Austin Was Booed in 2001; favorite "false narratives"?

[Deleted]

Something I've run into online for 20 years now is the narrative that Austin wasn't booed in 2001, and you'd think the run was like Punk's forced heel run in 2012 and 2013 when at least a third of the audience still popped for music and promos every time. But honestly, going back and watching Austin's stuff from that time, it's just not true. And I've always said this. Business-wise, we all know it didn't work, and granted, people were often just pretty silent for his music. Probably due to just not knowing how to react. But Austin wasn't cheered, either. And there definitely were RAWs and SmackDowns and PPVs where outright got booed when his music hit. I'm not saying it was the best heat, or that it was a huge success, but there were boos for sure.

Performance-wise, I looooove 2001 heel Austin. One of my favorite Austin incarnations, and him being the heel allowed him to call the matches, and that's all Austin wanted to do as far as I know, and it shows. He was a fantastic heel worker for sure. But I'm not trying to argue that his heel turn was a great idea, or trying to spark up a fight about it. Just saying that if you go back and watch his segments, he was getting heat.

Every single fan podcast ever will have you believe Austin was getting major face pops every single time he came out in 2001.

What are some of your favorite "false fan narratives" in wrestling history? Things that are incorrect, but are continuously pushed by fans?

[fw91]

Perhaps I’m making this sound way too one sided, but I feel like Roman Reigns rose to the top organically (2013-2015) and was very much accepted and over with the fans. It was the booking of Rumble 2015 that did him in, and not so much being “shoved down our throats.”

[Jedi-El of Tomorrow]

AJ Lee's tweet is the reason that #givedivasachance started trending.

It started trending after a hyped Bellas vs Emma and Paige match lasted 30 seconds on Raw. It had been trending for almost 24 hours before AJ's equal pay tweet.

[Deleted]

Aug 27, 2021 0:33:23 GMT -5 fw91 said:

Perhaps I’m making this sound way too one sided, but I feel like Roman Reigns rose to the top organically (2013-2015) and was very much accepted and over with the fans. It was the booking of Rumble 2015 that did him in, and not so much being “shoved down our throats.”

I was only paying attention sporadically during this time period, so grain of salt, but I'm inclined to agree. I remember reading online that people really liked Reigns, and he was getting pops from what I saw. I think the Punk podcast where he let the cat out of the bag that Roman is the chosen one, which coincided with that ill-fated Rumble, and Bryan being really popular, was just the perfect storm. The golden boy thing being bad stems from the fact that the WWE has positioned itself as a heel to its fans, basically. Contrast that with AEW, which is clearly a babyface. And people just generally hate it when some people get things handed to them on a silver platter because most people in life struggle and work hard to get things. And they hate that guy at work who gets the promotion due to favoritism and nepotism and whatnot. To the fans, Bryan represented them, and Roman was the guy getting special treatment. Prior to the 2015 Rumble and the Punk podcast, Roman was just a dude on the roster, working his way up, so people just saw a dude with solid work.

[A Platypus Rave]

Aug 27, 2021 0:33:23 GMT -5 fw91 said:

Perhaps I’m making this sound way too one sided, but I feel like Roman Reigns rose to the top organically (2013-2015) and was very much accepted and over with the fans. It was the booking of Rumble 2015 that did him in, and not so much being “shoved down our throats.”

That ignores that the dude was getting booed well before the Rumble.

his general overness greatly diminished post Shield Breakup, Dean/Mox was getting way better crowd reactions than him pretty much from the start of the solo runs.

and again... it had NOTHING TO DO WITH THE PODCAST.. it was obvious to anyone that was watching that they were grooming Roman to be the next guy before it came out.

They literally had him run through an entire Survivor Series team basically by himself, and broke the eliminations record of the Royal Rumble... all before Punk left the company... trying to claim the Podcast made people realize they were pushing him is laughable.

[EoE: Well There's Your Problem]

Aug 27, 2021 1:09:32 GMT -5 A Platypus Rave said:

Aug 27, 2021 0:33:23 GMT -5 fw91 said:

Perhaps I’m making this sound way too one sided, but I feel like Roman Reigns rose to the top organically (2013-2015) and was very much accepted and over with the fans. It was the booking of Rumble 2015 that did him in, and not so much being “shoved down our throats.”

