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Post by Jindrak Mark on Dec 8, 2022 19:49:29 GMT -5
Doesn't help that the majority of times a major company manages to attract a bigger audience for one of these special occasions they proceed to put on a f***ing awful show. Nobody is sticking around after that. Hell even many hardcore fans gave up after Raw 25 and Brock squashing Kofi(/Cain). Even AEW's fallen into that trap before, given after Punk the remainder of that Rampage was a bunch of nothing headlined by Mox vs. Garcia well before anyone gave a shit about Garcia. And this was the second episode. Someone here a few days ago posted the card for Punk's first Dynamite and it was full of Dark level matches. I think that show was the bigger missed opportunity to hook the extra viewers but they didn't put their best foot forward for some reason. If you know you're probably going to have your biggest audience since your debut it's probably not wise to put out a half-assed card but they had Malakai Black squash Brock Anderson in the main event, The Factory v The Gunn Club, Red Velvet v Jamie Hayter when they were barely known and Mox/Darby/Eddie working a competitive match with The Wingmen. And even Punk basically just repeated his Rampage promo.
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Post by Starshine on Dec 8, 2022 20:10:25 GMT -5
Do the people who complain about this have the same hangups when they watch, oh I don't know, anything that isn't WWE? Considering almost all other TV actually has enough trust in the viewers to be able to follow basic things presented to them without beating them over the head with it.
There's just a whole lot of bad faith criticism to how AEW runs, and it almost always seems to come down to the point they don't write like WWE does. Which is a good thing!
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Post by ChitownKnight on Dec 8, 2022 20:36:42 GMT -5
I think they should save the fued for whenever Mox decides to go heel. Have Hangman beat MJF for the title sometime next year and then heel Mox takes the title off Hangman
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Post by Non Banjoble Tokens on Dec 9, 2022 1:45:44 GMT -5
Hangman is mad about the probability of Rocket Raccoon dying in the new Guardians movie, so he is taking it out on Moxley because he lives with raccoons or something.
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clifford
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Post by clifford on Dec 9, 2022 8:08:28 GMT -5
What a way to pick the absolute worst example to make your point, Lance.
Do the people who complain about AEW feuds being too complicated, too convoluted or having too many callbacks watch the show on mute? Cause Excalibur fills in the audience on literally every minor detail. Not that you'd need that to understand Hangman has beef with Mox for knocking him out and gloating about it.
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Post by TOK Hehe'd Around & Found Out on Dec 9, 2022 8:28:33 GMT -5
"Two top guys have banger match that has an indecisive finish, loser of the match wants revenge because he doesn't feel like he actually lost" is pro wrestling 101. Winning by KO isn't actually a thing in wrestling, Hangman didn't get pinned or submitted so in his mind he didn't actually get beat. He's healthy and wants revenge both against Moxley and MJF because he feels that he should be the rightful champ.
How is this hard for Storm to understand? Not only is it not complicated, it's almost too god damned straightforward.
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Post by Gerard Gerard on Dec 9, 2022 10:37:13 GMT -5
"Two top guys have banger match that has an indecisive finish, loser of the match wants revenge because he doesn't feel like he actually lost" is pro wrestling 101. Winning by KO isn't actually a thing in wrestling, Hangman didn't get pinned or submitted so in his mind he didn't actually get beat. He's healthy and wants revenge both against Moxley and MJF because he feels that he should be the rightful champ. How is this hard for Storm to understand? Not only is it not complicated, it's almost too god damned straightforward. Exactly, without wanting to dunk on Storm, but am baffled at Mox/Page being the hill to die on. It’s a super basic story and he’s acting like it’s Finnegan’s Wake.
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Post by Clash, Never a Meter Maid on Dec 9, 2022 11:06:35 GMT -5
Hangman is mad about the probability of Rocket Raccoon dying in the new Guardians movie, so he is taking it out on Moxley because he lives with raccoons or something. Hangman rightfully wants to beat up Mox because he said Baby Rocket wasn’t cute as the raccoons he’s neighbors with (to Renee’s frustration).
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Post by Milkman Norm on Dec 9, 2022 11:34:02 GMT -5
"Two top guys have banger match that has an indecisive finish, loser of the match wants revenge because he doesn't feel like he actually lost" is pro wrestling 101. Winning by KO isn't actually a thing in wrestling, Hangman didn't get pinned or submitted so in his mind he didn't actually get beat. He's healthy and wants revenge both against Moxley and MJF because he feels that he should be the rightful champ. How is this hard for Storm to understand? Not only is it not complicated, it's almost too god damned straightforward. Winning via ref stoppage is a thing though. I could go back and watch but wasn't Moxley award the match?
