who is in charge of the Senate now? I dunno. It honestly just feels like Disney had some edict to just reuse the same Empire style uniforms and ships despite the Empire having been thoroughly defeated. Instead of being a dangerous, rogue group that is out to destroy a New Republic they really just seem like a bunch of punks that raided grandpa's closet for his old Empire uniform and bought the Emperor's junk ships and weapons at a police auction.

That's one thing I feel Disney have overcompensated for compared to Lucas. There was too much focus on the geopolitical situation in the prequels, and it bogged everything down.

In the sequel trilogy there is no mention of the geopolitical situation, only that there are good guys and bad guys, and if you want to really know about what's going on you have to read a series of novels leading up to Episode VII. Major exposition shouldn't be held back for supplemental material.

Though to answer your questions, post-ROTJ the Rebellion and the Empire negotiated a ceasefire. The New Republic undergoes disarmament, to which Leia objects, believing the remnants of the Empire will take advantage of it, so she creates her own private army and becomes estranged from the Republic. The Imperial remnants form the First Order and begin an aggressive expansion of their territory, and that's basically where things stand at the beginning of Episode VII.

In between VII and VIII the First Order take advantage of the power vacuum left by their wiping out of the senate and the collapse of the Republic, and are firmly in control of the galaxy, with the Resistance slowly being hounded to death.

[Fade is a CodyCryBaby]

As much as I hate the prequels, I agree with some that are saying: Prequels had a great story, but terrible excecution. While the new films story lacks, but has great excecution.

Looks like I'm going tomorrow at 10:30..I've been so hyped for this film cause of Mark and Rian and TFA...and I literally find myself nervous at my reaction.

[cabbageboy]

So basically the First Order are the jobber remnants of the old Empire then? Why are they the "First" Order then? They sound pretty clearly like the Second Order to me. As far as novels go, there is no way I'm tracking down a bunch of crap in order to make sense out of what should be explained literally in the first 5 minutes of the movie, or in the opening text. I could get past this baffling lack of context or exposition if I cared anything about the new characters, or if those characters had any actual depth or backstory to them either. But basically to me TFA told me nothing about the overall situation in the galaxy and also very little about the new characters (Rey, Finn, Poe, etc.). The entire basis for ANYONE caring about Rey is literally this semi mystery as to who her parents are and what her last name is, and we're supposed to simply roll with this. In the original we didn't yet know who Luke's father was (maybe Lucas himself didn't know?) but we at least knew who Luke was for the most part. We saw his Aunt and Uncle, we knew of his basic backstory, just not that Anakin = Vader. We didn't know a massive amount about Han Solo but we know he's a great pilot, a smuggler, and that he's heavily in debt to Jabba the Hutt. None of the new characters come off as anything other than cardboard cutouts. If there's ever a movie that was massively praised that I just didn't get the hype, it was TFA. I'd probably put it above TPM in the SW canon but not much else.

Lucas had a curious approach to the prequels. TPM is a very kiddie oriented flick with Jar Jar and young Anakin, yet it also has all of this dense plot with the Trade Federation's blockade and Palpatine orchestrating all of this stuff behind the scenes.

[Fade is a CodyCryBaby]

Dec 13, 2017 18:20:37 GMT -5 cabbageboy said:

So basically the First Order are the jobber remnants of the old Empire then? Why are they the "First" Order then? They sound pretty clearly like the Second Order to me. As far as novels go, there is no way I'm tracking down a bunch of crap in order to make sense out of what should be explained literally in the first 5 minutes of the movie, or in the opening text. I could get past this baffling lack of context or exposition if I cared anything about the new characters, or if those characters had any actual depth or backstory to them either. But basically to me TFA told me nothing about the overall situation in the galaxy and also very little about the new characters (Rey, Finn, Poe, etc.). The entire basis for ANYONE caring about Rey is literally this semi mystery as to who her parents are and what her last name is, and we're supposed to simply roll with this. In the original we didn't yet know who Luke's father was (maybe Lucas himself didn't know?) but we at least knew who Luke was for the most part. We saw his Aunt and Uncle, we knew of his basic backstory, just not that Anakin = Vader. We didn't know a massive amount about Han Solo but we know he's a great pilot, a smuggler, and that he's heavily in debt to Jabba the Hutt. None of the new characters come off as anything other than cardboard cutouts. If there's ever a movie that was massively praised that I just didn't get the hype, it was TFA. I'd probably put it above TPM in the SW canon but not much else.

