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Post by corndog on May 31, 2021 19:20:32 GMT -5
Roberts really got screwed a lot of times in his WWF run. Hogan, Warrior, Sid, I completely understand why he left for WCW in 1992 after everything he went through in '91. He was a massive star for them and really never got that main event feud outside of Andre and Savage. Obviously he had issues, but he was super over as both a face and a heel and had a household name just like Hogan, Andre and Savage.
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Post by corndog on May 26, 2021 11:44:25 GMT -5
Another question about the Collision in Korea, if they somehow had the heel ‘Russian’ characters or the Cuban Assassin or even the Iron Sheik with them would the North Korean crowd cheer them? And would the American and Japanese wrestlers take a dive for them cleanly to make the NK crowd happy? From what I’ve heard the citizens of North Korea had no clue what professional wrestling even is. They likely had no idea how to react to it. They definitely talked about that in this episode, they have never seen pro wrestling, so they had no idea how to react. Which was a testament to how good Flair and Inoki where in the ring, granted Inoki's connection to Rikidozan helped, but they worked a match that even non-fans could connect to.
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Post by corndog on May 26, 2021 11:26:25 GMT -5
None of this adds up at all. I heard there was pressure on Owen to do the stunt, but I don't think there was a threat of releasing him from contract since it would be an empty threat. Even without a lawsuit, Owen could have easily gone to WCW or back to New Japan and probably making similar, if not more money and probably work less dates. I also remember Bret saying he wanted Owen to come to WCW, but Vince wouldn't release him.
I definitely don't see Owen getting the Game gimmick either, that doesn't fit him at all and as you said, Owen didn't plan on wrestling forever. He wanted to make enough money to retire and spend time with his family. Although Bret felt Owen loved wrestling too much to leave it forever, he could have easily found a gig or even signed a part time contract with WWE or somewhere else where he just works TV.
I completely forgot he was fighting for the IC title that night and I could see him winning that. As far as the Blue Blazer gimmick, I think Owen was having fun with it. Interesting fact, after Owen left the WWF the first time when he competed as the Blue Blazer, he did a one off mask vs mask match in Mexico where he wrestled as the Blue Blazer, and lost the match before going to WCW.
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Post by corndog on May 26, 2021 11:03:58 GMT -5
It was the first time I can think of that openly admitted his position on WWF television, even though everyone knew he was the boss. I never knew he was the owner until 1996 or 1997. I think the first time it was acknowledged was when Jim Ross tried the heel turn with Razor and Diesel. Obviously that went nowhere because JR is not heel material while Vince is. But I remember JR saying "he fired me twice" and though I can't remember if it was mentioned that Vince was the owner in that promo it was at least alluded to. I'm still not sure when I really first knew or found out because I stopped watching a bit in late 1996 to early 1997. It was funny at Wrestlemania IV when Bob Uecker acknowledged Vince called him. As a kid I just thought it meant Vince was also an office errand guy making the phone calls to celebrities. My dad spoiled it for me, but I mean it was exposed in mainstream media. In the 20/20 expose with John Stossel, they said Vince owned the World Wrestling Federation, same with news on the steroid trial. Also, the Apter mags even said he was the owner/promoter, and they were still keeping kayfabe in the 90s, even had an interview with him as the owner/promoter in '97 before the Screwjob. So it wasn't just something known by insiders from dirt sheets, it was out there. But they never mentioned it on WWE television until then. I always thought it was strange, most promoters admitted who they were on television, even having storylines about it. Outside of some of the active wrestling promoters. I guess Bischoff tried the McMahon gig at first, until the nWo.
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Post by corndog on May 25, 2021 12:23:35 GMT -5
It was the first time I can think of that openly admitted his position on WWF television, even though everyone knew he was the boss. What solidified it for me was his interview with Owen Hart, when he returned for the first time since the Screwjob. I always felt they dropped the ball with Owen, he was so over as a face at that point and they could have done more with him than a midcard run against HHH. He had a match with Shawn on Raw, that actually drew pretty good ratings. Looking into it, it was the highest rated Raw during the Monday Night Wars up until that point, outside of times that Nitro was preempted. Obviously the plan was to go from Shawn to Austin, but they could have gotten a ppv match out of Owen/Shawn leading up to then. Perhaps they were planning on that fued for after Wrestlemania, but of course Shawn got injured.
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Post by corndog on May 25, 2021 12:04:33 GMT -5
I always thought Rikidozan's murder was a hit placed on him for f***ing up Kimura so bad and not putting him over like the Yakuza wanted.
