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Post by Nice Guy Cody on May 26, 2007 2:57:18 GMT -5
But if you didn't know WM 23 was the highest grossing PPV EVER. That pretty much tells me they don't blow. Except that the PPV itself f***ing blew. OH, but I forgot your opinion in all things is always de facto. My bad.
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Stevie J
Samurai Cop
RING OF HONOR DEE-VEE-DEEZ~!
Posts: 2,130
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Post by Stevie J on May 26, 2007 3:10:29 GMT -5
I believe they've said they want an "undisputed champion." So they're going to crown one in a match that's already notorious for screwjob finishes. The match itself is a screw job; you have to pin a wrestler and lock someone in a cage to get PERMISSION to hang a title above the ring, at which point you WIN the title and take it down. F'n convoluted BS, but then again this is the same company that thought a 17 man reverse battle royale was a good idea. The worst part is even the KOTM match won't be enough of a screw job for crowning a new champion; they'll have 20 million run-ins and powder shots and ladders being tipped over by refs to boot.
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Post by Joe on May 28, 2007 13:08:12 GMT -5
I came in very late on this, but I would like to comment on a few things said by various people here:
To thestinger:
If you enjoy watching pro wrestling, you should really give WWE chance again. A lot has changed in 16 years.
John Cena, I know you don't like him even though you have never seen him, has shown in the past year he can put on entertaining matches with anyone. His RAW match this year with HBK was a classic, as was his LMS match at the Rumble with Umaga. He has also had great matches over the past 12 months with Edge, RVD and Triple H.
Flat out, the guy can go. He is not a "rapping wrestler," he is a wrestler who made a rap album. What does one have to do with other?
Other comments:
--The Trump-Rosie thing was designed to suck. Its called building a storyline. The whole point of the Trump-Vince feud was to showcase Vince as an arrogant, heelish promoter who felt so far above his consumer that he needed to be humbled.
To quote the Mr. McMahon character's notion that he "knows what the fans want more than they do," is to ignore the Vince McMahon who has publicly stated that the fans made Steve Austin the biggest draw ever and that the fans made Mick Foley a three-time World champion.
One is a fictional character who on a television program, the other is the owner of a company that is in the business of entertaining its fans. A moron could figure out which one to pay attention.
--TNA's biggest problem is not that they use old WWE or WCW wrestlers, but that they use the wrong ones. It doesn't take a genius to realize that if you are going to sell yourself as the "New Face of Pro Wrestling," you shouldn't make two of your centerpieces be guys who headlined at the last Nitro.
There is nothing wrong with pushing Christian, Tomko, or Rhyno. If RVD joins TNA, he should be pushed to the moon.
However, it is bad for business when you push guys like Kurt Angle (a broken down, drug addicted mental case), Scott Steiner, (a broken down mental case who may or may not be a drug addict), Rick Steiner (hasn't been good in well over 10 years), the Old Age Outlaws (were extremely over 10 years ago, but as has been shown in the past 12 months, anything D-X gets over huge) and Sting (another fossil who was washed up the first time TNA experimented with bringing him in).
It is true that new guys can get over with help from the old guys, no one in TNA seems to be getting over by doing programs with Sting or Kurt Angle. Samoa Joe has lost a ton of momentum since his first match with Angle, while Abyss has become a parody of what he was supposed to be since the start of his program with Sting. Demoting your new "stars" should not be the intent of having them work with established names.
It should also be noted that many new stars get themselves over by just going out and stealing the show.
Steve Austin got over with help from others, but it was the character of Stone Cold that really made him.
The Rock and Triple H got over by having a lot of charisma and a hell of a feud with one another.
John Cena may have gotten the final push by Triple H at last year's WrestleMania, but he was already the guy by that point. He got himself over by captivating and polarizing crowds and delivering entertaining matches.
--I had to laugh when I read the poster's comments about WWE not pushing anyone who became a star in another federation. He used names like Benoit and RVD to back up his point.
Didn't Chris Benoit make Triple H tap out at the 20th Anniversary of WrestleMania to become World champion?