That ignores that the dude was getting booed well before the Rumble.

his general overness greatly diminished post Shield Breakup, Dean/Mox was getting way better crowd reactions than him pretty much from the start of the solo runs.

and again... it had NOTHING TO DO WITH THE PODCAST.. it was obvious to anyone that was watching that they were grooming Roman to be the next guy before it came out.

They literally had him run through an entire Survivor Series team basically by himself, and broke the eliminations record of the Royal Rumble... all before Punk left the company... trying to claim the Podcast made people realize they were pushing him is laughable.

All the Punk podcast did was give the whole thing a shorthand catch-cry.

And it literally wasn't just the Rumble either, it was the month of TV beforehand where he was cutting those bad jokey promos that would end up haunting him for literally years.

[DiBiase is Good]

That during his 1997 run Bret Hart was only a heel in the USA and cheered everywhere else.
He was booed in the UK at the One Night Only PPV in September and although there are some cheers, considering the UK was supposedly one of his biggest support areas, you can audibly hear that the boos are much louder than the cheers (even though the subtitles in the Network try to claim otherwise). It definitely wasn’t the reaction that fit the narrative about his character then or now.
He did a live interview with Vince before his match and Vince brought up that the crowd were not behind him like he was claiming, Bret then responds with some lame line about it being because the UK fans watch American TV all the time (even though earlier in the interview he goes on about how the UK fans make him feel like he’s got the home-field advantage) but Bret is noticeably disappointed and admits it bothers him that he’s being booed.

[Oh Cry Me a Screwball]

Aug 27, 2021 0:33:23 GMT -5 fw91 said:

Perhaps I’m making this sound way too one sided, but I feel like Roman Reigns rose to the top organically (2013-2015) and was very much accepted and over with the fans. It was the booking of Rumble 2015 that did him in, and not so much being “shoved down our throats.”

The problem I have with this is that everyone knew Roman was going to get booed going into the show because of the smarky Philadelphia audience. This was true, and in fact, live audience reports confirmed that Roman was getting booed by the audience before the match even started (sneaky WWE production made sure any time Roman was shown on screen had no audience audio before the match), much less before Bryan was unceremoniously eliminated. Hell, I predicted that he was going to get eaten alive at the Rumble when Full Sail reacted to him vowing to be the first NXT product to win the world title at Takeover: R-Evolution in December with groans. And that was before Bryan announced his return and entry in the Rumble.

The problem was that the fall and winter months that were supposed to build to Reigns becoming champion were derailed when Roman had hernia surgery. All the shine that was supposed to go to him went to others in his absence. The Hell in a Cell match with Rollins where he would have had his first big singles gimmick match went to Ambrose instead, and Survivor Series where he would have been the sole survivor against the Authority went to Dolph Ziggler. Then, when Roman returns, his momentum is all gone, and he's got to deal with Vince writing his promos on top of it. Remember sufferin' succotash? Remember that awful promo where he told a bedtime story to Big Show? All of that was in the lead up to Rumble, on top of struggling to get back into ring shape. The same night he did the awful Big Show storytime promo had him shit in the bed against Luke Harper, where the much less smarky New Orleans crowd had a feint "Roman sucks" chant in the background.

So, with Daniel Bryan's return clearly being the big story all the fans wanted, and with Ambrose and Ziggler also being more popular choices that were outperforming him in the ring and could at least bump, sell, and make a tremendous underdog story with Brock Lesnar, Roman just had nothing going for him at the time aside from being Vince's main event went dream. Combine that with Philadelphia being the worst place to try to push a stagnant Roman Reigns over what were seen as proven commodities, he was always going to get booed. Though dumping Bryan like yesterday's garbage certainly only made it worse.

[A Platypus Rave]

Aug 27, 2021 1:16:00 GMT -5 EoE: Well There's Your Problem said:

Aug 27, 2021 1:09:32 GMT -5 A Platypus Rave said:

That ignores that the dude was getting booed well before the Rumble.

his general overness greatly diminished post Shield Breakup, Dean/Mox was getting way better crowd reactions than him pretty much from the start of the solo runs.

and again... it had NOTHING TO DO WITH THE PODCAST.. it was obvious to anyone that was watching that they were grooming Roman to be the next guy before it came out.

