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Post by BlackHoleMark on May 25, 2007 10:37:23 GMT -5
Since when was there a rule that said only homegrown guys needed to be pushed? It's a delicate balance mainstream promotions have to make. In WWE's case, they tend refuse to push anyone BUT their homegrown guys--John Cena, Randy Orton, Bobby Lashley--while guys that made names for themselves elsewhere seem to remain forever in midcard hell--Chris Benoit, Tommy Dreamer, RVD. In TNA's case, they tend to do the opposite. Kurt Angle, Christian Cage, and Sting were immediately pushed to the moon, while guys that TNA had spent years grooming were pushed aside to make room--AJ Styles, Samoa Joe, Christopher Daniels. If you refuse to push outsiders, fans will complain. If you refuse to push your own guys, fans will complain. It's best to try and find a middle ground somewhere. However, WWE's insistance on strictly pushing their own home-grown guys is paying for them a bit better than TNA's strategy. You know, technically, a lot of the guys that WWE has aren't really homegrown, per se. They go out and scout the indys and the find guys to bring to OVW. Just because they appear on TV with only WWE doesn't mean they're "homegrown." No one in the big 2 is really homegrown.
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Post by mysterydriver on May 25, 2007 11:01:27 GMT -5
I just wanted to bring that up. Ok, you brought it up. I don't know what it's supposed to prove. That's what Vince always does. Whenever the fans are just disgusted with him he works it into his character. He screws Bret Hart after years of loyalty on Bret's part? Suddenly it becomes his new character! "I'm the evil heel who screws over deserving wrestlers!"He puts on an awful disgrace that gets fans chanting TNA? That's intentional too..... yeah the evil heel hates the fans and is trying to punish them..... Right..... It's the business equivalent of a guy who trips and knocks over a bookcase and then says proudly, "I MEANT to do that!" ... Someone woke up on the wrong side of the bed. You forgot part of my point as you tried to act snide about my comments: TNA's failure to listen to the fans they claim to love. Christy and VKM's interview segment...on a PPV...got a "We want wrestling" chant. What happened? The VKM/Christy angle. Most of which involved very little wrestling aside from the "special" challenge matches where VKM beat The HeartThrobs and Seritonin. Oh..don't forget the Christy/BFOG match! The whole thing was irritating and many people consider it the worst part of TNA. At least WWE can take bad moments and make them work in storylines. You can bash that approach, but is better than ignoring the crowd and them making them put up with an irritating angle with no real good/bad guy that also seems to lack a point.
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Post by thestinger on May 25, 2007 11:03:26 GMT -5
No one in the big 2 is really homegrown. THANK YOU. Christian has been in TNA for 16 months. He's a TNA guy now. When the WWE had Eddie and Benoit or Jericho as world champions nobody was like "These are WCW guys!!!" And when those same three were champions in WCW nobody was going "Those are ECW guys!!" This homegrown talent nonsense needs to stop. Companies should push whomever is talented, committed and will draw money regardless of how many years they worked for this company or that one.
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Post by Juggalo/Hulkamaniac on May 25, 2007 11:09:13 GMT -5
No one in the big 2 is really homegrown. THANK YOU. Christian has been in TNA for 16 months. He's a TNA guy now. When the WWE had Eddie and Benoit or Jericho as world champions nobody was like "These are WCW guys!!!" And when those same three were champions in WCW nobody was going "Those are ECW guys!!" This homegrown talent nonsense needs to stop. Companies should push whomever is talented, committed and will draw money regardless of how many years they worked for this company or that one. No.
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Post by thestinger on May 25, 2007 11:09:57 GMT -5
You forgot part of my point as you tried to act snide about my comments: No, I REALLY didn't see your point, despite my best efforts. The whole thing was irritating and many people consider it the worst part of TNA. I'm one of those people. I won't defend this garbage. YOU however are defending Trump/Rosie so who is being irrational? I will celebrate very soon when VKM are gone from TNA and back in 'sports entertainment' where they belong. At least WWE can take bad moments and make them work in storylines. Well it's only your opinion that WWE has made bad moments 'work' in storylines. The garbage still happened. Stuff like that SHOULD be forgotten and never mentioned again -- and I would have been glad if that would have happened with VKM/Christy.