Lucas had a curious approach to the prequels. TPM is a very kiddie oriented flick with Jar Jar and young Anakin, yet it also has all of this dense plot with the Trade Federation's blockade and Palpatine orchestrating all of this stuff behind the scenes.

From what I've read others say..Palpatine had a contingency plan, some general took over, then he died, and Snoke is an ancient creature that basically took over once Palps got deep sixed. Apparently Battlefront 2 elaborates on some of it as well?..

If spoilers are true, TLJ opens up a lot more mystery concerning Snoke and Kylo/Luke's backstory and even Rey...I don't mind because it builds intrigue but damn episode IX better resolve everything.

[Bang Bang Bart]

Dec 13, 2017 16:16:09 GMT -5 @jdogindy said:

Dec 13, 2017 4:07:03 GMT -5 Mighty Attack Tribble said:

Based on the spoilers I read, it's more of a Pyrrhic victory, at best. By the end the First Order has been given a huge blow, but the Resistance is more or less decimated, scattered to the wind, and their ultimate beacon of hope - Luke - is dead. They didn't so much win, as just avoid being massacred.

Eh, I still say the First Order comes off very pathetic here. If this truly was Empire, the Resistance would be reeling badly, but you also have the fear of the First Order now that they have the edge again.

Here... I don't feel it.

This would be like if Empire ended with Darth Sidious dead and the Empire's top guys dead even if Han Solo was frozen in carbonite.

[Germansuplex]

Well, Episode VIII is a movie that certainly happened.

Other than that, I found it to be frustrating. For every thing it did well, it did another thing in a confusing, nonsensical or just plain bad way.

What a weird, weird entry into the canon.

[Welfare Willis]

Dec 14, 2017 2:52:56 GMT -5 Germansuplex said:

Well, Episode VIII is a movie that certainly happened.

Other than that, I found it to be frustrating. For every thing it did well, it did another thing in a confusing, nonsensical or just plain bad way.

What a weird, weird entry into the canon.

It was...interesting. I wouldn't call it bad, but I don't know if I'd call it great either. I think the big takeaway is those who expect Episode VIII to be an updated Empire Strikes Back... nope. This film does chart a new course. I think my one small annoyance was some of the comedy beats they had. I don't think the porg stuff was necessary. If anything I think a strong theme of episode VIII is what is good and what is evil. The film poses some interesting questions into what was a pretty much black and white universe.

[Germansuplex]

Dec 14, 2017 6:56:05 GMT -5 Welfare Willis said:

Dec 14, 2017 2:52:56 GMT -5 Germansuplex said:

Well, Episode VIII is a movie that certainly happened.

Other than that, I found it to be frustrating. For every thing it did well, it did another thing in a confusing, nonsensical or just plain bad way.

What a weird, weird entry into the canon.

It was...interesting. I wouldn't call it bad, but I don't know if I'd call it great either. I think the big takeaway is those who expect Episode VIII to be an updated Empire Strikes Back... nope. This film does chart a new course. I think my one small annoyance was some of the comedy beats they had. I don't think the porg stuff was necessary. If anything I think a strong theme of episode VIII is what is good and what is evil. The film poses some interesting questions into what was a pretty much black and white universe.

Except it doesn't. Just after Last Jedi threatens do dismantle the black-and-white narrative, it's back to square one: Rey is good, Kylo is evil. Not that I mind, though, I think Star Wars should not be mired in moral complexities. If I want that, I watch HBO.

I'm also fine with the porgs, my problems lie elsewhere: This movie has three storylines, and two of them are bad. The Resistance ship essentially turns into Battlestar Galactica, with the Cylon fleet on their heels, but without any inherent logic. Why doesn't Holdo just tell Poe about the plan? Why has the First Order only a handful of ships? Why don't they dispatch some bombers? Why can a single cruiser destroy a whole fleet like it was made out of paper?

Even worse: That whole debacle with Finn and Rose taking a detour straight into prequel territory, with CGI overkill and terrible humor. Neither character profits from this, and Benicio Del Toro seems to be coked up the whole time.

Episode VIII has three high points (the Dreadnought attack, the throne room, and Luke confronting the First Order). Everything in-between is just bland filler.

