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Post by corndog on Apr 15, 2021 11:48:43 GMT -5
Yeah no, Eric. Bret was a massive draw in Europe and Canada, and he and Shawn Michaels are the only reasons WWE didn't go bankrupt by 1996. He may not have drawn new fans the way Hogan did but there would be no WWE now without Bret around to stop the bleeding. Cena was kind of the same. Maybe he didn't create a boom period but he sure as hell prevented a bust. And if nobody cares about Bret then why was the Screwjob such an infamous moment in wrestling history that we still talk about nearly 25 years later? I want the drugs Bischoff is on. Exactly, Vince couldn't even really afford the contract, but he knew he needed to do it. He had to keep Bret long enough to bridge the gap to Austin. By late '96 he knew he had a star in Austin, but he needed Bret to stick around to put him over and get Austin in the limelight. Bret's popularity in Canada and Europe kept the WWE from being forced to be a regional promotion that never would have caught up to WCW and possibly been forced to fold. Business started to fall pretty heavily when the 90s began and the steriod trial happened. No one would have kept the company where it was, not even Hogan, even he was starting to draw less with WWE and really needed to go to WCW to freshen things up. In a way, I can understand Bret's bitterness, at the same time I understand why Vince used Bret the way he did. His title reign in '92 was short lived, but it served a greater purpose, it established him as someone that could hang with the big dogs when they still had all of their top stars. While Hogan was a part timer, he was still there, Savage was still being booked seriously, he got put over by Ric Flair who was one of the biggest stars of the 80s. Bret was really the only one from the New Generation, besides Undertaker, that was actually handed the torch from the 80s boom generation. He also held the IC title when it actually meant something. It gave him credibility, so when Vince needed or tried to create a new star, Bret was the perfect candidate to put them over. I do think Vince wanted to groom Bret to be the next top star after Hogan left, but he never got the return he wanted, even though it was better than everyone else until Austin. You also have to wonder, where would Austin have ended up if he didn't have the feud with Bret that launched him into the top of the card? The image of Austin's bloody face, refusing to tap out is forever tied to his legacy.
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Post by corndog on Apr 12, 2021 12:20:21 GMT -5
NWA, maybe IMPACT. Obviously not AEW, ROH or New Japan.
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Post by corndog on Apr 12, 2021 11:24:09 GMT -5
1. Hogan in '96 2. Bret in '97, because it was so well done and coupled with Austin's face turn 3. Backlund, because it came out of no where and I loved his crazy character 4. McMahon in '97 5. Shawn turning on Marty
Andre was very well done as well. I loved Jericho's turn in WCW in '97 and then again in 2008.
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Post by corndog on Apr 8, 2021 19:13:15 GMT -5
I definitely agree '98 would have been a better year for him to come in to WWF than '97. Michaels would have felt threatened and probably tried to bury him, while '97 was the first year of the Attitude Era, there were still a few cheesy gimmicks in the lower/mid-card. I still think he would have probably kept his RVD character with less pot references or at least not so blatantly obvious. But outside of working with Owen Hart and a few others, I don't see his style getting to shine in WWF. Also as mentioned, we did see WWF around this time bury wrestlers that were stars in ECW. Although a few also got to get over as well. Austin, Foley and Pillman all came to WWF from ECW, even though they also worked for WCW before.
WCW he would have done well in the mid-card, unless he pissed some people off. He had much better people to work with obviously, but I don't see him sniffing the main event. So I think his ceiling would be higher in WWF, I could see him main eventing WWF a year or two after he arrives, on the other hand I could see him getting scrubbed out and having a stupid gimmick that doesn't work. Where WCW would at least give him a chance and probably start him in the mid-card, but he wouldn't be able to get out of it.
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Post by corndog on Apr 5, 2021 12:04:30 GMT -5
I love him in Mike Tyson Mysteries as Pigeon, he's ridiculous. His podcast is pretty good too.
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Post by corndog on Apr 4, 2021 20:05:40 GMT -5
It's not WWE, but there is a great YouTube channel by the Chicago Film Archives that has plenty of matches from the 50s on their page with some of the bigger stars of the era. I delved into it quite a bit a few years back, www.youtube.com/channel/UCWXxP_rvXryBPpjIw7Dl9TgThere's a Lou Thesz/Buddy Rogers match that is actually quite fast paced and holds up really well. Throw in a flip or two and it wouldn't look to out of place on a modern wrestling show. It wasn't until the 70's that wrestling matches were all about never ending headlocks and restholds and hardly any bumps. Especially in the WWWF. WWWF in the 70's was terrible, it really was never a workrate territory. But 70's wrestling in Japan and England was really good and a lot of it holds up to today. Some of the matches on the page hold up well, others are pretty slow. Gagne worked a fairly pace as well and was entertaining to watch. I forget the opponent, but there is a Thesz match on this channel where Thesz uses a powerbomb knocking his opponent out. Even the slower matches are interesting because of all the different holds they used, reminds me of something Bret Hart said about all of the lost holds in wrestling, many of which is father used. You can definitely see it in some of these matches.