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Post by hollywood on May 25, 2007 11:15:47 GMT -5
It's a delicate balance mainstream promotions have to make. In WWE's case, they tend refuse to push anyone BUT their homegrown guys--John Cena, Randy Orton, Bobby Lashley--while guys that made names for themselves elsewhere seem to remain forever in midcard hell--Chris Benoit, Tommy Dreamer, RVD. In TNA's case, they tend to do the opposite. Kurt Angle, Christian Cage, and Sting were immediately pushed to the moon, while guys that TNA had spent years grooming were pushed aside to make room--AJ Styles, Samoa Joe, Christopher Daniels. If you refuse to push outsiders, fans will complain. If you refuse to push your own guys, fans will complain. It's best to try and find a middle ground somewhere. However, WWE's insistance on strictly pushing their own home-grown guys is paying for them a bit better than TNA's strategy. You know, technically, a lot of the guys that WWE has aren't really homegrown, per se. They go out and scout the indys and the find guys to bring to OVW. Just because they appear on TV with only WWE doesn't mean they're "homegrown." No one in the big 2 is really homegrown. What matters here is perception. Because the WWE takes guys from the indies where they've never seen a national stage and grooms them in OVW, they're seen as "homegrown" in the eyes of the national audience. In TNA's case, many of their top stars were already big names on a national stage before TNA snagged them. The result is they aren't really seen as "homegrown" within TNA. You can debate on whether or not that's fair all day long, but it's still how people perceive it. Insisting that it's otherwise won't change it. Pro wrestling fans are rarely ever entirely "fair" in their judgements, but they're the fans TNA is trying to cater to. Complaining about how "unfair" those fans are is only going to drive them away.
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Post by thestinger on May 25, 2007 11:29:55 GMT -5
You can debate on whether or not that's fair all day long, but it's still how people perceive it. Insisting that it's otherwise won't change it. Pro wrestling fans are rarely ever entirely "fair" in their judgements, but they're the fans TNA is trying to cater to. Complaining about how "unfair" those fans are is only going to drive them away. Just don't make the mistake of assuming all fans perceive things the way you do. Different fans have different perceptions. Just because you still perceive Christian as a WWE guy, doesn't mean I do. It's all about your own personal viewing history. Like how everyone on this board refers to Joe as one of the "TNA" guys they need to push, but to a hardcore ROH fan, Joe is one of theirs. TNA can't and shouldn't take into consideration the fact that SOME fans may still view Christian as WWE despite the fact that he's been main eventing for almost two years. Like I wrote earlier: Companies should push whomever is talented, committed and will draw money regardless of how many years they worked for this company or that one.
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Post by hollywood on May 25, 2007 11:32:51 GMT -5
You can debate on whether or not that's fair all day long, but it's still how people perceive it. Insisting that it's otherwise won't change it. Pro wrestling fans are rarely ever entirely "fair" in their judgements, but they're the fans TNA is trying to cater to. Complaining about how "unfair" those fans are is only going to drive them away. Just don't make the mistake of assuming all fans perceive things the way you do. Different fans have different perceptions. Just because you still perceive Christian as a WWE guy, doesn't mean I do. It's all about your own personal viewing history. Like how everyone on this board refers to Joe as one of the "TNA" guys they need to push, but to a hardcore ROH fan, Joe is one of theirs. TNA can't and shouldn't take into consideration the fact that SOME fans may still view Christian as WWE despite the fact that he's been main eventing for almost two years. Like I wrote earlier: Companies should push whomever is talented, committed and will draw money regardless of how many years they worked for this company or that one. The thing is, it's not just me. Plenty of other people on this board have expressed the same feeling. And plenty of casual, non-IWC fans feel the same way. I can't count the number of people I heard after the show saying things like "Man, their guys aren't near as good as Kurt."
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Post by mysterydriver on May 25, 2007 11:33:13 GMT -5
You forgot part of my point as you tried to act snide about my comments: No, I REALLY didn't see your point, despite my best efforts. My, you just don't want to try and be nice... My point: WWE takes adverse crowd reactions and attempts to work them into storylines. A less successful version: John Cena, Master of Controversy. TNA ignores them and continues on their own plans, despite claiming that they care about the fans. I'm irrational for pointing out that the WWE used a god-awful segment, embarassing to everyone involved, and used it in a good way in the long-run? Really? I hated that thing. However, it really helped along the Trump/McMahon feud. Good for you. Yeah, just like it is your opinion that it should be forgotten. That is what this board is about. Opinions. I would've been glad if they'd forgot about VKM/Christy. But they didn't. They ignored the hatred for the feud and went about their business...entertaining very little.
