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Post by "Evil Brood" Jackson Vanik on Aug 12, 2019 14:12:23 GMT -5
It's totally fair to say that most gun deaths don't come from mass shootings. If we hope to ever tackle the gigantic scope of gun violence in America, those areas need to be tackled, suicides in particular which make up nearly two-thirds of gun deaths in this country. However, the types of changes that need to be made to make that large of an impact are unfortunately not that tenable. The types of policy solutions being proposed today are common sense laws that can tackle some of the deaths but certainly not all of them. But they're an important first step. If we can slowly show people that these laws are smart and protect the public, I honestly think we can start moving on the path to bigger policies, even if it's a slow path. It's frustrating that it takes large scale events like these to get the public to pay attention. But that doesn't change the fact that it gets attention and offers a real chance to make a difference. Mass shootings aren't the heart of the problem, but they could offer a way to get to it eventually.
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Post by Cyno on Aug 12, 2019 15:27:54 GMT -5
There is a trickle-down effect, too. Illegal guns used by gangs and other violent criminals don't just appear out of the ether. There's big gun trafficking operations that transport guns from areas of the country where they're more easily, legally obtained to areas where they're tougher. You strengthen gun laws in the country overall, and you make the black market more prohibitive to enter from both a dealer and a purchaser situation.
So taking measures to stop mass shootings will also likely result in less gun deaths in the Chicagos and Baltimores of the country.
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Post by Fade is a CodyCryBaby on Aug 12, 2019 17:42:54 GMT -5
There is a trickle-down effect, too. Illegal guns used by gangs and other violent criminals don't just appear out of the ether. There's big gun trafficking operations that transport guns from areas of the country where they're more easily, legally obtained to areas where they're tougher. You strengthen gun laws in the country overall, and you make the black market more prohibitive to enter from both a dealer and a purchaser situation. So taking measures to stop mass shootings will also likely result in less gun deaths in the Chicagos and Baltimores of the country. That’s a great point because something that is often brought up is “you’ll take the guns away from good people, bad people will still manage to obtain them” and this is compared to prohibition, or drugs today (I can get hard drugs like *that* I live pretty modestly and stay the f*** away from people and still) ..if eventual restrictions or ..whatever ..leads to a crackdown on the illegal trafficking, I can get behind that, that could be a huge, huge beneficial thing, now the question is if any extra enthused cracking down I’d said activities can/will happen.
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hassanchop
Grimlock
Who are you to doubt Belldandy?
Posts: 14,794
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Post by hassanchop on Aug 13, 2019 3:36:50 GMT -5
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Kyn
Don Corleone
Posts: 1,623
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Post by Kyn on Aug 13, 2019 9:06:19 GMT -5
He was stopped with a chair and a milk crate. There's a lesson for the NRA and US government. (Can I say that? It's a lesson for *certain people*, anyway.)
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hassanchop
Grimlock
Who are you to doubt Belldandy?
Posts: 14,794
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Post by hassanchop on Aug 13, 2019 9:07:48 GMT -5
He was stopped with a chair and a milk crate. There's a lesson for the NRA and US government. Yeah you give em the chair. Chair shot.
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The Ichi
Patti Mayonnaise
AGGRESSIVE Executive Janitor of the Third Floor Manager's Bathroom
Posts: 37,300
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Post by The Ichi on Aug 13, 2019 9:16:28 GMT -5
That's... not a lot of people
As tragic and unnecessary as every single one of those deaths are it goes to show the majority of gun deaths in this country are of the one off variety. The ones that get ignored by the media in large part, or become the fourth or fifth story on the local news about whatever major city you live in.
If anybody is truly serious about gun violence, that's where you start. Sadly it doesn't move the needle in one direction or the other. But a life taken is a life taken, and gun violence is gun violence
1'196 should never be written off as a small amount of people when the subject is unnecessary deaths. That's 1'196 people too many.
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Futureraven: Beelzebruv
Bill S. Preston, Esq.
The Ultimate Arbiter of Right And Wrong
Spent half my life here, God help me
Posts: 15,070
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Post by Futureraven: Beelzebruv on Aug 13, 2019 9:36:39 GMT -5
He was stopped with a chair and a milk crate. There's a lesson for the NRA and US government. (Can I say that? It's a lesson for *certain people*, anyway.) I have exclusive footage:
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Post by HMARK Center on Aug 13, 2019 16:51:57 GMT -5
Thanks, Neil Degrasse Tyson. Jabs like this, to reasonable discussion, is why we’re not going to get anywhere with this. That's really not why we're not getting anywhere, not even close. The reason is money, pure and simple. Meanwhile, another white nationalist terrorist tried to shoot up a mosque, this time in Norway. Thankfully, a 70+ year old grandpa got him in a chokehold and sat on his chest until the cops arrived. Badass.
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Post by Natural Born Farmer on Aug 13, 2019 17:01:35 GMT -5
There is a trickle-down effect, too. Illegal guns used by gangs and other violent criminals don't just appear out of the ether. There's big gun trafficking operations that transport guns from areas of the country where they're more easily, legally obtained to areas where they're tougher. You strengthen gun laws in the country overall, and you make the black market more prohibitive to enter from both a dealer and a purchaser situation. So taking measures to stop mass shootings will also likely result in less gun deaths in the Chicagos and Baltimores of the country. Its kind of an open secret here in Texas that the enormous amount of gun stores in the southern part of the state is because there’s excellent money to be made selling large amounts of weapons to citizens who then turn right around and sell them to drug cartels. Mexico has incredibly strict gun laws, and yet gangsters keep on getting them as a direct result of the laws in this country.
