randomranter
Dennis Stamp
When you grow up....... YOU'RE GONNA BE WROOOOOONG!!!!
Posts: 4,804
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Post by randomranter on Oct 15, 2007 21:28:09 GMT -5
I've never denied his family connections likely got him the developmental contract (same with Flair). But if he had as little talent as you claim he would have went the same way as David and Horace Hogan. I've never claimed he had "little talent". In fact, I've mentioned his talent twice in previous responses. I said that his connections and heritage have played a heavier role than his talent, and that those with far more talent have been stuck in the mid card. Yes, it is a bit hypocritical. But...... .....Rey Mysterio isn't known for being an asshole. .....Rey Mysterio is a big draw among children and Hispanics, and therefore directly affects Smackdown's ratings. .....Rey Mysterio is one of the company's biggest merchandise movers. .....Rey Mysterio is respected among wrestling fans for putting on good matches (when not booked to be a complete jobber). So yes, Rey mysterio could probably be considered a "protected" wrestler as well. And yes, to some degree, it's not fair. But IMO, at the very least, I can say that Rey has "earned" that protected spot. Randy had his handed to him. (And yes, if push came to shove, I believe that Vince would have no problems firing Rey Mysterio if he did something severe enough. However, I can see Vince sweeping it under the rug if Randy did the exact same thing.) I never said that. If he runs into a douche for a fan, then IMO, he has the right to be just as much of a douche. I have no problems with that. But when he runs into a fan making reasonable requests, I believe it's his duty to accomodate that fan accordingly. I don't care if it's at an official event, or while he's eating lunch at McDonalds. He's a public figure representing the company and should act accordingly. But by many accounts, he doesn't. There are plenty of reports of fans talking about their experiences with those who are considered "genuinely nice guys". In fact, the positive reports about fans' interactions with wrestlers tend to outweigh the negative ones. But the vast majority of Orton reports paint him to be a douche, and I doubt it's because he's unlucky enough to continually run into the over-demanding fan eager to run to the internet and whine.
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Jack
Team Rocket
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Post by Jack on Oct 15, 2007 21:32:16 GMT -5
Presumably if you were in a hotel room you wouldn't be on "company time" unless you're a hooker with a PLC behind you. That's a bit misleading. Many people who travel on business have their hotel rooms paid for by the company. They may only be getting paid for the 8-hour business day, but they're responsible for their actions 24/7. If they get busted for DUI while on a business trip and/or in a company car (or a car rented by the company).......gone. If they trash the hotel room......gone. Basically, they're expected to act in a professional manner all day, every day, while on business -- on duty or off. If they screw up.......gone. To get back on track, there are a number of reasons to dislike Randy orton, and they've all been repeatedly stated in this thread: 1) He's a deserter. Yes, some people take that very seriously. 2) He destroyed a hotel room. Rhyno destroyed a plant, and got fired for it. 3) He's gotten repeated (and some would argue undeserved) pushes largely because of his heritage and connections while others who are far more deserving are lucky to be languishing in the midcard. 4) He was very bland in the ring, though I will say that he's improved over the past few months. 5) He's walked away from multiple violations of the wellness policy relatively unscathed (outside of the token punishments that they gave him to show the media how "serious" they are.) 6) Fan reports largely report that he's a world-class asshole. I still don't see how it's any of your business. How does it effect your life or your enjoyment of the product? I don't know how long you've been watching wrestling but if it's more than five minutes then you're cheering guys with serious harsh drug and drink habbits, history of domestic violence and all that besides. If you like rock music you listen to people who do what Orton did to the hotel room on a daily basis and on a much larger scale. I just don't see how this effects anyone and why anyone cares. When you next buy a CD do you stand there thinking "Now which artist is the most clean cut and more likely to be a role model to young children?" Because I don't. Famous man wrecks hotel room - well isn't that just the biggest shocker since Tueday said to Monday "I think Wednesday's coming tomorrow"
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Post by CrazySting on Oct 15, 2007 21:43:41 GMT -5
It's okay for Rey to do steroids because he's known as a nice guy?
It's okay for Rey to do steroids because he's a big draw amongst children and hispanics?
It's okay for Rey to do steroids because he's a big merchandise seller?
