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Post by eJm on Apr 5, 2023 15:52:22 GMT -5
Thanks everyone for their responses on my post. You all make valid points. I should have mentioned that I never watched anything from Dusty Rhodes' feud with The Horsemen, as I only watched WWE starting in 1987. I only read stuff about Dusty, so I guess I was completely wrong. Forget everything that I posted. I apologize. No, you have a legit story you could tell with Cody that might make things more palatable. The trouble is that they’re not going to go with it. That’s not how they work, which is a shame because morphing that to modern sensibilities might work.
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Post by DrBackflipsHoffman on Apr 5, 2023 15:56:58 GMT -5
I WANT SOMEBODY TO SIT WRESTLERS DOWN AND EXPLAIN TO THEM THEY GENERALLY ARENT VERY GOOD AT WHAT IT IS THEY ASK PEOPLE TO BELIEVE EVERY TIME THEY TAKE PART IN SOME OF THE WORST AND MOST CONFUSING TELEVISION MOST PEOPLE HAVE SEEN UP TO THAT POINT, YOU ARENT CLEVER, LADS!!!!
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Post by xCompackx on Apr 5, 2023 15:57:41 GMT -5
I mean, what's he gonna say, "Yeah we dropped the ball there". I'm sure they know it was an unpopular decision. The solution to that is don't screw up the writing in the first place. Then Heyman wouldn't have to politic answers to avoid saying "yeah, we suck". Just... don't suck in the first place! It's not that hard! It's not like writing a story that makes sense or sends people home happy is some kind of mystery. TV and movie producers have been doing it forever. The guy gets the girl. The good vanquishes the evil. The fan favourite wins the day. Sure, we're talking a story that runs for 2 years, not 2 hours, but the principle is the same. You can't just have the movie end exactly back where it started, or the bad guy winning, otherwise what was the point? You failed to tell the story about the good guy having to overcome the odds, because he didn't, he sucked, and it was all for nothing. Who's going to come back for Stagnant Misery II: We're Doing It On Purpose? 1000% agree. Cody VS Roman was literally the easiest story ever to book, and they still failed. Just unfortunate the people who can't do anything about it are the ones having to defend it.
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ssdrivin
ALF
Claims to be squishy, has yet to be proven.
Posts: 1,042
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Post by ssdrivin on Apr 5, 2023 16:00:56 GMT -5
I WANT SOMEBODY TO SIT WRESTLERS DOWN AND EXPLAIN TO THEM THEY GENERALLY ARENT VERY GOOD AT WHAT IT IS THEY ASK PEOPLE TO BELIEVE EVERY TIME THEY TAKE PART IN SOME OF THE WORST AND MOST CONFUSING TELEVISION MOST PEOPLE HAVE SEEN UP TO THAT POINT, YOU ARENT CLEVER, LADS!!!! Well, it's not the wrestlers though, is it? We all respect these guys for training hard, going out there every week, putting on a show, working their butts off to do what they do, but we know that ultimately they're performing the story they're given to act out. Which happens to suck, really badly, because the people writing it (or the guy telling them what to write) can't understand how to construct an engaging narrative. It's not Cody's fault, and it's not Roman's fault either, they can only work with what they're given. Unfortunately what they're given is a steaming pile of nonsensical misery booking that drags on longer than the actual Roman Empire.
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khali
Dennis Stamp
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Post by khali on Apr 5, 2023 16:03:04 GMT -5
Someone should tally the finishes Roman has had to his PPV title matches, just to see how many times they’ve re-used the exact same things.