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Post by TOK Hehe'd Around & Found Out on Dec 9, 2022 12:04:13 GMT -5
"Two top guys have banger match that has an indecisive finish, loser of the match wants revenge because he doesn't feel like he actually lost" is pro wrestling 101. Winning by KO isn't actually a thing in wrestling, Hangman didn't get pinned or submitted so in his mind he didn't actually get beat. He's healthy and wants revenge both against Moxley and MJF because he feels that he should be the rightful champ. How is this hard for Storm to understand? Not only is it not complicated, it's almost too god damned straightforward. Winning via ref stoppage is a thing though. I could go back and watch but wasn't Moxley award the match? Yes, but it's not a standard way to win a match by TKO. Especially for someone like Hangman who has a chip on his shoulder.
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Post by eJm on Dec 9, 2022 12:04:54 GMT -5
Winning via ref stoppage is a thing though. I could go back and watch but wasn't Moxley award the match? Sure, but if you’re as competitive as both men are, who wants to win by ref stoppage? Surely that’d be like winning by throwing in the towel in boxing or MMA, doesn’t really prove anything except the officials involved have a conscience.
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Post by Cyno on Dec 9, 2022 12:07:37 GMT -5
It's like winning by dq or count out. Not really conclusive or satisfying. Especially since it had to be stopped because of a legit injury and not something planned.
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Post by pinja on Dec 9, 2022 12:09:15 GMT -5
As long as Hangman doesn't turn into Edward Edwards after being crushed with a baseball bat, them feuding is all good.
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Post by Milkman Norm on Dec 9, 2022 12:30:55 GMT -5
It's like winning by dq or count out. Not really conclusive or satisfying. Especially since it had to be stopped because of a legit injury and not something planned. But it's a legit finish. Hangman was hurt, Mox was awarded the match, Mox cut the babyface promo asking us to keep Hangman in our thoughts,it's over. In the end In gonna enjoy a program between the two of them but this path to it does nothing for me.
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Post by eJm on Dec 9, 2022 12:35:58 GMT -5
It’s a legit finish that proves nothing. If you win by DQ or win by countout or win by ref decision, it doesn’t prove anything except the official made that decision. That’s the entire point. Hangman wanted to prove himself because no definitive winner was decided, Moxley mocked him for what happened and they has fight.
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Post by Milkman Norm on Dec 9, 2022 13:26:43 GMT -5
It’s a legit finish that proves nothing. If you win by DQ or win by countout or win by ref decision, it doesn’t prove anything except the official made that decision. That’s the entire point. Hangman wanted to prove himself because no definitive winner was decided, Moxley mocked him for what happened and they has fight. I have a hard time the this idea when no definitive winner was decided when Jon Moxley hit Adam Page with a move that as a shoot stopped the match. Certainly it wasn't planned and we were all scared watching it but it was a definitive finish if we are acting as of what happens within the world of wrestling is its own reality. It only isn't definitive from my perspective if we keep moving between the real world & the wrestling world.
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Post by Jindrak Mark on Dec 9, 2022 13:26:48 GMT -5
It’s a legit finish that proves nothing. If you win by DQ or win by countout or win by ref decision, it doesn’t prove anything except the official made that decision. That’s the entire point. Ref stoppage is not even in the same stratosphere as a DQ or count-out. Those are completely unsatisfying finishes that prove absolutely nothing. Ref stoppage though is the most dominating victory you can possibly get (if it's the correct call by the referee which it clearly was here). Beating someone so bad they can't continue is way more of a devastating loss than making it to the end and losing on points or the wrestling equivalent which I guess would be having a long competitive match and just falling short/getting pinned at the end. Saying it's a shitty/inconclusive finish only makes sense in a non-kayfabe way like "damn, this screwed up the pre-planned finish we had booked." In kayfabe though surely ever blow thrown by a wrestler is with the intention of knocking out your opponent. Mox did that and won in dominant fashion. Page was beaten so bad that the ref wouldn't even allow Mox to crawl over and pin him.
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Post by eJm on Dec 9, 2022 13:37:05 GMT -5
From a story perspective, sure, you could argue that. WCW did it for most of their successful years. Never said you couldn’t and I have no idea why you thought I wasn’t saying that.
From a character perspective, Hangman has something to prove. He wouldn’t have thought that because he got injured and would have finished if he wasn’t knocked out. So of course Hangman would right away gun for him because Moxley didn’t beat him, the referee called that he did. Adding weird semantics to it just makes it sillier people are arguing this, not less.
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Post by Lizuka #BLM on Dec 9, 2022 13:40:01 GMT -5
It's not like Moxley had Hangman completely at his mercy and deliberately just kept beating on him until the ref stopped the match. He hit a move he does all the time and Hangman just happened to take it harder than people usually do and landed badly. Of course Hangman has something to prove and has reason to believe Mox got lucky.
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Post by Milkman Norm on Dec 9, 2022 13:52:07 GMT -5
You didn't really beat me because you hit me with a wrestling move that left me unable to continue is not a take I understand. Others do, that's cool.
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