[Welfare Willis]

Dec 14, 2017 7:08:25 GMT -5 Germansuplex said:

Dec 14, 2017 6:56:05 GMT -5 Welfare Willis said:

It was...interesting. I wouldn't call it bad, but I don't know if I'd call it great either. I think the big takeaway is those who expect Episode VIII to be an updated Empire Strikes Back... nope. This film does chart a new course. I think my one small annoyance was some of the comedy beats they had. I don't think the porg stuff was necessary. If anything I think a strong theme of episode VIII is what is good and what is evil. The film poses some interesting questions into what was a pretty much black and white universe.

Except it doesn't. Just after Last Jedi threatens do dismantle the black-and-white narrative, it's back to square one: Rey is good, Kylo is evil. Not that I mind, though, I think Star Wars should not be mired in moral complexities. If I want that, I watch HBO.

I'm also fine with the porgs, my problems lie elsewhere: This movie has three storylines, and two of them are bad. The Resistance ship essentially turns into Battlestar Galactica, with the Cylon fleet on their heels, but without any inherent logic. Why doesn't Holdo just tell Poe about the plan? Why has the First Order only a handful of ships? Why don't they dispatch some bombers? Why can a single cruiser destroy a whole fleet like it was made out of paper?

Even worse: That whole debacle with Finn and Rose taking a detour straight into prequel territory, with CGI overkill and terrible humor. Neither character profits from this, and Benicio Del Toro seems to be coked up the whole time.

Episode VIII has three high points (the Dreadnought attack, the throne room, and Luke confronting the First Order). Everything in-between is just bland filler.

I disagree with your analysis. I thought the stuff with Ben/Luke and Luke/Rey did show that Jedi weren't all white meat babyface. Ben Solo didn't just fall to the dark side. Luke being brash, had a moment of weakness, and the jedi master played a part in turning Ben to the dark side. This is the first film that does present more of a grey area than any of the other films. Additionally you had the the casino planet profitting off the weapon sales to the first order and Rebellion. That being said it does revert back to good and evil after the death and guard fight.

I think the porg thing is more to do with inserting comedy after some dramatic moment. Drama then a little comedy bit, back to drama. Just let the drama breathe for a moment. Also they felt like they were there just to make a toy. Which I get, but it's just so balant.


I will give you Benicio Del Toro looks coked up in the film.

[Germansuplex]

Dec 14, 2017 8:21:58 GMT -5 Welfare Willis said:

Dec 14, 2017 7:08:25 GMT -5 Germansuplex said:

Except it doesn't. Just after Last Jedi threatens do dismantle the black-and-white narrative, it's back to square one: Rey is good, Kylo is evil. Not that I mind, though, I think Star Wars should not be mired in moral complexities. If I want that, I watch HBO.

I'm also fine with the porgs, my problems lie elsewhere: This movie has three storylines, and two of them are bad. The Resistance ship essentially turns into Battlestar Galactica, with the Cylon fleet on their heels, but without any inherent logic. Why doesn't Holdo just tell Poe about the plan? Why has the First Order only a handful of ships? Why don't they dispatch some bombers? Why can a single cruiser destroy a whole fleet like it was made out of paper?

Even worse: That whole debacle with Finn and Rose taking a detour straight into prequel territory, with CGI overkill and terrible humor. Neither character profits from this, and Benicio Del Toro seems to be coked up the whole time.

Episode VIII has three high points (the Dreadnought attack, the throne room, and Luke confronting the First Order). Everything in-between is just bland filler.

I disagree with your analysis. I thought the stuff with Ben/Luke and Luke/Rey did show that Jedi weren't all white meat babyface. Ben Solo didn't just fall to the dark side. Luke being brash, had a moment of weakness, and the jedi master played a part in turning Ben to the dark side. This is the first film that does present more of a grey area than any of the other films. Additionally you had the the casino planet profitting off the weapon sales to the first order and Rebellion. That being said it does revert back to good and evil after the death and guard fight.

I think the porg thing is more to do with inserting comedy after some dramatic moment. Drama then a little comedy bit, back to drama. Just let the drama breathe for a moment. Also they felt like they were there just to make a toy. Which I get, but it's just so balant.


I will give you Benicio Del Toro looks coked up in the film.

The comedy thing reminds me of Thor Ragnarok, which always went for the cheap laugh, robbing the movie of any dramatic impact. Last Jedi did this better, with a few exceptions. I absolutely adore General Hux as he first evil comic relief character the saga has.

[Mighty Attack Tribble]

My one regret is that story choices and real life have robbed us of ever seeing Luke, Leia, Han, and Chewie reunited on screen.