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Post by corndog on Apr 4, 2021 14:55:57 GMT -5
I never understood Vince's use of jobbers in the 80s and he had so many, it was hard to keep track. It almost seemed like there was at least as many as jobbers as mid-card to main event wrestlers. I didn't like how he made them so competitive, if someone can't beat anyone that is established as having a name for themselves, why did they have such competitive matches, eventually you have to win one of them? I liked how Jim Crockett just used them to get squashed and even if they last more than a few minutes, they almost never get offense in. There was a few guys like George South and Sam Houston that would have more competitive matches against top guys, but they were more JTTS than a full on jobber.
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Post by corndog on Mar 31, 2021 13:59:00 GMT -5
Holyfield beat Tyson pretty square in their first fight in November 1996. After the sixth round when Tyson was knocked down, it was all Holyfield. If this third fight happens, Tyson will go 0-for-3 against The Real Deal. Tyson was doing hard drugs, his head was all messed up and he wasn't taking things seriously at that point. A focused, sober Tyson that we saw against Roy Jones, I am taking Tyson. He still even has his handspeed, he just doesn't have his legs, but I doubt Holyfield does either.
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Post by corndog on Mar 31, 2021 13:44:16 GMT -5
It's not WWE, but there is a great YouTube channel by the Chicago Film Archives that has plenty of matches from the 50s on their page with some of the bigger stars of the era. I delved into it quite a bit a few years back, www.youtube.com/channel/UCWXxP_rvXryBPpjIw7Dl9Tg
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Post by corndog on Mar 29, 2021 11:22:21 GMT -5
It's really hard to tell where the indy scene in wrestling will be in a post-COVID world, hopefully things will recover.
Impact: They have definitely been heading in the right direction with Callis and D'Amore taking over daily operations. I'm sure they will be fine unless terrible happens to give Anthem a reason to sell, but barring that, I think Impact will be around and fairly healthy. Moving Impact to Canada was a smart move, considering the popularity of wrestling up there, they basically have their own territory up there including some northern states. Add all that to building a working relationship with AEW and now New Japan, they should be more than fine and with Callis/D'Amore in charge, I don't see them screwing it up like last time.
MLW: This one is hard to tell, I'm rooting for them, but with AEW and Impact, I don't see where they end up in the mix. For them, it's all about where things up as a whole. If they indy scene can recover and get fans to come out, I think they will be fine, but that remains to be seen. This one is a coin toss for me.
NWA: Another one I question, they have shot themselves in the foot a few times already, which is unfortunate because things looked bright early on. I just don't know how long Corgan can keep it running and without him, the product losses that passion behind it, which is why it has been so good. So I am going to guess, they won't be around unfortunately.
ROH: I usually don't openly root for companies to fold, but I don't see the purpose of ROH anymore. They continue to make the wrong moves ever since the joint NJPW/ROH MSG show. With Meij's departure, New Japan has began to work with Impact and AEW, a relationship I see slowly growing and hopefully working out well. If those relationships continue to build, ROH's purpose for New Japan will cease to exist, unless they are able to get into the fold, but with their management I don't see that happening. I think the inevitable will happen within 5 years and Sinclair will sell the video library to either WWE or AEW if they feel like giving out the cash.
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Post by corndog on Mar 26, 2021 7:25:03 GMT -5
This was the first thing that popped into my mind after reading the thread title.
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Post by corndog on Mar 26, 2021 7:23:56 GMT -5
Surprised it's taken this long, really. Chick-Fil-A has been a major player for several years now. It's not like McD's didn't have deluxe chicken sandwiches before, either. (And of course KFC knows.....a little something about chicken...) They literally had the exact same crispy chicken sandwich on the menu for a short period of time a couple of years ago. They just didn't pump this much ad revenue into it.
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Post by corndog on Mar 26, 2021 7:14:01 GMT -5
I feel like the only answers out of this would be Joshi who start wrestling at a VERY young age usually but even I can't find any notable ones Aja Kong just turned 50, her debut was 1986. That whole class just passed it, Manami Toyota and Mima Shimoda are 50, Kyoko Inoue is 51 as is Takako. We have a lot more Joshi savvy users on this board who might be able to find one. Not joshi, but another near miss is Malia Hosaka. She is 51 so just barely in her 50s. She debuted in 1987, but didn’t have her first nationally televised matches until 1991 for Herb Abrams UWF. I figure you’ll have to go to Mexico or Japan to find answers for this. Both regularly have wrestlers start very young. Although I don’t know if there are any you could claim was a star before 1990. England would be another place to look, they start ridiculously young there.
