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Post by sungod2020 on Aug 30, 2022 12:00:18 GMT -5
I remember in the 2000s they tried REALLY hard to get Shelton Benjamin over. They had him score a victory over Triple H, win the IC title on three separate occasions, play a huge role in the Money in The Bank ladder match, have him interact with major stars(John Cena, Shawn Michaels, Ric Flair, RVD), gave him a manager(who was way more over than he was). And this was going on for like four years, and outside a once a year pop during his ladder matches at Wrestlemania he never connected with fans.
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Post by Triangle Lancer on Aug 30, 2022 13:25:51 GMT -5
Paul Orndorff was all over the TV in 1984. On the loop, it was he and David Schultz getting a lot of title shots against Hogan and Tito (another guy that was on damn near every week, but he did become the IC Champion).
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Post by EvenBaldobombHasAJob on Aug 30, 2022 14:02:21 GMT -5
I remember in the 2000s they tried REALLY hard to get Shelton Benjamin over. They had him score a victory over Triple H, win the IC title on three separate occasions, play a huge role in the Money in The Bank ladder match, have him interact with major stars(John Cena, Shawn Michaels, Ric Flair, RVD), gave him a manager(who was way more over than he was). And this was going on for like four years, and outside a once a year pop during his ladder matches at Wrestlemania he never connected with fans. It's sad. He was one of the best wrestlers in the company at that point but he wasn't the greatest promo guy so they saddled him with that racist mama's boy gimmick and it killed him dead.
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Post by nickcave on Aug 30, 2022 17:47:17 GMT -5
He didn't win a ton but Kanyon before he was injured in the Invasion was probably one of the most prominently booked guys after DDP, Booker T and RVD and seemed like a guy they had plans to do more with and then by the time he returned he was exclusively jobbing on Velocity
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Post by BorneAgain on Aug 30, 2022 17:56:10 GMT -5
Not quite a push, but its nuts to see how protected Dino Bravo was when wasn't terribly over outside Canada, didn't really elevate the babyfaces he worked worth, and wasn't even a larger than life character that made the company stand out.
It would be like if there was an extended period of guarded booking for latter era Ezekiel Jackson.
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Post by ThankGodForSidJustice on Aug 30, 2022 17:58:01 GMT -5
I remember in the 2000s they tried REALLY hard to get Shelton Benjamin over. They had him score a victory over Triple H, win the IC title on three separate occasions, play a huge role in the Money in The Bank ladder match, have him interact with major stars(John Cena, Shawn Michaels, Ric Flair, RVD), gave him a manager(who was way more over than he was). And this was going on for like four years, and outside a once a year pop during his ladder matches at Wrestlemania he never connected with fans. It's sad. He was one of the best wrestlers in the company at that point but he wasn't the greatest promo guy so they saddled him with that racist mama's boy gimmick and it killed him dead. I was all in on the Shelton 2004-05 face push but he's really one of those guys you can't say they didn't try with. Dude just never got over no matter how much they tried. I also remember after he lost the IC title to Carlito he started to get really botchy in his matches where it felt like every match he had he was slipping off stuff and was just really sloppy in general. That probably played a part in his face run petering out and also led to them decidiing to turn him heel with the Mama's Boy stuff. And even with that he got another good upper midcard push out of it as he got another IC title reign and was mixing it up with a lot of the top faces at the time.
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Post by GodzillaIsMyMonster on Aug 30, 2022 17:58:33 GMT -5
Not quite a push, but its nuts to see how protected Dino Bravo was when wasn't terribly over outside Canada, didn't really elevate the babyfaces he worked worth, and wasn't even a larger than life character that made the company stand out. It would be like if there was an extended period of guarded booking for Ezekiel Jackson. I mean Jackson was the last ECW champion and won the IC title
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Post by BorneAgain on Aug 30, 2022 18:07:17 GMT -5
Not quite a push, but its nuts to see how protected Dino Bravo was when wasn't terribly over outside Canada, didn't really elevate the babyfaces he worked worth, and wasn't even a larger than life character that made the company stand out. It would be like if there was an extended period of guarded booking for Ezekiel Jackson. I mean Jackson was the last ECW champion and won the IC title What I mean is imagine if after Jackson lost the IC title in 2011 (and when audiences stopped caring about) he was showing up on TV, not actively getting feuds or even getting lose to championships, but rarely getting pinned or submitted by even upper-midcard babyfaces; all because he was a big muscled guy. That's essentially what Bravo was, someone who has most of his significance and kept looking strong despite there not being much to him that would really justify it.