Didn't he go on to have a dominant five-month run with the belt?
Didn't Rob Van Dam simultaneously hold the WWE and ECW belts until an arrest caused him to lose them?
For that matter, haven't Chris Jericho, Eddie Guerrero, Rey Misterio and Booker T, all guys synonymous with WCW have pretty good runs with either the WWE or World titles?
The idea that Vince doesn't push people from other federations died with the Invasion. Truthfully, it goes back to the late 80s and early 90s, when nearly every promoter had the same practice. Ask former UWF guys what happened when the NWA/WCW purchased that promotion.
--Finally, in regards to TNA, I don't get the appeal, either. I began watching it at its inception, and actually found it to be a somewhat entertaining promotion. Since that period, it has done nothing but gone down hill.
It is beyond me how someone can watch an Impact episode and feel the company has progressed in terms of quality since 2002.
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Post by maxx420 on May 28, 2007 14:06:44 GMT -5
--The Trump-Rosie thing was designed to suck. Its called building a storyline. The whole point of the Trump-Vince feud was to showcase Vince as an arrogant, heelish promoter who felt so far above his consumer that he needed to be humbled. "Designed to Suck"? That's why Vince practically apologozed for it the following week by reading that "Letter from Donald Trump"? So Vince WANTED the fans to chant "TNA" & "We Want Wrestling" during this skit? Rarely has this been more warranted, my friend:
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Post by Joe on May 28, 2007 14:15:47 GMT -5
--The Trump-Rosie thing was designed to suck. Its called building a storyline. The whole point of the Trump-Vince feud was to showcase Vince as an arrogant, heelish promoter who felt so far above his consumer that he needed to be humbled. "Designed to Suck"? That's why Vince practically apologozed for it the following week by reading that "Letter from Donald Trump"? So Vince WANTED the fans to chant "TNA" & "We Want Wrestling" during this skit? Rarely has this been more warranted, my friend: It's my understanding that the entire Vince-Trump thing was a work. There was no real letter and there was no real apology. If he had been seriously apologizing, he would have came out on a legit news source, sans Mr. McMahon gimmick, and apologized. That's what he did during the Mohamed Hassan fiasco. Do I think he wanted fans to chant "TNA?" Absolutely not. That has become one of the most over-played stories ever. There were a few people doing that, and those people were at ringside, so they were very audible. That said, I don't think Vince thought he was going to send the Rosie impersonator and the Trump impersonator out to have a 5-star match. He knew it was going to suck, and it was set up to do so. It seemed to work out pretty good, don't you think? 15 minutes of bad television led to a believable introduction of Donald Trump. That in turn, along with John Cena's drawing power, led to a monstrously successful WrestleMania.
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Swarm
Don Corleone
SWARM = RATINGS
Posts: 1,347
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Post by Swarm on May 28, 2007 14:22:02 GMT -5
But if you didn't know WM 23 was the highest grossing PPV EVER. That pretty much tells me they don't blow. Except that the PPV itself smurfing blew. Haha no it didn't what a smark. Give me a break.
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Post by maxx420 on May 28, 2007 14:24:08 GMT -5
Except that the PPV itself smurfing blew. Haha no it didn't what a smark. Give me a break. You too are a smark, pal. Don't go around using it as an insult.
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Post by Kash Flagg on May 28, 2007 14:34:31 GMT -5
Know what I got out of this thread?
Swarm thinks TNA sucks and WWE rules and nothing will change his mind. OK, that's fine. Doesn't make other's opinions right or wrong.
Juggalo, just stay out of the thread if all you can contribute is one word answers and flaming, cause you're embarrassing yourself.
Debate is good, but remember that NO ONE PERSON is right or wrong about the topic.
Cept that Vince is a senior citizen.