It's okay for Rey to do steroids because he's a good wrestler?
So, in a thread where you have complained about WWE hypocrisy, you're as guilty as the hypocrisy you chastise WWE for?
I really hope you don't think it's okay to annoy a wrestler for an autograph while they're eating. That's a really awful thing for any fan to do. Common courtest says you wait till they're done.
Every wrestler should be forced to accomodate the fans? No matter how outragous their demands or how rude they are? They're wrestlers not superhuman. They shouldn't have to tolerate crappy behaviour.
You think you could be all smiles all the time? People demanding you drop everything to take a picture with their kid? Coming up to you when you're out with your family? Haning out at the hotel?
For what it's worth, I havn't read that many bad reports about him. Or at least as many as Orton critics claim. We had a thread on here about meeting people in wrestling. There was good and bad stuff about Orton like there was with most guys. IMO Orton is more hit or miss than mostly having bad fan experiences.
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randomranter
Dennis Stamp
When you grow up....... YOU'RE GONNA BE WROOOOOONG!!!!
Posts: 4,804
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Post by randomranter on Oct 15, 2007 21:54:57 GMT -5
It's okay for Rey to do steroids because he's known as a nice guy? It's okay for Rey to do steroids because he's a big draw amongst children and hispanics? It's okay for Rey to do steroids because he's a big merchandise seller? It's okay for Rey to do steroids because he's a good wrestler? So, in a thread where you have complained about WWE hypocrisy, you're as guilty as the hypocrisy you chastise WWE for? Did you even bother to read my response at all? I never said it was OK. In fact, I precisely said it was hypocritical. But I said that, unlike Randy Orton, Rey "earned" his protected status through merchandise sales, positive reactions with fans, being a ratings draw, a history of good matches, etc. Randy orton is not known for any of that. His protected status has been simply handed to him. I used McDonalds simply as an example of a public place. I could have said "a street corner" and the meaning of my statement would have remained unchanged. Reasonable ones, Yes. Don't like it? Find another profession. If you want to enter a profession that makes you a public figure, fan interaction comes with the territory. What part of "reasonable" did you not understand? And did you miss the part where I said that if the fan acts like a douche, then Orton has just as much of a right as returning the attitude problem? Again, it comes with celebrity. Does it suck? Yes. But Randy knew that this was part of the territory when he entered the profession. If Randy doesn't like it, he needs to find another job IMO. As long as the fans remain reasonable, then it's simply a part of Randy's job to accomodate them. And I'll say it again -- the MINUTE the fan becomes rude or starts acting like a douche, Randy has the right to act in any manner he wants. Fans have an equal responsibility of keeping their requests polite and reasonable.
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Post by CrazySting on Oct 15, 2007 22:01:18 GMT -5
Have you read wwe's wellness policy? There is no protected status. You offer all these reasons why rey is above the wellness polciy? That is hypocritical.
A lot of fans aren't reasonable though. But when they offer their versions of events of course they'll paint themselves as 100% the victim. You think anyone desribing a bad expereince with Orton is going to admit they might have been rude first and therefore deserved it?
You said that, and then contradicted said wrestlers should do everythig to accomodate the fans (regardless of the circumstances) because they're representing the company. So, which is it? Represent the company well at all times and put up with any bad behaviour from fans? Or be rude when they're rude to you?
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Malcolm
Grimlock
Wanted something done about the color of his ring.
May contain ADHD
Posts: 13,482
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Post by Malcolm on Oct 15, 2007 22:09:03 GMT -5
You know why I hate Orton? Because he starts threads like this.
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dpg
Samurai Cop
Posts: 2,477
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Post by dpg on Oct 16, 2007 4:41:03 GMT -5
Never could stand Orton when I watched WWE. In the ring he wasn't a stand out, on the mic he was one paced and fairly boring. As for being a 'pretty boy' the guy looks like kryten off red dwarf, trash compactor head. Like Cena, he's been pushed so much and for so long he has become a main eventer. Does he deserve it? No, he doesn't. He hasn't put in the graft to make it there.