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Post by hollywood on May 25, 2007 11:41:39 GMT -5
I would've been glad if they'd forgot about VKM/Christy. But they didn't. They ignored the hatred for the feud and went about their business...entertaining very little. Anyone care to guess how major women's rights groups would react to the VKM/Christy feud?
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Post by Lenny: Smooth like Keith Stone on May 25, 2007 11:43:18 GMT -5
Is the company's middle-aged non-wrestler owner NOT the world champion? Actually they don't have a middle aged champion. He's a senior citizen. ;D
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Post by mysterydriver on May 25, 2007 11:48:30 GMT -5
Is the company's middle-aged non-wrestler owner NOT the world champion? Actually they don't have a middle aged champion. He's a senior citizen. ;D Unique enough...he is better than TNA's World Champion by default!
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Post by Lenny: Smooth like Keith Stone on May 25, 2007 11:51:33 GMT -5
Actually they don't have a middle aged champion. He's a senior citizen. ;D Unique enough...he is better than TNA's World Champion by default! LOL, I will give you that. Even though i don't like Vince as ECW champ, he is certainly unique!
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Post by hollywood on May 25, 2007 11:52:48 GMT -5
Unique enough...he is better than TNA's World Champion by default! LOL, I will give you that. Even though i don't like Vince as ECW champ, he is certainly unique! This is kind of unfair at the moment since TNA's World Title is currently vacant.
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Post by mysterydriver on May 25, 2007 12:00:46 GMT -5
LOL, I will give you that. Even though i don't like Vince as ECW champ, he is certainly unique! This is kind of unfair at the moment since TNA's World Title is currently vacant. Ha-Ha! You've found the point! Vince McMahon defeats Vacant anywhere!
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Post by hollywood on May 25, 2007 12:17:47 GMT -5
This is kind of unfair at the moment since TNA's World Title is currently vacant. Ha-Ha! You've found the point! Vince McMahon defeats Vacant anywhere! I believe they've said they want an "undisputed champion." So they're going to crown one in a match that's already notorious for screwjob finishes.
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Post by thestinger on May 25, 2007 13:31:13 GMT -5
Unique enough...he is better than TNA's World Champion by default! Well I guess it really is all about opinions. I think Vacant is 10X better than Vince. By the way, if TNA ever makes Dixie Carter their world champ, I will admit that TNA is just as bad as WWE. Fair enough? This worked out really badly for me. First I say that I don't waste my time bashing WWE, then I wind up spending, what, three pages doing that? Damn if I don't look like a liar, but I guess that proves my original point: There's no point talking with fans of something if you can't stand it. I don't think I've been 'not nice' though. Just because I have no respect for WWE doesn't mean I don't respect it's fans.
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Post by Ace Diamond on May 25, 2007 13:31:32 GMT -5
Ha-Ha! You've found the point! Vince McMahon defeats Vacant anywhere! I believe they've said they want an "undisputed champion." So they're going to crown one in a match that's already notorious for screwjob finishes. Or being surrounded BY screwjob/dusty finishes.
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Post by hollywood on May 25, 2007 13:37:25 GMT -5
I believe they've said they want an "undisputed champion." So they're going to crown one in a match that's already notorious for screwjob finishes. Or being surrounded BY screwjob/dusty finishes. The future of professional wrestling, indeed...
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Post by BlackHoleMark on May 25, 2007 22:27:33 GMT -5
You know, technically, a lot of the guys that WWE has aren't really homegrown, per se. They go out and scout the indys and the find guys to bring to OVW. Just because they appear on TV with only WWE doesn't mean they're "homegrown." No one in the big 2 is really homegrown. What matters here is perception. Because the WWE takes guys from the indies where they've never seen a national stage and grooms them in OVW, they're seen as "homegrown" in the eyes of the national audience. In TNA's case, many of their top stars were already big names on a national stage before TNA snagged them. The result is they aren't really seen as "homegrown" within TNA. You can debate on whether or not that's fair all day long, but it's still how people perceive it. Insisting that it's otherwise won't change it. Pro wrestling fans are rarely ever entirely "fair" in their judgements, but they're the fans TNA is trying to cater to. Complaining about how "unfair" those fans are is only going to drive them away. But you will agree that really the only way someone can really be "homegrown" is if they have never wrestled ever and a company takes them and makes them a wrestler, correct? We aren't in disagreement.
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