They literally had him run through an entire Survivor Series team basically by himself, and broke the eliminations record of the Royal Rumble... all before Punk left the company... trying to claim the Podcast made people realize they were pushing him is laughable.

All the Punk podcast did was give the whole thing a shorthand catch-cry.

and even in the podcast the point of the line wasn't a dig at Roman... it was more Punk incredulously asking... how the hell do you make someone look strong when it's a 3 on 1 handicap match... and you are the ONE winning.

[mattyy]

Aug 27, 2021 1:09:32 GMT -5 A Platypus Rave said:

Aug 27, 2021 0:33:23 GMT -5 fw91 said:

Perhaps I’m making this sound way too one sided, but I feel like Roman Reigns rose to the top organically (2013-2015) and was very much accepted and over with the fans. It was the booking of Rumble 2015 that did him in, and not so much being “shoved down our throats.”

That ignores that the dude was getting booed well before the Rumble.

his general overness greatly diminished post Shield Breakup, Dean/Mox was getting way better crowd reactions than him pretty much from the start of the solo runs.

and again... it had NOTHING TO DO WITH THE PODCAST.. it was obvious to anyone that was watching that they were grooming Roman to be the next guy before it came out.

They literally had him run through an entire Survivor Series team basically by himself, and broke the eliminations record of the Royal Rumble... all before Punk left the company... trying to claim the Podcast made people realize they were pushing him is laughable.

It was a combination of the podcast, and the fact that... so The Shield breaks up. Rollins, well he's now the cornerstone of The Authority. The Chosen One, handpicked by the COO with brand new heavy music. Ambrose? He's a madman hell bent on ruining the career of the man that ruined his family. Complete with new high octane theme music. Roman? Well he's... well basically the same guy. Like he's cool, but he's still coming out to the Shield theme, in the Shield gear, and doing the Shield spots. Add in the goofiness of him doing promos on magic beans? X-Pac Heat, Evolved.

[karl100589]

"Bossman was an amazing heel in 1999".

Bossman had the original X Pac heat. I remember audiences audibly groaning when his music hit.

[EoE: Well There's Your Problem]

I always maintain there was nothing inherently wrong with Reigns keeping the Shield aesthetic. That kind of thing can work (Bret Hart keeping the pink and black from the original Hart Foundation tag team) just as much as it might not (Marty Jannetty being a Rocker any time after 1992). It'd have been a non-issue had the rest of the booking been up to snuff, instead it came off as almost a security blanket because it wasn't.

[A Platypus Rave]

Aug 27, 2021 1:25:56 GMT -5 Oh Cry Me a Screwball said:

Aug 27, 2021 0:33:23 GMT -5 fw91 said:

Perhaps I’m making this sound way too one sided, but I feel like Roman Reigns rose to the top organically (2013-2015) and was very much accepted and over with the fans. It was the booking of Rumble 2015 that did him in, and not so much being “shoved down our throats.”

The problem I have with this is that everyone knew Roman was going to get booed going into the show because of the smarky Philadelphia audience. This was true, and in fact, live audience reports confirmed that Roman was getting booed by the audience before the match even started (sneaky WWE production made sure any time Roman was shown on screen had no audience audio before the match), much less before Bryan was unceremoniously eliminated. Hell, I predicted that he was going to get eaten alive at the Rumble when Full Sail reacted to him vowing to be the first NXT product to win the world title at Takeover: R-Evolution in December with groans. And that was before Bryan announced his return and entry in the Rumble.

