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Post by jimmyjackezekiel on Aug 28, 2021 17:58:36 GMT -5
"He broke 6000 guitars, never drew a dime." Just to make my point clearer. I don't think it was anywhere near six thousand. It had to be somewhere in the 2-3 thousand number at the very most.
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Post by dgenerationmc on Aug 28, 2021 18:01:22 GMT -5
"He broke 6000 guitars, never drew a dime." Just to make my point clearer. I don't think it was anywhere near six thousand. It had to be somewhere in the 2-3 thousand number at the very most. So he never even drew a nickel?
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Post by Jedi-El of Tomorrow on Aug 28, 2021 18:17:57 GMT -5
The idea that Michael Cole is allegedly a totally inept commentator, or rather the feeling he's never had a good call. He can be dorky, but Cole's had his moments where he's been let off his leash and done some great play-by-play, like Mankind beating the Rock for the title on Raw, Eddie Guerrero beating Brock, Bryan winning the triple threat, and Brock/Goldberg II. I think his Miz-fanboy heel run hurt him, it admittedly got a bit grating and went too long and that soured people on his image a bit. His call after Bryan lost at Elimination Chamber 2014 is one of the best calls in recent times. "How much more of this does Daniel Bryan have to suffer through? How much more of this does Daniel Bryan have to take? He's the runner-up again. And it's been heartbreaking, it's been frustrating, it's been going on since SummerSlam, and at some point it's gotta stop!"
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Post by Oh Cry Me a Screwball on Aug 28, 2021 19:22:57 GMT -5
I loved his infamous “what” promo I don't even hate the WHAT chants as much as everyone else. They can be a little annoying, and the joke is old now, but I for whatever reason I just don't mind them that much. The What chants are the ultimate litmus test for guys that can adapt to promos. Yes, they are annoying. Yes, they should stop. But they aren't an excuse for a bad promo, especially in WWE where you know they are a possibility. Feel free to throw them back in the audience's face, or incorporate them into your act. R-Truth's heel run was great because he'd let the chant feed into his instability, for example.
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Post by Loser troll. Please ban me on Aug 29, 2021 0:10:48 GMT -5
I don't know if this is a narrative or just a persistent urban legend but the Brisco/Patterson evening gown match was not the most-watched WWE segment ever. It was Austin Vs Undertaker Raw (06/28/1999)
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Post by A Platypus Rave on Aug 29, 2021 0:12:12 GMT -5
I don't know if this is a narrative or just a persistent urban legend but the Brisco/Patterson evening gown match was not the most-watched WWE segment ever. It was Austin Vs Undertaker Raw (06/28/1999) I have never heard anyone ever claim that...
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Post by Loser troll. Please ban me on Aug 29, 2021 0:14:49 GMT -5
I don't know if this is a narrative or just a persistent urban legend but the Brisco/Patterson evening gown match was not the most-watched WWE segment ever. It was Austin Vs Undertaker Raw (06/28/1999) I have never heard anyone ever claim that... I swear I used to read people saying that the match I referred to had some crazy high numbers or something to that effect. I could very well be mixing up old urban legends. Apologies
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Post by A Platypus Rave on Aug 29, 2021 0:15:44 GMT -5
I have never heard anyone ever claim that... I swear I used to read people saying that the match I referred to had some crazy high numbers or something to that effect. Maybe? I mean it's been a while but it's not something I remember hearing.
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Post by Loser troll. Please ban me on Aug 29, 2021 0:23:29 GMT -5
I swear I used to read people saying that the match I referred to had some crazy high numbers or something to that effect. Maybe? I mean it's been a while but it's not something I remember hearing. Turns out you were correct. What I was thinking of was The Stooges vs. The Mean Street Posse and reading a lifetime ago it was the highest-rated segment. In that vein, I want to ask if you ever heard the one about Wrestling (attitude era) outdrawing football.