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Post by Cyno on Aug 13, 2019 17:10:26 GMT -5
There is a trickle-down effect, too. Illegal guns used by gangs and other violent criminals don't just appear out of the ether. There's big gun trafficking operations that transport guns from areas of the country where they're more easily, legally obtained to areas where they're tougher. You strengthen gun laws in the country overall, and you make the black market more prohibitive to enter from both a dealer and a purchaser situation. So taking measures to stop mass shootings will also likely result in less gun deaths in the Chicagos and Baltimores of the country. Its kind of an open secret here in Texas that the enormous amount of gun stores in the southern part of the state is because there’s excellent money to be made selling large amounts of weapons to citizens who then turn right around and sell them to drug cartels. Mexico has incredibly strict gun laws, and yet gangsters keep on getting them as a direct result of the laws in this country. I read a recent article about that. It makes a sad amount of sense.
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Dr. T is an alien
Patti Mayonnaise
Knows when to hold them, knows when to fold them
I've been found out!
Posts: 31,360
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Post by Dr. T is an alien on Aug 13, 2019 17:25:25 GMT -5
Its kind of an open secret here in Texas that the enormous amount of gun stores in the southern part of the state is because there’s excellent money to be made selling large amounts of weapons to citizens who then turn right around and sell them to drug cartels. Mexico has incredibly strict gun laws, and yet gangsters keep on getting them as a direct result of the laws in this country. I read a recent article about that. It makes a sad amount of sense. It’s similar to Chicago’s gun violence. Most of the guns in Chicago comes from a single gun store across the Indiana border.
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Post by Mighty Attack Tribble on Aug 13, 2019 18:27:04 GMT -5
I read a recent article about that. It makes a sad amount of sense. It’s similar to Chicago’s gun violence. Most of the guns in Chicago comes from a single gun store across the Indiana border. It's so frustrating seeing Chicago's strict gun laws not reducing gun violence being trotted out as a reason why gun laws should be relaxed when the problem isn't the laws themselves, but the fact that circumventing them is as easy as driving for a couple of hours to somewhere that doesn't have them.
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Post by Fade is a CodyCryBaby on Aug 13, 2019 19:24:24 GMT -5
Jabs like this, to reasonable discussion, is why we’re not going to get anywhere with this. That's really not why we're not getting anywhere, not even close. The reason is money, pure and simple. Meanwhile, another white nationalist terrorist tried to shoot up a mosque, this time in Norway. Thankfully, a 70+ year old grandpa got him in a chokehold and sat on his chest until the cops arrived. Badass. Cool. But what I mean by “we’re” is us. People. Us as people. I absolutely agree with what you said about money and on a higher level and have mentioned that previously in the thread.
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Post by HMARK Center on Aug 14, 2019 10:45:22 GMT -5
That's really not why we're not getting anywhere, not even close. The reason is money, pure and simple. Meanwhile, another white nationalist terrorist tried to shoot up a mosque, this time in Norway. Thankfully, a 70+ year old grandpa got him in a chokehold and sat on his chest until the cops arrived. Badass. Cool. But what I mean by “we’re” is us. People. Us as people. I absolutely agree with what you said about money and on a higher level and have mentioned that previously in the thread. Again, I disagree; we, as a people, are fairly consistent across most polls and opinion findings as being in favor of different measures to curtail extreme gun violence, regardless of how a handful of us might speak about it on the internet.
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Post by Fade is a CodyCryBaby on Aug 14, 2019 11:08:52 GMT -5
Cool. But what I mean by “we’re” is us. People. Us as people. I absolutely agree with what you said about money and on a higher level and have mentioned that previously in the thread. Again, I disagree; we, as a people, are fairly consistent across most polls and opinion findings as being in favor of different measures to curtail extreme gun violence, regardless of how a handful of us might speak about it on the internet. Can’t wait for the easy fix, then
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Dr. T is an alien
Patti Mayonnaise
Knows when to hold them, knows when to fold them
I've been found out!
Posts: 31,360
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Post by Dr. T is an alien on Aug 14, 2019 22:18:45 GMT -5
Does anyone know if the standoff in Philadelphia has been resolved?
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Post by Limity (BLM) on Aug 14, 2019 23:26:41 GMT -5
Does anyone know if the standoff in Philadelphia has been resolved? Per NPR, the standoff is still active and ongoing.
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Post by Cyno on Aug 14, 2019 23:36:37 GMT -5
Does anyone know if the standoff in Philadelphia has been resolved? Just read that the suspect is now in custody.
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Sephiroth
Wade Wilson
Surviving
Posts: 28,944
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Post by Sephiroth on Aug 15, 2019 15:16:51 GMT -5
Its kind of an open secret here in Texas that the enormous amount of gun stores in the southern part of the state is because there’s excellent money to be made selling large amounts of weapons to citizens who then turn right around and sell them to drug cartels. Mexico has incredibly strict gun laws, and yet gangsters keep on getting them as a direct result of the laws in this country. I read a recent article about that. It makes a sad amount of sense. I read an article that told the story of a fellow who makes hubs and ammunition as a sort of side hustle, and who acted so surprised when some of them were found in an FBI raid and said “If I’d known I never would have sold to him!” But I look at that and I can’t help but say-you knew, or at least you suspected. A single person buying that many guns, particularly that many of that type of gun, along with that much ammunition-it’s a safe bet to say you realized he wasn’t target shooting.
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