Mochi Lone Wolf
Fry's dog Seymour
Development through Destruction.
Posts: 24,047
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Post by Mochi Lone Wolf on Apr 5, 2023 13:15:46 GMT -5
And, for the most part, Okada IS the babyface so he's supposed to go over often. The top heel can go over often, but not in such a way that kills off any chance to create a star people can unite and get around. At the end of the day, Pro Wrestling is an artform where you have to send people home happy more often than not. Also Okada still takes losses. Not many, but he does get pinned at times to show that it CAN happen. Not to mention he also gets pinned in multi-man matches to set up a title shot when he's champion.
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Post by Loser troll. Please ban me on Apr 5, 2023 13:18:09 GMT -5
Storylines have a tipping point.
Imagine if you were on a rollercoaster, You've waited 5 hours to get on finally, It looks crazy fun.
You get in, the bar comes down, starts moving up the lift which is really slow, you get to the crest, but it lowers back down, technical issue. This goes on 10 more times before, at last, 3 hours later you get a full run-through.
Bear in mind the ride always operates like this, always.
Do you think you'd tell your friends to go on it? Do you think you'd write a glowing review?
From an outsider's perspective, I was really rooting for WWE to prove me wrong. I may not watch it anymore but I have friends that do and the fine folks here watch it as well obviously. I wanted them to be rewarded for sticking it out, Instead, they were fed the same shit sandwich and then the following night were given a lukewarm bowl of watery diarrhea.
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Post by BradMKE on Apr 5, 2023 13:23:49 GMT -5
The way I look at it is, Cody has only been actively chasing the title since he returned at the Rumble, and half of that time he was being a cheerleader for Sami waiting for EC to be over so he could start his feud with Roman.
The Roman feud has lasted barely over a month. It was too soon. The story had just begun.
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asuka007
Fry's dog Seymour
Posts: 21,151
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Post by asuka007 on Apr 5, 2023 13:29:16 GMT -5
The way I look at it is, Cody has only been actively chasing the title since he returned at the Rumble, and half of that time he was being a cheerleader for Sami waiting for EC to be over so he could start his feud with Roman. The Roman feud has lasted barely over a month. It was too soon. The story had just begun. The Roman story has been going on for three years. Three years of him never losing, the ME scene being frozen because he is hogging the top belts. The same interference nonsense over and over and over again. And Cody’s story goes back 15 years.
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Post by Baldobomb-22-OH-MAN!!! on Apr 5, 2023 13:31:35 GMT -5
Remember what good business it was when the nWo just won all the time and never got any comeuppance?
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Post by Natural Born Farmer on Apr 5, 2023 13:32:27 GMT -5
"That's the business at its very best. That's promotion at its very best. That's storytelling at its very best. That's what you want. You want the challenger to come out a bigger star than he would've been if he won the championship Except that isn't at all what happened, and then they doubled down on it the next night.
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Post by Rolent Tex on Apr 5, 2023 13:42:05 GMT -5
Carny bullshit at its finest.
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ssdrivin
ALF
Claims to be squishy, has yet to be proven.
Posts: 1,042
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Post by ssdrivin on Apr 5, 2023 13:42:15 GMT -5
He might have a point, if we hadn't spent the past 20 years experiencing the same dismal hopeless "what's the point of even thinking my guy's going to win?" lol forever-champion wins reigns.
We know how the story goes by this point. Roman's not going to lose to your favourite guy. Just like Brock didn't lose to your favourite guy. Just like Cena didn't lose to your favourite guy. Just like HHH didn't lose to your favourite guy. Just like Hogan didn't lose to your favourite guy.
If you put one guy on top, far above the rest of the roster, with no reasonable chance of anybody coming close to beating him, what's the point? Yeah, there's the thrill of the chase, but not if every time you back another wrestler to "really do it this time" he just ends up being the next chump in a line of people getting kicked back down into the mid card with no hope of getting another shot at being up there in the upper card.
There has to be suspension of disbelief, some in-universe proof that "this time he's really gonna do it". If you spend 3 years showing that the rest of the roster can't stack up to the top guy, who cares? Who can believe the champ is going to lose any more? It's an obvious conclusion, there is no tension any more, because everybody knows what's going to happen. Which is going to be disappointment. Every single time.