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Post by Bang Bang Bart on Apr 5, 2023 16:09:51 GMT -5
I just... there were so many simple answers to the "...and then what?" and "next chapter of the story" bullshit, and I never even once claimed that I could write shit. - Cody beats Roman, but only just barely and his ribs are (kayfabe) shattered after Roman hit him with a spear that damn near knocked Cody out of his boots. - He shows up on Raw the next night, the battered, bruised, broken but defiant new champion... ready to celebrate with his people, the audience. - Brock comes out and straight up kills Cody like he did on Monday, and then on the next Raw says that Cody's title is his at *insert PPV name here* - Cody, now even more (kayfabe) injured, still has to be a fighting champion leading up to big showdown with Brock, and every match, even with jobbers, takes a bigger toll on him physically, and maybe even mentally. - Then you have your Cody/Lesnar match, that you could maybe drag out another 3 months if you wanted to, because you can throw in a pissed off Roman Reigns into the mix, intermingling Roman's crumbling bloodline faction drama into it as well. See? That took me 5 minutes, and I'm a complete idiot. Here’s my “and then what?” on the Bloodline side of things: - Roman disappears after the loss at Mania. This factors into the Backlash main event being a “winner take all” six-man tag with Cody/KO & Sami vs. The Usos and…. Solo, who’s tasked by Roman to fill in for him to prove his worth to the Bloodline. - Good guys win at Backlash with Jey eating the pin. - next Smackdown after Backlash, Roman returns and holds a “State of the Bloodline” segment. He chews out Jey for losing the six-man tag match and punishes him by beating him down. He orders Jimmy and Solo to fall in line by joining in the punishment of Jey, which they do reluctantly. - Money in the Bank: Solo qualifies and is ordered by Roman and Heyman to win the briefcase on behalf of the Bloodline (i.e. surrendering the briefcase to Roman). This is where we get the proper Usos vs. Sami/KO rematch for the belts, with Roman threatening Jey and Jimmy to win at all costs. - Solo fails to win MiTB (won by… we’ll say LA Knight) and the Usos come up short in the tag title rematch. This forces Roman to officially come back and invoke his rematch clause against Cody for SummerSlam. - Roman demands for the Bloodline to accompany him at ringside for the SummerSlam match. In the match, they actively choose to ignore Roman’s orders to help him, which leads to Cody retaining cleanly. - post-match, Roman berates Solo and the Usos for another failure, and this is where we finally see the “Scar gets eaten by the hyenas” moment with the Bloodline turning against Roman after months of abuse and gaslighting. - this would be where Roman decides that he can’t trust his own family, so he brings in Tama Tonga and Tanga Loa, the former Guerrillas of Destiny, as his new enforcers. They’d be feuding with the Usos. There. Five months worth of story for the Bloodline if Roman had lost at Mania.
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Post by eJm on Apr 5, 2023 16:13:31 GMT -5
I WANT SOMEBODY TO SIT WRESTLERS DOWN AND EXPLAIN TO THEM THEY GENERALLY ARENT VERY GOOD AT WHAT IT IS THEY ASK PEOPLE TO BELIEVE EVERY TIME THEY TAKE PART IN SOME OF THE WORST AND MOST CONFUSING TELEVISION MOST PEOPLE HAVE SEEN UP TO THAT POINT, YOU ARENT CLEVER, LADS!!!! Well, it's not the wrestlers though, is it? We all respect these guys for training hard, going out there every week, putting on a show, working their butts off to do what they do, but we know that ultimately they're performing the story they're given to act out. Which happens to suck, really badly, because the people writing it (or the guy telling them what to write) can't understand how to construct an engaging narrative. It's not Cody's fault, and it's not Roman's fault either, they can only work with what they're given. Unfortunately what they're given is a steaming pile of nonsensical misery booking that drags on longer than the actual Roman Empire. Yeah, it’s one of the reasons my investment’s gone down in the company. Like…you could come up and train with everything WWE’s been perceived to want from you, you could go through the whole system and get recommendations of all the agents you can and then the next thing you know, you’re booked so poorly, people take you less seriously and the company blames you for it. It’s shit, to be honest.
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ssdrivin
ALF
Claims to be squishy, has yet to be proven.
Posts: 1,042
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Post by ssdrivin on Apr 5, 2023 16:28:58 GMT -5
Well, it's not the wrestlers though, is it? We all respect these guys for training hard, going out there every week, putting on a show, working their butts off to do what they do, but we know that ultimately they're performing the story they're given to act out. Which happens to suck, really badly, because the people writing it (or the guy telling them what to write) can't understand how to construct an engaging narrative. It's not Cody's fault, and it's not Roman's fault either, they can only work with what they're given. Unfortunately what they're given is a steaming pile of nonsensical misery booking that drags on longer than the actual Roman Empire. Yeah, it’s one of the reasons my investment’s gone down in the company. Like…you could come up and train with everything WWE’s been perceived to want from you, you could go through the whole system and get recommendations of all the agents you can and then the next thing you know, you’re booked so poorly, people take you less seriously and the company blames you for it. It’s shit, to be honest. Then you get fired or get so sick of it that you quit, go to Impact, or AEW, or Japan, or Mexico, build yourself back up again, get bucketloads of experience and serious respect as a seasoned professional, WWE dumps a mountain of money on your doorstep to reacquire world-class talent they don't want anyone else to have, and you still get treated like a mid card scrub. Yay!