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Post by Celexa Bliss 54 on Aug 30, 2022 18:07:46 GMT -5
Honestly, It's only now when I go back and watch 93 and 94 WWF that I'm like "Wow, they really were trying to make Lex Luger the next Hulk Hogan." Remember that cheesy shit before Survivor Series where Lex and his family were wishing everyone a happy Thanksgiving? oof. And Luger got to celebrate with Santa at the end of the show. Imagine if they did that every year? Hogan and Santa in 87 (yeah, Hogan lost, but he was the guy standing tall at the end anyway); Megapowers and Santa in 88; Warrior and Santa in 89; Hogan, Warrior and Santa in 90; LOD and Santa in 91; Undertaker and Santa in 94; Santa gets jackknifed by Diesel in 95; Sid and Santa in 96; Bret spits on Santa in 97; Santa gets "fired" in 98; Big Show and Santa in 99; Austin drops Santa's sleigh on top of Triple H in 00; Santa pisses on WCW's grave in 01; Michaels and Santa in 02; Goldberg and Santa in 03; Orton and Santa in 04; Undertaker Chokeslam's Santa in 05; Batista and Santa in 06; Edge Spear's Santa in 07; Cena and Santa in 08 and 09; Orton, Cena and Santa in 10; Rock and Santa laugh over Cena's carcass in 11; The Shield murder Santa in 12; Santa gets "fired" again in 13; Ziggler and Santa in 14; Sheamus steals Santa's presents in 15; Goldberg and Santa in 16; Braun and Santa in 17; Brock F-5's Santa in 18; Shayna chokes out Santa in 19; Santa is forced to acknowledge the Tribal Chief in 21 (he sat out 2020 due to the pandemic) ...what were we talking about again??
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Post by sungod2020 on Aug 30, 2022 18:09:03 GMT -5
It's sad. He was one of the best wrestlers in the company at that point but he wasn't the greatest promo guy so they saddled him with that racist mama's boy gimmick and it killed him dead. I was all in on the Shelton 2004-05 face push but he's really one of those guys you can't say they didn't try with. Dude just never got over no matter how much they tried. I also remember after he lost the IC title to Carlito he started to get really botchy in his matches where it felt like every match he had he was slipping off stuff and was just really sloppy in general. That probably played a part in his face run petering out and also led to them decidiing to turn him heel with the Mama's Boy stuff. And even with that he got another good upper midcard push out of it as he got another IC title reign and was mixing it up with a lot of the top faces at the time.And even then, it was HIS MOM that got over, not him. He dosen't even make an effective heel either given his high flying moveset. Any time he tried to say something smart-allicky it just came off as unnatural, maybe due to his piss poor mic skills(he always came off as marble mouth). Considering his kayfabe accolades and the talent he was mixing it up with, he should've been way more over with what he was given.
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Post by ThankGodForSidJustice on Aug 30, 2022 18:09:23 GMT -5
Not quite a push, but its nuts to see how protected Dino Bravo was when wasn't terribly over outside Canada, didn't really elevate the babyfaces he worked worth, and wasn't even a larger than life character that made the company stand out. It would be like if there was an extended period of guarded booking for Ezekiel Jackson. Bravo was definitely one of the most overpushed guys of that era. Maybe the most. I guess maybe Bad News Brown who was protected to even more insane degrees but at least he was a good promo and had a cool gimmick. It felt like Bravo never lost in 88-89 and was always pretty protected despite really not having much going for him. He wasn't a good promo, he was an average worker at best, and wasn't that over. Also he was in his early 40's during that run so you would think they would realize that he probably didn't have much left in the tank and wouldn't be someone worth investing much into. Putting it in perspective in the 1988 and 1989 Survivor Series there were five guys that survived on both shows. Hogan, Savage, Warrior, Perfect, and Dino Bravo. He definitely sticks out like a sore thumb amongst that group. Even into 1990 when they weren't giving him protection booking anymore and he was doing more jobs he still had a good spot on the card thanks to his association with Earthquake who was in a main event program with Hogan. Therefore Bravo was getting high profile matches teaming with Quake against Hogan and Tugboat.
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bob
Salacious Crumb
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started the Madness Wars, Proudly the #1 Nana Hater on FAN
Posts: 78,377
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Post by bob on Aug 30, 2022 18:15:46 GMT -5
Virgil for maybe 6 months (I was a kid so I don't remember exactly) after he turned on the Million Dollar Man before becoming a jobber
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XIII
Bill S. Preston, Esq.
Posts: 18,533
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Post by XIII on Aug 30, 2022 18:16:29 GMT -5
I’m convinced that the WWF was using Dino Bravo and his mob connections to get Canadian bookings or something. There’s no reason for Dino to have been doing anything. Dude was not good.