Edit: Then, when you do get the shock outcome, like Brock beating Taker at Mania, it's 2 hours of shock social media hype, and then the realisation that if anybody needed the rub, it wasn't him. But you spent so long making it clear that nobody but the absolute most brutal top star could ever do it, nobody else could do it, because you booked everybody to be well out of his league. There's just no smoothness to the booking. It's just never-ending tedium, punctuated by occasional shocks to pop a rating.
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Legion
Fry's dog Seymour
Amy Pond's #1 fan
Hail Hydra!
Posts: 22,900
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Post by Legion on Apr 5, 2023 13:43:38 GMT -5
If they genuinely believe that this is compelling storyline and people will be desperate for the next chapter - they're wrong in my case.
They genuinely hooked me on the Road to 'Mania, blew the landing, had a chance to recover and then just chucked Brock back out there.
They failed in all regards, whatever the intention, whatever their potential belief.
For me anyway, I am sure there are some that are on board with what they're trying to sell.
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Post by A Platypus Rave on Apr 5, 2023 13:47:40 GMT -5
"That's the business at its very best. That's promotion at its very best. That's storytelling at its very best. That's what you want. You want the challenger to come out a bigger star than he would've been if he won the championship Except that isn't at all what happened, and then they doubled down on it the next night. Yeah I mean Finn certainly looked better coming out of the Roman feud falling off the turnbuckle right! And Cesaro after losing and then getting beaten down by Roman, the Usos and Seth! and Kevin Owens losing the same god damned way 20 times in a row!
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Chiral
Salacious Crumb
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Post by Chiral on Apr 5, 2023 13:51:07 GMT -5
I feel like the amount of comments WWE people have had to make on the finish already (more than I'm used to cuz usually they just barrel forward no matter what) shows that on some level they know it was a f*** up or are at least dimly aware the fans think so. Which I'm sure they're gonna use to build to the next shocked crowd reaction shot moment rather than reflect on why people are upset and/or continue trying to convince everyone that this was good actually.
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Post by hbkid718 on Apr 5, 2023 13:53:02 GMT -5
Everyone was mad that Cody lost myself included. But then I realized that Cody's story is exactly like his dad's story in NWA. Dusty wanted to win the World Title from Ric Flair but The 4 Horsemen always stopped it from happening. Eventually Dusty won. So I think that's where this is going. Also, Roman is 50 days away from being Champion for 1000 Days, so I think they want him to get there & then he will lose the title. And now, Brock taking Cody out is another barrier for him to get over before getting to his goal.
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ssdrivin
ALF
Claims to be squishy, has yet to be proven.
Posts: 1,042
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Post by ssdrivin on Apr 5, 2023 13:58:34 GMT -5
Everyone was mad that Cody lost myself included. But then I realized that Cody's story is exactly like his dad's story in NWA. Dusty wanted to win the World Title from Ric Flair but The 4 Horsemen always stopped it from happening. Eventually Dusty won. So I think that's where this is going. Also, Roman is 50 days away from being Champion for 1000 Days, so I think they want him to get there & then he will lose the title. And now, Brock taking Cody out is another barrier for him to get over before getting to his goal. See, what you're doing there is you're thinking logically, you're thinking long-term booking, with a plan, with a historical context. Which I don't trust WWE to do. I'm not saying they wouldn't ever think to connect Cody with Dusty, they did do that whole Goldust/Stardust thing, and they do have some sense of historical respect and remembrance occasionally, but given how prone they are to booking like continuity is optional and the only thing that matters is whoever they picked to be the top guy, I wouldn't trust them to execute on that. They just don't seem to care about story enough, it's always (a very distant) second place to whatever it is they want to cram down our throats right now.
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Post by SneakMan on Apr 5, 2023 14:01:42 GMT -5
Except that isn't at all what happened, and then they doubled down on it the next night. Yeah I mean Finn certainly looked better coming out of the Roman feud falling off the turnbuckle right! And Cesaro after losing and then getting beaten down by Roman, the Usos and Seth! and Kevin Owens losing the same god damned way 20 times in a row! To be fair, Cesaro became a world champion after his Roman feud. Granted it was in another company, but still.
