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Post by Clash, Never a Meter Maid on Aug 31, 2021 10:08:46 GMT -5
Goldberg's WCW tenure is the tale of 2 halves. The first half, up until he dropped the title they booked him to damn near perfection overall. From Starrcade 98 on, he was booked like total asscheeks His 2000 is one of the stupidest things that WCW had ever done. He comes back with fans going nuts for him, he's the top face, and they turn him heel. A turn that nobody wanted, a turn that only lasted a couple of months, and at a time when WCW was in a downward spiral a turn of the number 1 face in the company. Holy shit, did WWE actually book Goldberg better than WCW? Not perfectly, but when I factor in that run resulting in that awesome Brock/Goldberg rematch? Yes.
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Post by eJm on Aug 31, 2021 10:25:30 GMT -5
Goldberg's WCW tenure is the tale of 2 halves. The first half, up until he dropped the title they booked him to damn near perfection overall. From Starrcade 98 on, he was booked like total asscheeks His 2000 is one of the stupidest things that WCW had ever done. He comes back with fans going nuts for him, he's the top face, and they turn him heel. A turn that nobody wanted, a turn that only lasted a couple of months, and at a time when WCW was in a downward spiral a turn of the number 1 face in the company. Holy shit, did WWE actually book Goldberg better than WCW? First run? Absolutely not. Second run? A mixed bag but certainly better than his post Starrcade 98 run.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 31, 2021 10:36:39 GMT -5
Goldberg only winning the wcw title once is one of the most insane things they could've ever done. 1999 needed to be goldberg running through everybody affiliated with the nWo and going on another winning streak. Goldberg's WCW tenure is the tale of 2 halves. The first half, up until he dropped the title they booked him to damn near perfection overall. From Starrcade 98 on, he was booked like total asscheeks This is actually a good thread for this because I would argue that this idea that Goldberg up until StarrCade 1998 was perfect is a myth. Goldberg's streak is perfect and the win over Hogan is perfect, but then he proceeds to have a completely meaningless CM Punk 2008 type title reign where he holds the belt, but he's not the guy. He misses two PPVs during his World championship reign because he has nothing to do. The match with DDP at Halloween Havoc is the bright spot of that reign. That's pretty much it. At Bash at the Beach, he curtain jerks with Curt Hennig - as Hogan is in the main event, despite just losing the championship to Goldberg. Then at Road Wild, he wins a battle royal in the semi-main. This time he curtain jerks to Jay Leno. And Hogan. Then he has that awesome match with DDP. And then he drops the title to Nash. No wonder people were cheering for Nash and chanting "Goldberg sucks!" at StarrCade.
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Post by James Fabiano on Aug 31, 2021 10:43:20 GMT -5
One happening now, and one I admit to spreading:
"Peacock is going to completely butcher the WWE's library"
So far beyond the examples most of us know from earlier this year, I haven't heard of other samples of major censoring on their end. Unless we just accepted it and don't report every time we notice an alteration.
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Post by A Platypus Rave on Aug 31, 2021 13:22:03 GMT -5
Goldberg's WCW tenure is the tale of 2 halves. The first half, up until he dropped the title they booked him to damn near perfection overall. From Starrcade 98 on, he was booked like total asscheeks His 2000 is one of the stupidest things that WCW had ever done. He comes back with fans going nuts for him, he's the top face, and they turn him heel. A turn that nobody wanted, a turn that only lasted a couple of months, and at a time when WCW was in a downward spiral a turn of the number 1 face in the company. Holy shit, did WWE actually book Goldberg better than WCW? and the heel turn was hyped by Vince Russo as something that "NOT EVEN VINCE MCMAHON HIMSELF COULD STOP!" ... like why would Vince stop you from turning one of your most over faces, heel?
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Post by sungod2020 on Aug 31, 2021 19:00:15 GMT -5
Goldberg's WCW tenure is the tale of 2 halves. The first half, up until he dropped the title they booked him to damn near perfection overall. From Starrcade 98 on, he was booked like total asscheeks This is actually a good thread for this because I would argue that this idea that Goldberg up until StarrCade 1998 was perfect is a myth. Goldberg's streak is perfect and the win over Hogan is perfect, but then he proceeds to have a completely meaningless CM Punk 2008 type title reign where he holds the belt, but he's not the guy. He misses two PPVs during his World championship reign because he has nothing to do. The match with DDP at Halloween Havoc is the bright spot of that reign. That's pretty much it. At Bash at the Beach, he curtain jerks with Curt Hennig - as Hogan is in the main event, despite just losing the championship to Goldberg. Then at Road Wild, he wins a battle royal in the semi-main. This time he curtain jerks to Jay Leno. And Hogan. Then he has that awesome match with DDP. And then he drops the title to Nash. No wonder people were cheering for Nash and chanting "Goldberg sucks!" at StarrCade. While it might've been an awesome moment and a ratings grabber, having Goldberg win the World Heavyweight Championship against Hulk Hogan was a bad idea in the long run. 1)They could've made millions more doing it on PPV or 2)if they were going to book him against Hogan on a Nitro, Hogan should've broke his streak via shady means to have him(Hogan) get DQed and set up a rematch at Bash at The Beach for the World Title and have him win it there. Personally speaking, I would avoid that match alltogher and just give Goldie a meaningful U.S. title feud where he develops some sort of personality so his character dosen't solely depend on his streak. Once that feud runs it's course I would have him face Hogan at either World War III or Starrcade where he can win it there. I only watched snippets of WCW during that time(I was mainly a