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Post by corndog on May 25, 2021 11:35:25 GMT -5
They were pretty much dead in the water after the reaction Hogan got at Mania 18. And even before that, they were having a hard time getting him over as a heel. But you just weren't going to get a WWF audience to boo him. Especially one that had grown up with Hulkamania and were now teens/young adults bitten by the nostalgia bug. I enjoyed it until the aftermath of Hogan leaving. It could worked if Nash could keep his body together and Hall didn't fall back into bad habits. It was surreal seeing them on WWE television with the nWo colors and their interactions with the talent were fun. It was always going to be hard keeping them heel, especially Hogan. The reason it worked in WCW, despite the company bringing in new fans, they still worked a lot of the old Crockett and other southern territories where Hogan was seen as the enemy. Seeing Hogan in the ring at Wrestlemania 18 felt like him finally coming home, couple that with him actually putting a genuine effort in the match for the first time in years and I feel like even he didn't expect that big of reaction.
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Post by corndog on May 25, 2021 11:15:53 GMT -5
To be fair to Bischoff, I don't think he was seriously pumping his own tires on the "biggest crowd ever" stuff, that seemed more than just a dash of sarcasm/self-deprecation, along with genuine awe over how big a display and show it was. As for the wrestlers themselves, keep in mind that this was 1995: US cameras didn't even get into post-revolution China until the early-to-mid 1980s, let alone the hermit kingdom, and there wasn't widespread knowledge about exactly how the North Korean regime operated among the general public. They knew "communist regime", but likely knew next to nothing else about what they would entail; after all, NK is far less "communist" and far more sheer totalitarianism, and it sounded clear from the way Norton and the others were talking that the wrestlers were not told to prepare for that, so everything was coming across as a shock. I was wondering how the wrestlers and Bischoff had no idea what they were walking into. Obviously now we know much more now than we did then about North Korea. I was also surprised about Inoki doing interviews for the show, he had to have an idea of what this was going to be like, especially since the Japanese wrestlers were freaking out about it.
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Post by corndog on May 14, 2021 13:53:27 GMT -5
I really like Roddy Piper but I was born in 1988 and other than a moment here or there I feel like I missed why he's treated like such a huge legend. I grew up knowing he was a big legend and a huge deal but he really didn't do it for me anytime he was out there. I didn't really "get" his mic work or his style and he was a decent wrestler at best. His older stuff is decent but when people put him on the same level as a Hogan, Flair, Savage etc. I just don't see it. He could get heat but I think most people could get heat if they said some of the stuff he was saying. And Piper's Pit, at least the ones on the big stage, WM 5 and WM 21(Whichever one had Austin and Carlito), really failed to deliver. I think in the Attitude Era he would've been hard to see as an authority figure because Vince was the authority figure. Austin couldn't be the antiauthority if Piper was playing the face authority figure to Vince's heel and Piper vs Austin wouldn't have drawn nearly the same. For all of Vince's faults, he put guys over left and right. If it had been Piper wrestling it would have had to be a more legit match and at some point Piper was going to have to win. Vince could look like a fool because everyone knew he wasn't trained to wrestle. It wouldn't have worked. Piper was never the best technician or worker, but he was good at brawling, more hardcore style matches like the Dog Collar Match at Starrcade '83 or his match with Paul Orndorff on SNME in '85. Piper was pretty good on the stick as a heel back in the day, he also was a complete wildcard, who could anything at any given moment. Great examples are him attacking Snuka with a coconut and hiting Lou Albano with Cyndi Lauper's award. He was one of the first "cool" heels that people loved to hate and really I can't think of a better opponent and foil during the Rock N' Wrestling connection in 1985. He was must see tv for his first few years in WWF and then became a parody of himself in the late 80s after returning from starring in films.
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Post by corndog on May 14, 2021 13:42:23 GMT -5
This is so strange, looks like we won't get BOSJ, very disappointing. Maybe they can do it in the US, they have enough cruiserweights over here and now AEW can loan some as well.
Also, loved the Nagata/Moxley match.
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Post by corndog on May 12, 2021 10:32:27 GMT -5
Have to share the sentiment that all this seems crazy considering you'd think if the Olympics were still going to happen, you'd have a much better vaccine strategy towards making it happen. Like, there's a reason that the UK looking to hold the Champions League final in Wembley with a limited crowd seems like a much more viable thing than the Olympics happening in Tokyo and that isn't because the UK had a better run with their COVID strategy at first. Just looked it up, only 1% of Japan is fully vaccinated. Compare that to 35% in the US and 27% in the UK. Actually looking worldwide, the US and UK are the two best with vaccination of the larger countries. Every other country with rates near the US/UK is much, much smaller.
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Post by corndog on May 12, 2021 10:19:17 GMT -5
I can't believe how good the kids turned out, thankfully they had Kim. This was definitely one of the saddest stories, just because Brian didn't kill himself partying his butt off, he killed himself trying to keep going and support his family. Although what Brian and Melanie did to his first wife was terrible and Pillman certainly wasn't a perfect person.
This definitely made me like Pillman Jr. even more, everyone is rooting for him now. I also gained some respect for Ross, he seemed genuine about trying to help Pillman. Pillman definitely could have had a career outside of the ring in wrestling. Also you got to feel for Austin as well.