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Post by I Graduated Warrior University on Oct 16, 2007 4:54:24 GMT -5
Hasn't Orton been suspended for his behavior on more than one occasion? As well as a violation of the "Wellness Policy"? (I may be wrong on that one). Most of the guys on the roster (and in the past) are probably dicks IRL. Austin was arrested for beating Debra, JBL beat the crap out of Meanie and "goose-stepped" in Germany etc. None of these guys get as much heat for doing things far worse than "trashing a hotel room" and of course, people still think he crapped in a purse (WHICH NEVER F***ING HAPPENED!) Get over it! He's champ because Vince believes Orton can be one of the top guys in the business. Sigh, I wasn't going to mention anything in this thread, but 8 pages of "OMG HE POOPED IN A BAG!" made me have a change of heart on this one...
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randomranter
Dennis Stamp
When you grow up....... YOU'RE GONNA BE WROOOOOONG!!!!
Posts: 4,804
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Post by randomranter on Oct 16, 2007 7:21:00 GMT -5
Well no kidding.
**Officially**, every wrestler is supposed to be treated the same way, from HHH down to Funaki. But we all know that, in reality, there are some wrestlers that are "above the law", so to speak. I'd put HHH, HBK, Taker, JBL, Mysterio, Cena, and Orton into that category. The chances of any of them getting fired for wellness violations (or anything else, for that matter) are about the same as the chances of Vince hiring me tomorrow.
But the thing is......every other "protected" wrestler has earned that spot in one way or another. Taker and HBK have been around for nearly two decades and are top draws. HHH has been around for nearly 15 (Oh, and there's that son-in-law thing, too). Mysterio is a solid worker and a top merchandise seller, along with being responsible for a chunk of SD's ratings.
What has Orton done to deserve being able to avoid serious punishment, outside of simply being one of Vince's pet projects and having the right connections?
We hear about fan interactions with wrestlers all the time. Patterns tend to emerge.
We generally hear stories about people like Batista and Orton being egotistical dicks because....well, they're egotistical dicks.
We generally hear stories about people like Kane and Cena being more fan friendly because they're.......well, more fan friendly.
If fans in general were as rude and dickish as you make them to be, we'd be hearing negative reports about just about everybody. But instead we get nice guys who go out of their way for fans being regarded as nice guys in fan reports, and jackasses being portrayed as jackasses. Reports on Orton tend to fall into the latter category.
No, I never once said that, and you know it. I said that wrestlers should do everything to accomodate *REASONABLE* fan requests when they're representing the company.
Yes. It's called "professionalism".
I already answered this above. Twice. If a fan becomes a dick, he deserves whatever he gets.
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Post by CrazySting on Oct 16, 2007 7:49:28 GMT -5
So...your arguement is Rey has earned the right to take illegal drugs and Orton hasn't?
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randomranter
Dennis Stamp
When you grow up....... YOU'RE GONNA BE WROOOOOONG!!!!
Posts: 4,804
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Post by randomranter on Oct 16, 2007 8:03:23 GMT -5
So...your arguement is Rey has earned the right to take illegal drugs and Orton hasn't? No, I didn't say that. Go back and actually take the time to read some of my responses. Randy Orton gets away with doing things that many other wrestlers would get fired for -- including taking illegal drugs. He is in a top spot in the company, which gives him a certain degree of "protection" from punishment. My point is that he has done little to nothing to earn such protection. Rey, on the other hand, also obviously has a "protected" status, as he has seemingly escaped punishment for various offenses as well (Though as I said in another post, I don't think he's as "protected" as Orton). Yes, they both (along with others that I mentioned) get away with things that other wrestlers don't. Yes, I agree that it's unfair, hypocritical, and incredibly stupid. But unlike Orton, Rey has "earned" his protected status in numerous ways -- Good worker, ratings draw, top merch seller, etc. Randy has done..........nothing.