WWF fan) so my timeline of when to pull the trigger maybe a little off. There's still a matter of when and how to get the U.S. and World championships off of him that I haven't thought it and what to do with him after he loses his undefeated streak, but this is pretty much the gist of it. As far as other false narratives go, I believe it's been long debunked about Diesel being the lowest drawing WWF champion. He might've been given the belt too soon or held it longer than he should've, but the company was already in a slump and I doubt anybody else could've pulled the F out of it's rut. It's not like when they took the belt off of him business all of a sudden picked up. Here's a notoriously bad one I've heard. The Rock rose to the top because Austin was out with an injury. By the time The Texas Rattlesnake was taken off of TV(November 1999) The Rock was already a three time World champion, and his popularity rivaled him. Granted, he wasn't THE champ for 8 months at that point, but he was always within arm reach of the World title picture while also interacting with the upper midcard. He certainly was champion more in 2000 than in 99, so maybe that's where the confusion lies, but he was going to get there anyway. It's not like when Austin was injured, the company was in a panic and elevated Rock as a result. I do wonder however how 2000 would look if Austin was able to compete in most of it(he returned in the fall of that year). Maybe he would turn heel sooner. But where would that leave Triple H as the top heel? Maybe he would take a step back and feud with upper midcarders(such as The Radicalz, Kurt Angle, or Chris Jericho) while Rock and Triple H feud plays out as it did. I can't tell. Either way. Rock might've benefitted from Austin's absence, but always was and was going to continue being at or near the top of the card. I also heard rumors that Owen Hart would be repackaged as The Game if he didn't die. That wouldn't make sense given the timeline. I always think of Jeff Jarrett's midcard push as a tribute to Owen(given they were run-in buddies at the time of his death, and won the IC title shortly after it). Plus, the wheels were in motion for Triple H's main event run before Owen died, so I don't know how that rumor came to be.
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fw91
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Post by fw91 on Aug 31, 2021 19:34:32 GMT -5
Another semi-one (as in the argument has some truth, but isn't the complete story)
WWE f***ed Up the Summer of Punk. Yes the Nash involvement lead to nowhere, and HHH going over was so so so so stupid. BUT I believe CM Punk still came out of it a huge megastar that he wasn't beforehand and would have been even if it was booked to our preference.
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Post by dgenerationmc on Aug 31, 2021 21:52:28 GMT -5
Another semi-one (as in the argument has some truth, but isn't the complete story) WWE f***ed Up the Summer of Punk. Yes the Nash involvement lead to nowhere, and HHH going over was so so so so stupid. BUT I believe CM Punk still came out of it a huge megastar that he wasn't beforehand and would have been even if it was booked to our preference. Even if the storyline couldn't have stretched across to NJPW, ROH and the indies like some fans were hoping, I still believe it could've worked inside the confines of WWE TV. So much is fixed if Nash doesn't do what he did a SSlam but is revealed as the Anonymous GM the next night and kept from doing any physical stuff for a couple of months where he abuses his power on Raw with heels like Del Rio, Awesome Truth, Ziggler and Swagger as his favorites while Punk, Cena, HHH and the inspired by Punk/disgruntled with management babyface locker room all try to get on the same page to fight back. How WWE handled it didn't feel like self-sabotage but rather just very sloppy, which comes off as far worse (The InVasion says hello) to me personally.
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petef3
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Post by petef3 on Aug 31, 2021 22:32:16 GMT -5
As far as other false narratives go, I believe it's been long debunked about Diesel being the lowest drawing WWF champion. He might've been given the belt too soon or held it longer than he should've, but the company was already in a slump and I doubt anybody else could've pulled the F out of it's rut. It's not like when they took the belt off of him business all of a sudden picked up. My recollection is that there *was* a not-monumental but noticeable uptick in business once Bret got the belt back. There 100% was a big boost in business when Shawn returned to active duty in early '96, which included strong PPV numbers for the Royal Rumble and the biggest crowd in MSG in years.
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Post by "Evil Brood" Jackson Vanik on Aug 31, 2021 23:03:23 GMT -5
This might be a hot take but I think the 2000 era of WWF tag team wrestling is treated as a golden age for the division. And they delivered some historical matches for sure. But if you watched the weekly television, it wasn't too different from the rest of the card. Lots of over acts that would have short matches with unsatisfying finishes and questionable booking that didn't matter because the product was hot. Now it did have a tremendous collection of talent that went on to do great things. But it's also not as if we were getting classic matches or segments every week.
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Post by Captain Stud Muffin (BLM) on Aug 31, 2021 23:30:33 GMT -5
The idea that Michael Cole is allegedly a totally inept commentator, or rather the feeling he's never had a good call. He can be dorky, but Cole's had his moments where he's been let off his leash and done some great play-by-play, like Mankind beating the Rock for the title on Raw, Eddie Guerrero beating Brock, Bryan winning the triple threat, and Brock/Goldberg II. I think his Miz-fanboy heel run hurt him, it admittedly got a bit grating and went too long and that soured people on his image a bit. His call when Mark Henry beat Randy Orton for the title sold it as big time "Mark Henry is World Champion and all cynics and doubters be damned"
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