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Post by ThankGodForSidJustice on Aug 30, 2022 18:18:58 GMT -5
I was all in on the Shelton 2004-05 face push but he's really one of those guys you can't say they didn't try with. Dude just never got over no matter how much they tried. I also remember after he lost the IC title to Carlito he started to get really botchy in his matches where it felt like every match he had he was slipping off stuff and was just really sloppy in general. That probably played a part in his face run petering out and also led to them decidiing to turn him heel with the Mama's Boy stuff. And even with that he got another good upper midcard push out of it as he got another IC title reign and was mixing it up with a lot of the top faces at the time.And even then, it was HIS MOM that got over, not him. He dosen't even make an effective heel either given his high flying moveset. Any time he tried to say something smart-allicky it just came off as unnatural, maybe due to his piss poor mic skills(he always came off as marble mouth). Considering his kayfabe accolades and the talent he was mixing it up with, he should've been way more over with what he was given. I also remember after his "Mom" left (she was an actress they hired via casting call who quit after two months probably due to not wanting to deal with the travel that comes with it) he started randomly wearing sunglasses and Hawaiian shirts. It seemed like such forced and yet lazy attempt to give him some character. Like see this guy has personality he wears sunglasses and Hawiian shirts. Look at how cool he is!
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Post by BorneAgain on Aug 30, 2022 18:23:49 GMT -5
And even then, it was HIS MOM that got over, not him. He dosen't even make an effective heel either given his high flying moveset. Any time he tried to say something smart-allicky it just came off as unnatural, maybe due to his piss poor mic skills(he always came off as marble mouth). Considering his kayfabe accolades and the talent he was mixing it up with, he should've been way more over with what he was given. I also remember after his "Mom" left (she was an actress they hired via casting call who quit after two months probably due to not wanting to deal with the travel that comes with it) he started randomly wearing sunglasses and Hawaiian shirts. It seemed like such forced and yet lazy attempt to give him some character. Like see this guy has personality he wears sunglasses and Hawiian shirts. Look at how cool he is! Wearing sunglasses basically was the go to lazy way in the mid aughts to make sure people knew were you were a heel. Rob Conway tried the same thing and let us not forget one Gregory Helms:
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Mozenrath
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Post by Mozenrath on Aug 30, 2022 18:38:52 GMT -5
And even then, it was HIS MOM that got over, not him. He dosen't even make an effective heel either given his high flying moveset. Any time he tried to say something smart-allicky it just came off as unnatural, maybe due to his piss poor mic skills(he always came off as marble mouth). Considering his kayfabe accolades and the talent he was mixing it up with, he should've been way more over with what he was given. I also remember after his "Mom" left (she was an actress they hired via casting call who quit after two months probably due to not wanting to deal with the travel that comes with it) he started randomly wearing sunglasses and Hawaiian shirts. It seemed like such forced and yet lazy attempt to give him some character. Like see this guy has personality he wears sunglasses and Hawiian shirts. Look at how cool he is! The "Gold Standard" run was better, at least. Still had a lot of the same issues, but he at least had better presentation.
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CMWaters
Ozymandius
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Bald and busy
Posts: 63,078
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Post by CMWaters on Aug 30, 2022 18:39:30 GMT -5
Virgil for maybe 6 months (I was a kid so I don't remember exactly) after he turned on the Million Dollar Man before becoming a jobber He did get one Hell of a pop when he clocked DiBiase with the Million Dollar Belt at Rumble 91.
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Post by BorneAgain on Aug 30, 2022 18:41:11 GMT -5
While both Benjamin and Haas ended up doing well in the grand scheme, they're definitely guys who would have immensely benefited from a Cornette like manager that could genuinely talk up their accomplishments and speak for them. Angle and Heyman somewhat pulled that off early, but they needed it long term and never quite got it.
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Post by Captain Stud Muffin (BLM) on Aug 30, 2022 18:46:49 GMT -5
While both Benjamin and Haas ended up doing well in the grand scheme, they're definitely guys who would have immensely benefited from a Cornette like manager that could genuinely talk up their accomplishments and speak for them. Angle and Heyman somewhat pulled that off early, but they needed it long term and never quite got it. Shelton could used a MVP type manager at that point in his career Hell, with the current guys i'd throw Ricochet his way
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Post by ThankGodForSidJustice on Aug 30, 2022 18:56:15 GMT -5
I also remember after his "Mom" left (she was an actress they hired via casting call who quit after two months probably due to not wanting to deal with the travel that comes with it) he started randomly wearing sunglasses and Hawaiian shirts. It seemed like such forced and yet lazy attempt to give him some character. Like see this guy has personality he wears sunglasses and Hawiian shirts. Look at how cool he is! The "Gold Standard" run was better, at least. Still had a lot of the same issues, but he at least had better presentation. I mean I guess it was more unique and felt like a more earnest to reinvent him. However after the initial shock it was just Shelton Benjamin with blonde hair.
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