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Chiral
Salacious Crumb
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Post by Chiral on Apr 5, 2023 16:41:03 GMT -5
Someone should tally the finishes Roman has had to his PPV title matches, just to see how many times they’ve re-used the exact same things. Also the amount of times a TV taping was just him brooding in his room wondering if [Bloodline member] will betray him.
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Post by mrtuesday on Apr 5, 2023 16:44:58 GMT -5
Storylines have a tipping point. Imagine if you were on a rollercoaster, You've waited 5 hours to get on finally, It looks crazy fun. You get in, the bar comes down, starts moving up the lift which is really slow, you get to the crest, but it lowers back down, technical issue. This goes on 10 more times before, at last, 3 hours later you get a full run-through. Bear in mind the ride always operates like this, always. Do you think you'd tell your friends to go on it? Do you think you'd write a glowing review? From an outsider's perspective, I was really rooting for WWE to prove me wrong. I may not watch it anymore but I have friends that do and the fine folks here watch it as well obviously. I wanted them to be rewarded for sticking it out, Instead, they were fed the same shit sandwich and then the following night were given a lukewarm bowl of watery diarrhea. I don't know where I saw this, but it's like Marvel releases Infinity War. The movie ends as it did. A year later, they release Infinity War 2. Where the heroes face Thanos again. And lose again A year later, Infinity War 3. Heroes lose to Thanos yet again. Each year, another Infinity War. Same result. We've reached "Infinity War 10: Endgame". And we get the heroes finally winning. But no one cares. Theater is half full. Critics barely cover it. It's an ending. But an ending that's come far too late. That is WWE right now.
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Post by simplydurhamcalling on Apr 5, 2023 17:08:31 GMT -5
Bruce always uses the "and then what" line.
It just does not apply in this case.
Cody wins and then you have ready made feuds/matches with Seth, Gunther (if he lost the IC title instead or go title Vs title at Summerslam), Brock would be a fresh match, Drew if you want to build a story around their brief history as a team.
For Roman you have the dissension of The Bloodline which could still involve Owens and Zayn.
Roman wins and then you have...a Cody rematch, a load of other rematches and stretch the dissension angle to potential disinterest?
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Xxcjb01xX [PIECE OF: SH-]
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Post by Xxcjb01xX [PIECE OF: SH-] on Apr 5, 2023 17:10:19 GMT -5
"That's the business at its very best. That's promotion at its very best. That's storytelling at its very best. That's what you want. You want the challenger to come out a bigger star than he would've been if he won the championship, because then where do you go from there? What's the story to tell? Now you know the story. It's Cody's redemption. He's coming back from what was just taken from him, from the defeat that he suffered that he didn't deserve to have to have inflicted on him." "You hope this is the one. You think this is the one. You're sure this is the one. You watch the match happening and you go 'You know this is the one,' and then it turns out not to be the one. And you go 'Oh, man — I can't wait to see the next chapter.'" Read More: www.wrestlinginc.com/1249333/paul-heyman-comments-on-fans-emotional-reactions-to-wrestlemania-39-main-event-result/No Paul, I do not go "Can't wait for the next chapter" after almost four f***ing years of this, and neither did a lot of people, they've just given up on caring about what's next Hope you're nice and cozy with your head up McMahon's ass lmfao
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Post by A Platypus Rave on Apr 5, 2023 17:11:02 GMT -5
Bruce always uses the "and then what" line. It just does not apply in this case. Cody wins and then you have ready made feuds/matches with Seth, Gunther (if he lost the IC title instead or go title Vs title at Summerslam), Brock would be a fresh match, Drew if you want to build a story around their brief history as a team. For Roman you have the dissension of The Bloodline which could still involve Owens and Zayn. Roman wins and then you have...a Cody rematch, a load of other rematches and stretch the dissension angle to potential disinterest? yeah going for "and then what" fits wiht Roman retaining... not so much with Cody winning. And then... Cody is a made man and you have him go on to matches with Brock, Gunther, and other heels you can now build up since the main one isn't completely clogged. Roman and the BLoodline start having problems with each other and starts imploding... maybe Solo decides he should be in charge cause he's the only one that has gotten things done recently... etc.