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Post by mysterydriver on May 28, 2007 15:42:03 GMT -5
Know what I got out of this thread? Swarm thinks TNA sucks and WWE rules and nothing will change his mind. OK, that's fine. Doesn't make other's opinions right or wrong. Juggalo, just stay out of the thread if all you can contribute is one word answers and flaming, cause you're embarrassing yourself. Debate is good, but remember that NO ONE PERSON is right or wrong about the topic. Cept that Vince is a senior citizen. Vince McMahon is NOT a senior citizen! ... ... He is a "Classic" Citizen.
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Post by Mongo & Pepe: Back in Black on May 28, 2007 16:19:25 GMT -5
This is kind of unfair at the moment since TNA's World Title is currently vacant. Ha-Ha! You've found the point! Vince McMahon defeats Vacant anywhere! Vince McMahon IS vacant!
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Dean-o
Grimlock
Haha we're having fun Maggle!
Posts: 13,865
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Post by Dean-o on May 28, 2007 16:35:44 GMT -5
Everybody bitches that TNA only uses WWE/WCW talent, but why do we have so many people crying over the fact that WCW and ECW talent gets buried in WWE for the dumb reason that "Vince didn't create them"?
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Post by rrm15 on May 28, 2007 16:37:58 GMT -5
I hate TNA too.
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Post by maxx420 on May 28, 2007 17:22:33 GMT -5
Everybody necronomicones that TNA only uses WWE/WCW talent, but why do we have so many people crying over the fact that WCW and ECW talent gets buried in WWE for the dumb reason that "Vince didn't create them"? Hypocritical double standards. This board wouldn't have as many members without them. "Why can't WWE just push Benoit to the title? Just because he's not a McMahon-made star! That's so dumb!" "Why are TNA pushing guys like Christian Cage & Sting? Just because they're big name stars! That's so dumb!"
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Post by LuckyD 8402 on May 28, 2007 17:27:25 GMT -5
Everybody necronomicones that TNA only uses WWE/WCW talent, but why do we have so many people crying over the fact that WCW and ECW talent gets buried in WWE for the dumb reason that "Vince didn't create them"? Hypocritical double standards. This board wouldn't have as many members without them. "Why can't WWE just push Benoit to the title? Just because he's not a McMahon-made star! That's so dumb!" "Why are TNA pushing guys like Christian Cage & Sting? Just because they're big name stars! That's so dumb!" I'm pretty sure everyone agrees that one of the very few things TNA is doing right is pushing Christian. And you make it sound like people are picking on poor little TNA just to be mean. Don't blame the fans because the show sucks.. and that has absolutely nothing to do with who is being pushed and who isn't. I know, I know.. let me go ahead and do it for you and get it out of the way..
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Post by maxx420 on May 28, 2007 17:31:46 GMT -5
Hypocritical double standards. This board wouldn't have as many members without them. "Why can't WWE just push Benoit to the title? Just because he's not a McMahon-made star! That's so dumb!" "Why are TNA pushing guys like Christian Cage & Sting? Just because they're big name stars! That's so dumb!" I'm pretty sure everyone agrees that one of the very few things TNA is doing right is pushing Christian. And you make it sound like people are picking on poor little TNA just to be mean. Don't blame the fans because the show sucks.. and that has absolutely nothing to do with who is being pushed and who isn't. I know, I know.. let me go ahead and do it for you and get it out of the way.. I'm not saying the show doesn't suck. It's been bad, it's slightly improving. There are some who bash it simply because it's not WWE (naming no names, most of them are gone now anyway), not saying you're in that number as you're a reasonable guy.
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Post by LuckyD 8402 on May 28, 2007 17:39:39 GMT -5
I'm pretty sure everyone agrees that one of the very few things TNA is doing right is pushing Christian. And you make it sound like people are picking on poor little TNA just to be mean. Don't blame the fans because the show sucks.. and that has absolutely nothing to do with who is being pushed and who isn't. I know, I know.. let me go ahead and do it for you and get it out of the way.. I'm not saying the show doesn't suck. It's been bad, it's slightly improving. There are some who bash it simply because it's not WWE (naming no names, most of them are gone now anyway), not saying you're in that number as you're a reasonable guy. Understood. I see a lot of people going on about how TNA only gets critisized because it isn't WWE without taking into account that TNA has generally been sucking for the better part of their debut on Spike. It's clear now that you weren't turning a blind eye to TNA's suck and blindly defending them. No mistake about it, WWE sucks too. The difference being WWE's suck makes money while TNA's suck is driving away fans and all their hope of making money.