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Post by corndog on May 10, 2021 20:14:52 GMT -5
It's very strange, since the US handled the initial situation terribly, but vaccination is going well over here. While Japan is clearly the opposite. They haven't had a lot of cases compared to the US and really most of the world, but they are having another surge right now. I was very shocked to find out what was going on in Japan right now. Wouldn't shock me if much like with the US at the start of the pandemic that Japan is dealing with a a volatile political climate especially with the Olympics upcoming Yeah, this is going to get ugly and I can't see the Olympics happening in Tokyo at this point.
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Post by corndog on May 10, 2021 20:13:07 GMT -5
Wolfpac was crazy hot in '98. I know WCW's downfall is often cited as beginning with the Sting Starrcade match or the rise of Austin, but even at the end of '98, WCW still was very popular & had a lot of strings to their bow. The Wolfpac's downfall was down to two things: 1) They should've shed the 'nWo' part of the name. I can understand them wanting to initially ride the popularity of the New World Order, but once those red nWo shirts were sold, they should've just gone by 'Wolfpac'. Revisionist history would have you believed the Wolfpac watered down the nWo, but if anything, the Wolfpac was held back by tyeing itself to a faction that had been badly watered down by this point. 2) The Nash heel turn. Even the Goldberg loss (in spite of how it happened) was redeemable, as there were many cheers when it happened. A face champion Nash vs a challenger Goldberg who is now on the warpath would've drawn really well. Putting Nash back as Hogan's underling & making Goldberg out as a fool on that January 4th show was just cataclysmically awful. The Wolfpac was white hot and WCW was still in very good shape in '98, despite having some misteps. In fact they actually drew much better attendence and ratings in '98 than '97, the only difference was WWE was even more popular. The ending of the Wolfpac with the "Fingerpoke of Doom" was the real beginning of the end. Hogan vs Nash was a match that was highly anticipated and could have drawn very well, but that completely screwed everything up and the following months of WCW just kept making things even worse to a point of no return.
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Post by corndog on May 10, 2021 13:38:43 GMT -5
It would have been interesting to see him in the Hart Foundation. I think Piper needed to be a heel at that point, especially to fit in with the Attitude Era. His face act had gotten incredibly stale at that point and he definitely couldn't do much in the ring. I also wouldn't see him sticking around after Owen died, since he was so close to the family. He considered the Harts his family and was livid about Owen's death.
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Post by corndog on May 10, 2021 12:53:02 GMT -5
Honestly the situation in Japan is probably going to get a lot worse before it gets better. Last I heard virtually nobody's had the chance to get vaccinated and they're still committed to the Olympics despite that for some stupid reason. I have a friend that married a Japanese guy and lives in Tokyo. She said the vaccination situation there is terrible. I'm really surprised how poor the situation is over there. It's very strange, since the US handled the initial situation terribly, but vaccination is going well over here. While Japan is clearly the opposite. They haven't had a lot of cases compared to the US and really most of the world, but they are having another surge right now.
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Post by corndog on May 10, 2021 12:38:55 GMT -5
The first person that comes to my mind at that description is Randy Orton. I don't necessarily know if I would call them great, but I loved his matches with Daniel Bryan. I felt that had the best chemistry with each other over anyone else in the company. I always wanted to see Orton outside of WWE due to this as well. The common theme we see in this thread are WWE workers and I believe a lot of it has to do with the style and what Vince wants out of matches.
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Post by corndog on Apr 22, 2021 17:55:32 GMT -5
Might be a digression but I think it's telling that carving a 17 year old kid with an exacto knife like a thanksgiving turkey if far from the nost f***ed up thing New Jack has done. Stabbing a guy nine times, hitting Gypsy Joe at full force with a metal baseball bat, the Vic Grimes scaffold incident are all far worse than Mass Transit, because he literally tried to kill them. Having said that, I feel some sympathy for Mass Transit because in typical New Jack fashion, New Jack went WAY too far. But it was dumb and dangerous for Mass Transit to lie about his training. Probably should have ruffed the kid a bit to push him out. Also, I think the reason New Jack gets some slack here, is because for New Jack it was easily one of his milder incidents. He wasn't try to kill him, just scare the shit out of him.
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Post by corndog on Apr 15, 2021 16:01:50 GMT -5
Does Nash still need to make these appearances? He looks like he’d rather be dead in that video. Lacey seems drunk throughout. Considering he's taking a COVID test, he probably doesn't feel good. But that's a good point, I don't see how Nash needs the money. Probably just did it to see some of the boys and stay busy. You can certainly tell she's drinking, not that she is trying to hide it.
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Post by corndog on Apr 15, 2021 12:25:08 GMT -5
I don't understand how she wouldn't know Nash, considering there were in TNA at the same time. The old timers makes sense, since it's obvious her family sheltered her from wrestling, understandably so. Although oddly she seemed to know Hacksaw, but that might be through Brooke.
She definitely has a dark, dark sense of humor, but considering what happened to her father and his family, it's understandable. I've been through quite a few tough family deaths, so I get it.
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