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Xxcjb01xX [PIECE OF: SH-]
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Post by Xxcjb01xX [PIECE OF: SH-] on Apr 5, 2023 17:13:02 GMT -5
I feel like the amount of comments WWE people have had to make on the finish already (more than I'm used to cuz usually they just barrel forward no matter what) shows that on some level they know it was a f*** up or are at least dimly aware the fans think so. Which I'm sure they're gonna use to build to the next shocked crowd reaction shot moment rather than reflect on why people are upset and/or continue trying to convince everyone that this was good actually. The mental gymnastics they have to do to try and justify this was the right decision versus just giving Cody the f***ing belt so everyone would be happy and they WOULDN'T have to keep putting out PR fluff pieces of "Just wait till RAW" (Which didn't age well) or "This is booking at it's best because you totally wanna see what's next" is downright f***ing embarrassing because all you had to do was the easiest f***ing thing in the world, and you couldn't, so now you make these dumbass statements and paint your faces like the clowns you are lmfao
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XIII
Bill S. Preston, Esq.
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Post by XIII on Apr 5, 2023 17:15:37 GMT -5
Paul “George Costanza” Heyman strikes again. “Remember…it’s not a lie if you believe it.” lol
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Xxcjb01xX [PIECE OF: SH-]
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Post by Xxcjb01xX [PIECE OF: SH-] on Apr 5, 2023 17:18:20 GMT -5
I feel like WWE/Heyman/everyone involved doesn't remember that this shit was DULL and dead in the water before Sami showed up and they got lucky They had a moment with McIntyre, they lost it, and now Drew might be leaving the company he's been damaged so hard from singing in front of his home country after losing Then Sami came along, gave the Bloodline a different flavor, had a hugely successful heat moment at the Rumble, then Sami lost in Montreal and it sucked but "It's ok Cody's winning" And then not only did Cody lose, he lost the EXACT SAME WAY Drew did, and neither Drew or Cody sold it, they were just like "Oh well ho hum Roman was the better man" when that's not true! Like why when Cody said "I had you" he doesn't recognize the giant Uso in the room? That makes him look like shit alone, not even factoring in hos he lost and then the super heat beatdown he got to end the night It is dull, it's the same shit, and they want to justify keeping it going while ignoring the big caveat that people don't want to see the Bloodline keep succeeding, they want to see them LOSE, that's why Night 1 was a triumph and Night 2 undid it all and it was a return to the bullshit reality that WWE can't escape, made only worse with the realization that Vince is back Alvarez said it was like the ending of Dallas where Bobby stepped out of the shower and the whole last season turned out to be a dream... the last like 5-6 months of promise and hope? All a dream, and we're just... back to this lol
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spagett
Hank Scorpio
Great Job!
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Post by spagett on Apr 5, 2023 17:33:14 GMT -5
Looking forward to another year of Roman turning up once a month to sit in a room and seethe over whether or not Jey or Jimmy or Solo will betray him. And then they don't.
Also his 6 or 7 matches that all follow the same formula. Ref bump, challenger gets visual pin, outside interference from Bloodline, Roman wins.
As opposed to Cody winning and you know, them finally doing something new in the main event. Can't be having that.
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Post by Bang Bang Bart on Apr 5, 2023 17:47:25 GMT -5
Bruce always uses the "and then what" line. It just does not apply in this case. Cody wins and then you have ready made feuds/matches with Seth, Gunther (if he lost the IC title instead or go title Vs title at Summerslam), Brock would be a fresh match, Drew if you want to build a story around their brief history as a team. For Roman you have the dissension of The Bloodline which could still involve Owens and Zayn. Roman wins and then you have...a Cody rematch, a load of other rematches and stretch the dissension angle to potential disinterest? Shit, the Brock beatdown finish on Raw would actually have meant a kickass first feud for the champ instead of “lol, this guy’s a dumb loser”.
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fw91
Patti Mayonnaise
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Post by fw91 on Apr 5, 2023 17:50:01 GMT -5
Sorta see his point with the first paragraph, but he lost me on the second.
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Post by Milkman Norm on Apr 5, 2023 17:59:43 GMT -5
Everyone was mad that Cody lost myself included. But then I realized that Cody's story is exactly like his dad's story in NWA. Dusty wanted to win the World Title from Ric Flair but The 4 Horsemen always stopped it from happening. Eventually Dusty won. So I think that's where this is going. Also, Roman is 50 days away from being Champion for 1000 Days, so I think they want him to get there & then he will lose the title. And now, Brock taking Cody out is another barrier for him to get over before getting to his goal. Except that Dusty had the book, Dusty was a big star in Florida & Georgia by the time Flair got to the Carolina's & Dusty never needed to be the long term champion because he's done it already by the time of the Horseman. I don't think a short Bash 86 run would benefit Cody. Note: Typed before I read the post on this page about not having watched Crockett TV.
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