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petef3
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Post by petef3 on Aug 29, 2021 0:32:53 GMT -5
The Stooges vs. Mean Street Posse did set a record for most-watched cable match in history at the time, and is still in the top 5 to this day (and will likely remain there).
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Post by Final Countdown Jones on Aug 29, 2021 1:24:51 GMT -5
Perhaps I’m making this sound way too one sided, but I feel like Roman Reigns rose to the top organically (2013-2015) and was very much accepted and over with the fans. It was the booking of Rumble 2015 that did him in, and not so much being “shoved down our throats.” From my perspective, it was very obvious what WWE had planned for Reigns once he had that big performance at SSeries 2013. But, I remember going into WM 30 with The Shield teasing a split that there was a real fear that Ambrose and Rollins' purpose were to be sacrificed as stepping stones for Roman. Luckily that didn't happen but, mind you, this was all during the same time of the fan revolt to get Bryan into the Mania main event. You could tell WWE wanted to make Reigns "happen" more than the fans (who still very much liked but didn't love Roman) did so I spent the rest of 2014 covering my eyes for Roman because I knew we were trading one revolt (Batista/Bryan/Mania 30) for another (Roman). It was like watching the Titanic inch closer and closer to the iceberg. The push was just so transparent and not on the same page with fans as a whole that it was no surprise to me what happened in 2015. WWE just got ahead of themselves and refused to take a moment to reassess. The Roman backlash definitely didn't come out of nowhere, there were signs that WWE simply chose to ignore. Oh, the fans don't wanna make it work? Well, WWE will force them to wanna make it work. Bad choice, guys. Yeah, every word from Meltzer back during the Shield run was that Roman was being groomed as the top star coming out of the group and was going to be the one who mattered most. There wasn't any way to ignore what they were running with him; they wanted him to be big, and everybody saw it coming without CM Punk to spell it out. The Rumble wasn't the moment everyone went "Wait he's not Daniel Bryan BOOOOOOO", it was the moment everyone had confirmation that they were going all in on this. And in the years to follow, where they never once backed down against him, except for the annual moment where he'd be booked against Brock and they'd blink on letting him win? That's where the throat shoving came in, because people weren't having it but WWE kept on and on and on and on and on. The Rumble was just what made it real instead of theoretical.
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Post by eJm on Aug 29, 2021 2:59:31 GMT -5
From my perspective, it was very obvious what WWE had planned for Reigns once he had that big performance at SSeries 2013. But, I remember going into WM 30 with The Shield teasing a split that there was a real fear that Ambrose and Rollins' purpose were to be sacrificed as stepping stones for Roman. Luckily that didn't happen but, mind you, this was all during the same time of the fan revolt to get Bryan into the Mania main event. You could tell WWE wanted to make Reigns "happen" more than the fans (who still very much liked but didn't love Roman) did so I spent the rest of 2014 covering my eyes for Roman because I knew we were trading one revolt (Batista/Bryan/Mania 30) for another (Roman). It was like watching the Titanic inch closer and closer to the iceberg. The push was just so transparent and not on the same page with fans as a whole that it was no surprise to me what happened in 2015. WWE just got ahead of themselves and refused to take a moment to reassess. The Roman backlash definitely didn't come out of nowhere, there were signs that WWE simply chose to ignore. Oh, the fans don't wanna make it work? Well, WWE will force them to wanna make it work. Bad choice, guys. Yeah, every word from Meltzer back during the Shield run was that Roman was being groomed as the top star coming out of the group and was going to be the one who mattered most. There wasn't any way to ignore what they were running with him; they wanted him to be big, and everybody saw it coming without CM Punk to spell it out. The Rumble wasn't the moment everyone went "Wait he's not Daniel Bryan BOOOOOOO", it was the moment everyone had confirmation that they were going all in on this. And in the years to follow, where they never once backed down against him, except for the annual moment where he'd be booked against Brock and they'd blink on letting him win? That's where the throat shoving came in, because people weren't having it but WWE kept on and on and on and on and on. The Rumble was just what made it real instead of theoretical. And while we’re here, people who still say the crowd were booing the Rumble from when Bryan was eliminated and never recovered pretty much ignored the fact that there were a lot of other over people in that Rumble people liked who were either eliminated quickly or thrown out like garbage by Big Show and Kane. And Roman didn’t even get put over from eliminating them, he fluked in doing it, had his cousin run in to help him out for some reason and took advantage of an already destroyed Rusev to win. And he was facing Brock Lesnar that year. How were people supposed to seriously buy this guy could do it?