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Post by kingoftheindies on Apr 5, 2023 14:01:50 GMT -5
Everyone was mad that Cody lost myself included. But then I realized that Cody's story is exactly like his dad's story in NWA. Dusty wanted to win the World Title from Ric Flair but The 4 Horsemen always stopped it from happening. Eventually Dusty won. So I think that's where this is going. Also, Roman is 50 days away from being Champion for 1000 Days, so I think they want him to get there & then he will lose the title. And now, Brock taking Cody out is another barrier for him to get over before getting to his goal. Fine in theory... if they didn't do the same thing with every Roman title defense since the Bloodline started. I legit do not think he's had a title defense since the Triple Threat in 2021 vs Edge and Bryan that didn't involve interference. And even looking at history... Triple H during the reign of terror defended the title a lot due to interference and a sledgehammer. JBL defended the title due to interference. Jinder Mahal defended the title due to interference.. Randy Orton and Seth Rollins during the Authority both defended the titles all the time due to interference... and none of those have gone on this long. The issue is WWE thinks that they're protecting babyfaces in having the heel win by cheating. Again a fine theory if the heel get their comeuppance. But for a long time in WWE it's not really that it's a cheap way to get out of an angle. Maybe they do do this with Cody but when they've used the same finish for at least 2 years? It's hard to get optimistic.
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BRV
Bill S. Preston, Esq.
Wants him some Taco Flavored Kisses.
Posts: 17,012
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Post by BRV on Apr 5, 2023 14:05:45 GMT -5
Turning fans' expectations on their head doesn't always work, though. WWE gets so caught up in subverting expectations and shocking their fans that they do it at the expense of the story being told.
If Andy Dufresne got apprehended at the border and was returned to Shawshank State Prison, moviegoers wouldn't be leaving the cinema saying to themselves, "Man, I can't wait to see how he tries to escape in The Shawshank Redemption 2!"
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Perd
Patti Mayonnaise
Leslie needs to butt out for fear of receiving The Bunghole Buster
Posts: 32,027
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Post by Perd on Apr 5, 2023 14:18:25 GMT -5
I don’t know, maybe I’m a simpleton. But, to me, you book story lines to hook a crowd in. With the ultimate goal being that, when the story pays off, the crowd loses their minds. You had that. You had that on your biggest show of the year. What are you waiting for? You don’t have Steve Austin lose at Mania 14. No, he wins. He beats the dastardly heel. Because that’s the entire point of everything you did. It’s really not that complicated. And
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asuka007
Fry's dog Seymour
Posts: 21,151
Member is Online
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Post by asuka007 on Apr 5, 2023 14:22:08 GMT -5
Everyone was mad that Cody lost myself included. But then I realized that Cody's story is exactly like his dad's story in NWA. Dusty wanted to win the World Title from Ric Flair but The 4 Horsemen always stopped it from happening. Eventually Dusty won. So I think that's where this is going. Also, Roman is 50 days away from being Champion for 1000 Days, so I think they want him to get there & then he will lose the title. And now, Brock taking Cody out is another barrier for him to get over before getting to his goal. Cody isn’t Dusty. Trying to force them to be 1 to 1 is just not a good way to go. Cody has had his adversity, for a decade+ now. This is just dragging things out for the sake of it. Meanwhile the entire main event scene is still stuck in place, and Raw has no top champion, because Roman isn’t allowed to ever lose.
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No Longer a Produceman
Dennis Stamp
Will Make You an Offer You Can't Refuse
Evolving into Geckoman
Posts: 4,377
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Post by No Longer a Produceman on Apr 5, 2023 14:29:43 GMT -5
I find it hard to believe Heyman can talk with his head so far up Vince's ass.
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4real
Wade Wilson
Posts: 27,930
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Post by 4real on Apr 5, 2023 14:31:01 GMT -5
They are playing with fire here really. It’s a gamble if they think Cody will get over more with the chase. Personally I don’t think he will and the fans will turn on him. Fans are pissed, fed up of Roman & think Cody is a loser. Great job.
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