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Dean-o
Grimlock
Haha we're having fun Maggle!
Posts: 13,865
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Post by Dean-o on May 28, 2007 17:42:56 GMT -5
I don't bash TNA because (gasp!) I don't watch it. I've tried in the past, and I just couldn't get into it. But because it just doesn't entertain me doesn't mean I'm going to spend my free time bitching about it non-stop on message boards, as if my opinion is better then any others. I can not or will never understand why WWE bashers (namely ECW) just can't seem to "let go" and enjoy life.
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Post by maxx420 on May 28, 2007 17:57:15 GMT -5
I'm not saying the show doesn't suck. It's been bad, it's slightly improving. There are some who bash it simply because it's not WWE (naming no names, most of them are gone now anyway), not saying you're in that number as you're a reasonable guy. Understood. I see a lot of people going on about how TNA only gets critisized because it isn't WWE without taking into account that TNA has generally been sucking for the better part of their debut on Spike. It's clear now that you weren't turning a blind eye to TNA's suck and blindly defending them. No mistake about it, WWE sucks too. The difference being WWE's suck makes money while TNA's suck is driving away fans and all their hope of making money. Well, I haven't watched WWE for the better part of a year. I see bits & pieces (mostly just stuff that guys post here) & I read up on what's happening. I even watched Backlash (it was free over here) & while it wasn't exactly crap... it didn't entirely blow me away either. TNA PPV's have been the same of late; every show has been gimmick overkill. I can handle a few gimmick matches a show. Even Lock Down would be okay if they didn't have ADDITIONAL gimmicks on top of the cage match stipulations! But this is the same sort of stuff that drove away fans of JCP. Dusty Rhodes' over-the-top booking & gimmickery topped off with too many heel/face turns. It's exactly what TNA was for the past while. Ironically, when Dusty was booking TNA, it was actually better than it is now. I did think that Sacrifice was better than Backlash. It wasn't as overly gimmicked as previous TNA PPV's & was a decent show overall. Backlash... I'm not sure what I didn't really like about it. I just wasn't big on it, really. Both were decent, but I felt Sacrifice was a better show, personally.
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Post by Timmy8271 on May 28, 2007 18:23:08 GMT -5
I'm pretty sure everyone agrees that one of the very few things TNA is doing right is pushing Christian. And you make it sound like people are picking on poor little TNA just to be mean. Don't blame the fans because the show sucks.. and that has absolutely nothing to do with who is being pushed and who isn't. I know, I know.. let me go ahead and do it for you and get it out of the way.. I'm not saying the show doesn't suck. It's been bad, it's slightly improving. There are some who bash it simply because it's not WWE (naming no names, most of them are gone now anyway), not saying you're in that number as you're a reasonable guy. I'm guessing i'm one of those people. I watch TNA every week basically just as background noise but I do watch some of it. They have gotten better (steiners/3d) but the crap that they do have just turns me off on the product. It's not the wrestlers, it's the booking. Name me one person that likes the Eric Young/Robert Roode storyline? How about VKM/Bashams? Last year, TNA had a good undercard with an alright main event. Now it's just a crappy under card, ok mid card and a boring, WWE/WCW style main event that's over booked. Joe beat Sting last week but what will that prove? Joe's not winning the title at the ppv so what was the point of him winning the match against your biggest star Sting?
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Joekishi
Fry's dog Seymour
Posts: 20,490
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Post by Joekishi on May 28, 2007 19:37:28 GMT -5
Raven is an ex-WCW guy? Oh, I remember the classic battles between him and Hardcore Hak! His battles with Jericho, DDP, Benoit, and Saturn, the Flock, the Tag team fued with the Horsemen. Raven came to prominence in WCW, he got his noteriety in ECW, but he was more of a WCW guy to me.
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