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Post by CrazySting on Oct 16, 2007 10:54:05 GMT -5
So...your arguement is Rey has earned the right to take illegal drugs and Orton hasn't? No, I didn't say that. Go back and actually take the time to read some of my responses. Randy Orton gets away with doing things that many other wrestlers would get fired for -- including taking illegal drugs. He is in a top spot in the company, which gives him a certain degree of "protection" from punishment. My point is that he has done little to nothing to earn such protection. Rey, on the other hand, also obviously has a "protected" status, as he has seemingly escaped punishment for various offenses as well (Though as I said in another post, I don't think he's as "protected" as Orton). Yes, they both (along with others that I mentioned) get away with things that other wrestlers don't. Yes, I agree that it's unfair, hypocritical, and incredibly stupid. But unlike Orton, Rey has "earned" his protected status in numerous ways -- Good worker, ratings draw, top merch seller, etc. Randy has done..........nothing. The basic gist of your arguement Randy does steroids- wrong. Rey does steroids- still wrong but a little less wrong because he's a nice guy. You don't think that is double standards? It doesn't matter who's a hard worker, who's not, who's over, who's not. As far as the wellness policy goes all wrestlers should be equal in that respect. No wrestler "deserves" to get away with doing steroids more than anyone else. It's thinking like that that possibly convinced Benoit it was okay to do was many steroids as possible because "he'd earned it" And look how that turned out.
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AriadosMan
Bill S. Preston, Esq.
Your friendly neighborhood superhero
Posts: 15,620
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Post by AriadosMan on Oct 16, 2007 11:06:22 GMT -5
Orton is prized because he is a third-generation wrestler in a business that is frankly quite nepotistic.
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Post by Clash, Never a Meter Maid on Oct 16, 2007 11:55:11 GMT -5
I'll put it like this:
In mid/late 2004, I had to go by recaps with a lot of Raw shows, because Orton was boring the hell out of me.
As of right now, I look forward to seeing him get the crap kicked out of him.
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Post by Dr. Bolty, Disaster Enby on Oct 16, 2007 12:02:27 GMT -5
The best reasoning I can think of is the Legend Killer push. That push took time and money, and it shot Orton into the stratosphere; but, it will never work on anyone else (all those veterans have lost their credibility now).
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Post by valiens on Oct 16, 2007 12:04:20 GMT -5
He's the total package: looks, ability, good on the mic, 3rd gen, showing improvement...He's the future and you don't boot the future just because he wants to sew his royal oats.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
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Post by Deleted on Oct 16, 2007 12:09:08 GMT -5
No, I didn't say that. Go back and actually take the time to read some of my responses. Randy Orton gets away with doing things that many other wrestlers would get fired for -- including taking illegal drugs. He is in a top spot in the company, which gives him a certain degree of "protection" from punishment. My point is that he has done little to nothing to earn such protection. Rey, on the other hand, also obviously has a "protected" status, as he has seemingly escaped punishment for various offenses as well (Though as I said in another post, I don't think he's as "protected" as Orton). Yes, they both (along with others that I mentioned) get away with things that other wrestlers don't. Yes, I agree that it's unfair, hypocritical, and incredibly stupid. But unlike Orton, Rey has "earned" his protected status in numerous ways -- Good worker, ratings draw, top merch seller, etc. Randy has done..........nothing. The basic gist of your arguement Randy does steroids- wrong. Rey does steroids- still wrong but a little less wrong because he's a nice guy. You don't think that is double standards? It doesn't matter who's a hard worker, who's not, who's over, who's not. As far as the wellness policy goes all wrestlers should be equal in that respect. No wrestler "deserves" to get away with doing steroids more than anyone else. It's thinking like that that possibly convinced Benoit it was okay to do was many steroids as possible because "he'd earned it" And look how that turned out. He's only commenting in reference to how the game is actually played. He even said it's stupid and he doesn't agree with it, yet that's how it works out. In the WWEs warped sense of what the rules are, certain wrestlers are protected. All of them other than Orton actually earned that protected position.
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Post by Kevin Hamilton on Oct 16, 2007 12:16:12 GMT -5
That's pretty much how every office or jobsite you'll ever work at runs though. Politics and favoritism do suck, but they're in almost every occupation.
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Post by thearnbaldspot on Oct 16, 2007 13:39:04 GMT -5
Kennedy looked like he was working over a mannequin last night.
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The OP
Bill S. Preston, Esq.
changed his name
Posts: 15,785
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Post by The OP on Oct 16, 2007 13:44:48 GMT -5
Yeah, especially the part when the mannequin nailed Kennedy with that sick looking inverted backbreaker.
In all seriousness, I know what you mean. Orton is so physically perfect looking you'd almost think he was a mannequin. No mannequin I know of can throw a beautiful dropkick like Orton though!
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