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Post by corndog on Mar 25, 2021 17:25:09 GMT -5
The most realistic time, honestly, was 1998, as a wrinkle in the Foley/Austin storyline. Foley fails to get the belt off Austin after a number of tries. The night after Judgment Day, Funk gets a title shot against Austin on RAW (much to Foley's outrage). McMahon, the stooges and a million other people interfere, most of them trying to take out Austin, and Funk somehow ends up winning the match and the belt. Foley is incensed. Kane is declared No. 1 contender and beats the living hell out of Funk one week later to take the belt, with help from Foley. Then Austin regains from Kane at KOTR (skipping the whole First Blood business). Foley and Funk have the hardcore match to end all hardcore matches at Fully Loaded, leading to Funk then stepping away. I realize hypocrisy is nothing new to the industry, but man, the WWF giving a 50-something year old Funk a World Title reign in the early days of the Attitude Era would've really messed up their "WWF is the hot young new era of pro wrestling and WCW is a bunch of washed-up old farts" narrative that they were pushing at the time. Honestly, best use of Funk as WWF Champion would've been the transitional guy between Bob Backlund and Hulk Hogan in 83-84. Probably would've gotten more mileage out of rematches between Hogan and Funk then they did out of Hogan and Sheik. This definitely would have been the time. Funk was "retired", so Vince could have just thrown him some cash and changed that. While Sheik was over in the WWF as a heel, Funk was more well known across the country, also as a former NWA champion, Hogan beating him would have meant more in the wrestling world. Although, Sheik was the perfect opponent for Hogan's character, with his anti-American attitude, something that was clearly a trend with Hogan in the 80s.
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Post by corndog on Mar 4, 2021 16:16:18 GMT -5
After listening to my brother and other family members talk about the local promotion here, the WWA, I found some episodes on YouTube. David McLane was absolutely terrible when he announced for them, not sure if he improved with GLOW or WOW. It also didn't help that he replaced Sam Menacker. Now I want to find these, thanks for the tip! David was okay in Glow & WOW, he was like Vince. He was the boss so he knew how to call the matches according to the story. Both got over the top irritating also, but that’s part of the charm. Sounds like he improved, but yeah he was terrible in WWA, just sounded completely second rate, like a student calling a high school basketball game. Also, as I said, Menacker was a Lance Russell/Gordon Solie legendary type announcer for WWA, so it didn't help that a very young and green, Dave McLane replaced him.
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Post by corndog on Mar 2, 2021 11:35:10 GMT -5
After listening to my brother and other family members talk about the local promotion here, the WWA, I found some episodes on YouTube. David McLane was absolutely terrible when he announced for them, not sure if he improved with GLOW or WOW. It also didn't help that he replaced Sam Menacker.
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Post by corndog on Feb 25, 2021 16:10:11 GMT -5
It's really hard to tell with both of them, although Vince's rise in insanity in recent years still hasn't reached where Inoki ended up that put his talent in actual health risk. In their heydays most people actually liked working for them. Vince treated his talent better than the other promoters in the 80s, giving pretty much anyone a fair chance to get over and make some money. Seemed like a lot of people liked working for Inoki in the 70s/80s, but he was never as kind as Baba, who was legendary for being a very kind hearted person that you usually don't see in wrestling promoters.
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Post by corndog on Feb 25, 2021 15:58:26 GMT -5
Its also worth noting that Heenan worked a lot in Indiana while in Dick the Bruiser's WWA territory so it might have been both an in character gag and a shout out at the same time. He grew up in Indianapolis and began his career in the WWA, where he made a name for himself. So it would be no surprise that he would support IU basketball, considering Bloomington is just 30 minutes south of Indy.
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Post by corndog on Feb 24, 2021 17:59:05 GMT -5
I really like Ishimori, but yeah, him as Jr. Heavyweight champion would just not be a great choice right now. I mean, it's the worst plausible scenario, worst case would be Wato, somehow, who isn't remotely ready for that kind of thing. Despy, SHO, BUSHI are my top three choices, in that order. Honestly, I'd go for Desperado. He was probably the plan for BOSJ 2021. After a breakout performance like he had against Hiromu, it's got to be in the plans for him to win it at some point and I think now is the time to pull the trigger. I would love to see Despy finally win the BOSJ, especialy since he's one of my favorite wrestlers period. He keeps getting closer and every time they give him an opportunity he shines. Plus who doesn't want to see him and Hiromu go again.
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Post by corndog on Feb 24, 2021 17:55:54 GMT -5
IMO: Fall 97 through Summer of 98 with the rise of Austin,Mr.McMahon, DX,Rock,Mankind,Kane/Taker .. holds up Fall 98 through Fall 99 with the increasingly absurd Russo booking, The Higher Power stuff, etc. does not. Late Fall 99 to Spring 2001 with TMH Era, the Radicalz, babyface Rock, Angle, Jericho holds up. Obviously their is crap in the watchable times and gems in the unwatchable times but as for my taste those general periods hold up. I pretty much agree with this. Technically some would say the Attitude Era would start with the Pillman/Austin gun angle, I always say the Hart/Austin double turn at WM13. 1997 was really good in my opinion and things definitely went downhill late in '98. Jericho, Angle and the Radicalz joining really helped the in ring quality especially with Bret and Shawn gone.
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