The problem was that the fall and winter months that were supposed to build to Reigns becoming champion were derailed when Roman had hernia surgery. All the shine that was supposed to go to him went to others in his absence. The Hell in a Cell match with Rollins where he would have had his first big singles gimmick match went to Ambrose instead, and Survivor Series where he would have been the sole survivor against the Authority went to Dolph Ziggler. Then, when Roman returns, his momentum is all gone, and he's got to deal with Vince writing his promos on top of it. Remember sufferin' succotash? Remember that awful promo where he told a bedtime story to Big Show? All of that was in the lead up to Rumble, on top of struggling to get back into ring shape. The same night he did the awful Big Show storytime promo had him shit in the bed against Luke Harper, where the much less smarky New Orleans crowd had a feint "Roman sucks" chant in the background.

So, with Daniel Bryan's return clearly being the big story all the fans wanted, and with Ambrose and Ziggler also being more popular choices that were outperforming him in the ring and could at least bump, sell, and make a tremendous underdog story with Brock Lesnar, Roman just had nothing going for him at the time aside from being Vince's main event went dream. Combine that with Philadelphia being the worst place to try to push a stagnant Roman Reigns over what were seen as proven commodities, he was always going to get booed. Though dumping Bryan like yesterday's garbage certainly only made it worse.

Not even just dumping Bryan... literally dumping everyone.

That match was one of the WORST booked matches I have ever seen.

Kane and Big Show literally dumping everyone out of the ring that anyone cared about systematically... (and they cared about way more than just Bryan like you said Ziggler, Ryder, Ryback, Dean, all got massive pops), and at the end Roman kinda flukes into tossing them out of the ring.

And that was the ONLY story in the match... no feuds were continued, no feuds were started, it was just watch Kane and Big Show dump people and Roman kinda stumble into victory.

[Deleted]

Aug 27, 2021 1:28:33 GMT -5 A Platypus Rave said:

Aug 27, 2021 1:16:00 GMT -5 EoE: Well There's Your Problem said:

All the Punk podcast did was give the whole thing a shorthand catch-cry.

and even in the podcast the point of the line wasn't a dig at Roman... it was more Punk incredulously asking... how the hell do you make someone look strong when it's a 3 on 1 handicap match... and you are the ONE winning.

It wasn't a dig, but it shed light on the fact that Roman was a chosen one. And Vince is a heel to the fans, especially the hardcores who attend shows. And the general line of thinking is that Vince doesn't like what you like, he will bury what you like and force feed what he likes. So the idea that Vince liked Roman turned him heel. People will prefer cheering a guy like Bryan because he's an underdog, so people relate to him.

[A Platypus Rave]

Aug 27, 2021 1:28:35 GMT -5 mattyy said:

Aug 27, 2021 1:09:32 GMT -5 A Platypus Rave said:

That ignores that the dude was getting booed well before the Rumble.

his general overness greatly diminished post Shield Breakup, Dean/Mox was getting way better crowd reactions than him pretty much from the start of the solo runs.

and again... it had NOTHING TO DO WITH THE PODCAST.. it was obvious to anyone that was watching that they were grooming Roman to be the next guy before it came out.

They literally had him run through an entire Survivor Series team basically by himself, and broke the eliminations record of the Royal Rumble... all before Punk left the company... trying to claim the Podcast made people realize they were pushing him is laughable.

It was a combination of the podcast, and the fact that... so The Shield breaks up. Rollins, well he's now the cornerstone of The Authority. The Chosen One, handpicked by the COO with brand new heavy music. Ambrose? He's a madman hell bent on ruining the career of the man that ruined his family. Complete with new high octane theme music. Roman? Well he's... well basically the same guy. Like he's cool, but he's still coming out to the Shield theme, in the Shield gear, and doing the Shield spots. Add in the goofiness of him doing promos on magic beans? X-Pac Heat, Evolved.

the promos and the bigger issue was the character.

I always point to a character needs to have an obvious thing you can point to and say that is who he is.

Austin - pissed off redneck everyman
Rock - super egotistical multigenerational superstar
John Cena - hardworking white meat babyface
Hogan - 80s superhero.

Roman ... uh... "no nonsense wacky jokester that's totally a loner that also has a bunch of friends and pulls a bunch of sophmoric pranks... and a bunch of other conflicting personality traits?"

It wasn't that "They wanted him to be the next Cena" ... they wanted him to be LITERALLY EVERYTHING for EVERYONE.