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 29, 2021 3:00:51 GMT -5
Yeah, every word from Meltzer back during the Shield run was that Roman was being groomed as the top star coming out of the group and was going to be the one who mattered most. There wasn't any way to ignore what they were running with him; they wanted him to be big, and everybody saw it coming without CM Punk to spell it out. The Rumble wasn't the moment everyone went "Wait he's not Daniel Bryan BOOOOOOO", it was the moment everyone had confirmation that they were going all in on this. And in the years to follow, where they never once backed down against him, except for the annual moment where he'd be booked against Brock and they'd blink on letting him win? That's where the throat shoving came in, because people weren't having it but WWE kept on and on and on and on and on. The Rumble was just what made it real instead of theoretical. And while we’re here, people who still say the crowd were booing the Rumble from when Bryan was eliminated and never recovered pretty much ignored the fact that there were a lot of other over people in that Rumble people liked who were either eliminated quickly or thrown out like garbage by Big Show and Kane. And Roman didn’t even get put over from eliminating them, he fluked in doing it, had his cousin run in to help him out for some reason and took advantage of an already destroyed Rusev to win. And he was facing Brock Lesnar that year. How were people supposed to seriously buy this guy could do it? It really is insane just how bad that Rumble was executed.
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Hypnosis
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Post by Hypnosis on Aug 29, 2021 10:08:45 GMT -5
I don't even hate the WHAT chants as much as everyone else. They can be a little annoying, and the joke is old now, but I for whatever reason I just don't mind them that much. The What chants are the ultimate litmus test for guys that can adapt to promos. Yes, they are annoying. Yes, they should stop. But they aren't an excuse for a bad promo, especially in WWE where you know they are a possibility. Feel free to throw them back in the audience's face, or incorporate them into your act. R-Truth's heel run was great because he'd let the chant feed into his instability, for example. I've been wanting a heel to respond with "When?", "Where?", "Who?" "How?", and "Why?" after every "What?" chant for a long time now.
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Post by HMARK Center on Aug 29, 2021 10:59:01 GMT -5
It’s been brought up before, but the Fingerpoke of Doom often gets depicted as *the* definitive moment the tide swung fully against WCW and toward WWF.
While many people did switch to watch Foley win, it’s too convenient a storytelling device, particularly since ratings went up, as I recall, in the immediate aftermath of the Fingerpoke.
The problem was WCW’s systemic creative rot, their failure to capitalize and just have Goldberg proceed to finally destroy the nWo, and I believe a few poorly timed injuries, as well. Basically, the moment is used as a narrative crutch when the real causes of WCW’s downfall were more systemic than that.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 29, 2021 12:42:47 GMT -5
Yeah, I never really got the Austin thing either. Fans went along with the heel turn for the most part. He was booed in Texas the night after Wrestlemania in the rematch with The Rock. He was booed against the Hardys and Lita. Booed against Undertaker and Kane. Booed against Jericho and Benoit. Booed against Angle.
He only got cheered during that first month or so of the invasion when he was doing funny segments with Vince and Angle but at that point every WWF wrestler (except X-Pac) was cheered and every Alliance wrestler (except Rob Van Dam) was booed. No one who paid money to go to a WWF show was going to boo Steve Austin beating up Buff Bagwell.