[EoE: Well There's Your Problem]

Aug 27, 2021 1:36:09 GMT -5 A Platypus Rave said:

Aug 27, 2021 1:28:35 GMT -5 mattyy said:

It was a combination of the podcast, and the fact that... so The Shield breaks up. Rollins, well he's now the cornerstone of The Authority. The Chosen One, handpicked by the COO with brand new heavy music. Ambrose? He's a madman hell bent on ruining the career of the man that ruined his family. Complete with new high octane theme music. Roman? Well he's... well basically the same guy. Like he's cool, but he's still coming out to the Shield theme, in the Shield gear, and doing the Shield spots. Add in the goofiness of him doing promos on magic beans? X-Pac Heat, Evolved.

the promos and the bigger issue was the character.

I always point to a character needs to have an obvious thing you can point to and say that is who he is.

Austin - pissed off redneck everyman
Rock - super egotistical multigenerational superstar
John Cena - hardworking white meat babyface
Hogan - 80s superhero.

Roman ... uh... "no nonsense wacky jokester that's totally a loner that also has a bunch of friends and pulls a bunch of sophmoric pranks... and a bunch of other conflicting personality traits?"

It wasn't that "They wanted him to be the next Cena" ... they wanted him to be LITERALLY EVERYTHING for EVERYONE.

McFrankenmahon's babyface.

[A Platypus Rave]

Aug 27, 2021 1:35:09 GMT -5 Teemu said:

Aug 27, 2021 1:28:33 GMT -5 A Platypus Rave said:

and even in the podcast the point of the line wasn't a dig at Roman... it was more Punk incredulously asking... how the hell do you make someone look strong when it's a 3 on 1 handicap match... and you are the ONE winning.

It wasn't a dig, but it shed light on the fact that Roman was a chosen one. And Vince is a heel to the fans, especially the hardcores who attend shows. And the general line of thinking is that Vince doesn't like what you like, he will bury what you like and force feed what he likes. So the idea that Vince liked Roman turned him heel. People will prefer cheering a guy like Bryan because he's an underdog, so people relate to him.

But it didn't.

Like I said in my first response everyone already knew he was the chosen one.

He broke the record for most eliminations in both Survivor Series and Rumble appearances while Punk was in the company still... anyone that was watching KNEW that Roman was going to be their new guy...

[Oh Cry Me a Screwball]

Aug 27, 2021 1:31:45 GMT -5 karl100589 said:

"Bossman was an amazing heel in 1999".

Bossman had the original X Pac heat. I remember audiences audibly groaning when his music hit.

Bossman's gimmick of worst person ever in the Snow and Show feuds is something that I think people have warmed up to over time. It really wasn't much of a hit back in 1999.

Part of it is because those acts were only a slight step above what everyone else is doing. Do Bossman's reprehensible actions really stand out on the same show where Austin tried to murder Triple H with a live rattlesnake? Or when Chris Jericho broke Chyna's thumb with a hammer? Or when Undertaker tested Big Show by stranding him in the middle of Death Valley with no food or water?

[Chiral]

Aug 27, 2021 1:09:32 GMT -5 A Platypus Rave said:

Aug 27, 2021 0:33:23 GMT -5 fw91 said:

Perhaps I’m making this sound way too one sided, but I feel like Roman Reigns rose to the top organically (2013-2015) and was very much accepted and over with the fans. It was the booking of Rumble 2015 that did him in, and not so much being “shoved down our throats.”

That ignores that the dude was getting booed well before the Rumble.

his general overness greatly diminished post Shield Breakup, Dean/Mox was getting way better crowd reactions than him pretty much from the start of the solo runs.

and again... it had NOTHING TO DO WITH THE PODCAST.. it was obvious to anyone that was watching that they were grooming Roman to be the next guy before it came out.

They literally had him run through an entire Survivor Series team basically by himself, and broke the eliminations record of the Royal Rumble... all before Punk left the company... trying to claim the Podcast made people realize they were pushing him is laughable.

I remember him getting booed for winning the Slammy for superstar of the year despite missing a big chunk of it and not really doing anything of note.

[Dub H]

To argue Punk had anything to do with Roman being rejected is being willfully ignorant of everything at the time.