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Post by eJm on Aug 29, 2021 12:52:21 GMT -5
Yeah, I never really got the Austin thing either. Fans went along with the heel turn for the most part. He was booed in Texas the night after Wrestlemania in the rematch with The Rock. He was booed against the Hardys and Lita. Booed against Undertaker and Kane. Booed against Jericho and Benoit. Booed against Angle. He only got cheered during that first month or so of the invasion when he was doing funny segments with Vince and Angle but at that point every WWF wrestler (except X-Pac) was cheered and every Alliance wrestler (except Rob Van Dam) was booed. No one who paid money to go to a WWF show was going to boo Steve Austin beating up Buff Bagwell. I always think the way it should be worded is that “crowds embraced Austin as a heel, viewers did not” as ratings were dropping a lot during that time. Hence why they did stuff like TLC III and the Angle/Benoit Cage match on free TV. Also didn’t help that every potential new main eventer made before the Benoit/Jericho attempts were beaten like drums weekly before the InVasion kicked in (Hardys, Edge & Christian etc).
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Post by eJm on Aug 29, 2021 12:56:51 GMT -5
It’s been brought up before, but the Fingerpoke of Doom often gets depicted as *the* definitive moment the tide swung fully against WCW and toward WWF. While many people did switch to watch Foley win, it’s too convenient a storytelling device, particularly since ratings went up, as I recall, in the immediate aftermath of the Fingerpoke. The problem was WCW’s systemic creative rot, their failure to capitalize and just have Goldberg proceed to finally destroy the nWo, and I believe a few poorly timed injuries, as well. Basically, the moment is used as a narrative crutch when the real causes of WCW’s downfall were more systemic than that. I heard from the Bryan and Vinny retro reviews that the Superbrawl 1999 with Hogan vs. Flair did a better buy rate than St. Valentines Day Massacre with Austin/Vince inside a steel cage which sounds insane to me considering.
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Post by Jedi-El of Tomorrow on Aug 29, 2021 13:40:20 GMT -5
It’s been brought up before, but the Fingerpoke of Doom often gets depicted as *the* definitive moment the tide swung fully against WCW and toward WWF. While many people did switch to watch Foley win, it’s too convenient a storytelling device, particularly since ratings went up, as I recall, in the immediate aftermath of the Fingerpoke. The problem was WCW’s systemic creative rot, their failure to capitalize and just have Goldberg proceed to finally destroy the nWo, and I believe a few poorly timed injuries, as well. Basically, the moment is used as a narrative crutch when the real causes of WCW’s downfall were more systemic than that. Yeah, they had the perfect perfect payoff in their lap, they just refused to do it. Goldberg tears through the nWo with backup from guys like DDP and Sting. Just make the storyline that DDP and Sting are sick of the nWo, and it's time for the nWo to die. The nWo is systematically destroyed, till it's Goldberg vs Hogan one on one and Goldberg obliterates him. Goldberg gets back momentum he had lost (fans were getting bored with the streak), the nWo dies, and the good guys win. When it became clear that none of that was in the plans, fans were done. They completely botched Goldberg after the streak.
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Post by jimmyjackezekiel on Aug 29, 2021 14:37:39 GMT -5
I don't even hate the WHAT chants as much as everyone else. They can be a little annoying, and the joke is old now, but I for whatever reason I just don't mind them that much. The What chants are the ultimate litmus test for guys that can adapt to promos. Yes, they are annoying. Yes, they should stop. But they aren't an excuse for a bad promo, especially in WWE where you know they are a possibility. Feel free to throw them back in the audience's face, or incorporate them into your act. R-Truth's heel run was great because he'd let the chant feed into his instability, for example. Undertaker had the perfect counter to those chants. It's a damn shame hardly anyone else got to use it or some variant of it. "Say what if you like to sleep with your own sister." "What- BOOOOOOOO!!!"
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