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Post by Mr. Emoticon Man, TF Fan on Nov 23, 2009 21:19:31 GMT -5
The correlation is simple. Video games present often unrealistic settings where people engage in activities that would be frowned upon in the real world. Twilight presents an often unrealistic setting (well, unrealistic unless you believe vampires and such exist) where people engage in activities that would be frowned upon in the real world. If we can trust little boys not to steal or resort to violence as an answer to everything, I think we can trust little girls not to clutch to bad relationships in the way that this Bella character apparently does.
And sure, some girls will grow up to make the bad choices that Bella makes, just like there are little boys who will steal or attempt to physically hurt their peers. But, there were little girls doing that since before Twilight's author was a twinkle in her father's lusty eyes, just as their were little boys stealing and causing violence long before video games were even dreamed of. So to use Twilight as a scapegoat for bad relationships strikes me as being no different than those using video games as a scapegoat for violence. And those who do take a bad path in life most likely have worse problems than Twilight or video games which deserve far more blame for their choices.
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Post by HMARK Center on Nov 23, 2009 21:23:00 GMT -5
Yet I never said it was the "scapegoat"; in fact, I made a point of saying it's a reflection and reinforcement, not a root cause.
But, again, I don't think it's a correlation; video game driven violence or crime is never going to be as prevalent as individuals (male or female) allowing pop culture/movies/books/etc. to have an effect on the way they view interpersonal relationships.
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Post by Mr. Emoticon Man, TF Fan on Nov 23, 2009 21:38:00 GMT -5
We'll have to agree to disagree on there not being a correlation, then.
Personally, I'm just glad to see some of the kids I work with reading. It may be crap, but at least they're practicing the skills I've been trying to teach them.
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Post by tap on Nov 23, 2009 21:48:02 GMT -5
I am rather confused at how drawing a correlation (that the books/films indeed are shaping the emotional development of young female readers) from a correlation (or lack thereof, given the studies on video games and violence) proves that the messages of Twilight (something I addressed on the last page) are somehow harmful.
But here would be a junction to transform an idea from my previous post on the matter: think of the hysteria surrounding Beatlemania, how there were fears of young women and their emergent sexuality threatening the status quo. This era, however, was one of much social and political upheaval; not that Beatlemania was causal or even correlative in the women's lib movement of the 60s. But such questioning of today's status quo is (sorely) absent. Even though I would argue the ecstasy of Beatlemania translated into sublimation via consumerism (looking at the popularity, record sales, merchandise, etc.), there was still some kind of "consequence" (for want of a better word) of mass movements. I would argue now that there is a complacency and eagerness to accept sublimation as the final result rather than the "consequence" (moreover, change as a continual process). It's complicated though, because popular culture--on the whole--is still caught up in the moment of Twilight (and other vampire properties, like True Blood, Vampire Diaries, the Blade films, etc.). All analysis of the deleterious effects of Twilight is more or less anecdotal. Granted, you can approach the franchise in a number of ways (I take more of a Critical Theory route, if anything), but it's never conclusive.
In 5 years, 10 certainly, were the Twilight phenomenon re-examined quantitatively (studies of young women, their interpersonal relationships, the types of relationships) and qualitatively (Twilight as literature, as cinema, as synergy, what came before and after) do I think something constructive can be said. Even everything I have said so far is probably speculation, if not conjecture.
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Post by HMARK Center on Nov 23, 2009 22:04:07 GMT -5
For the final time: Twilight is not the cause of the issue. It's emblematic of it, and disturbing to me insofar as it's directed at a young audience. This trend exists outside of Twilight, so, no, it's not the root cause, and yes, a healthy number of people will outgrow the childish clinging to it, but an incredibly large number will not shed the childish views on relationships.
Obviously they won't grow into screeching fangirls when it comes to boys, but I just can't underestimate how much of an impact what we read/watch/etc. has on our views of interpersonal relationships. Those are the types of things parents don't discuss as easily with their kids as they do "Don't do this violent thing you're about to watch", or "don't swear like this guy in the movie".
I fully appreciate and agree that Twilight itself will be harmless (if you feel it ever brought any harm to begin with) in a matter of a few years; that's not my concern. My concern is the trend it reinforces, and how that may not be going anywhere in the next few years.
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Jiren
Patti Mayonnaise
Hearts Bayformers
Posts: 35,163
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Post by Jiren on Nov 23, 2009 22:30:37 GMT -5
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Post by Mr. Emoticon Man, TF Fan on Nov 23, 2009 22:39:03 GMT -5
For the final time: Twilight is not the cause of the issue. It's emblematic of it, and disturbing to me insofar as it's directed at a young audience. This trend exists outside of Twilight, so, no, it's not the root cause, and yes, a healthy number of people will outgrow the childish clinging to it, but an incredibly large number will not shed the childish views on relationships. Obviously they won't grow into screeching fangirls when it comes to boys, but I just can't underestimate how much of an impact what we read/watch/etc. has on our views of interpersonal relationships. Those are the types of things parents don't discuss as easily with their kids as they do "Don't do this violent thing you're about to watch", or "don't swear like this guy in the movie". I fully appreciate and agree that Twilight itself will be harmless (if you feel it ever brought any harm to begin with) in a matter of a few years; that's not my concern. My concern is the trend it reinforces, and how that may not be going anywhere in the next few years. I get what you're saying. But there are those who think of Twilight as a cause, rather than just a reflection, and that ideology is what I questioned/challenged in my post. My apologies if wires got crossed here.
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Post by The Charismatic Enabeler on Nov 24, 2009 1:33:11 GMT -5
From what I hear the twilight movie just made 40 year old women lust after a 17 year old kid. Gross.
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Triple Kelly
Vegeta
Not once, twice, but three times a Kelly
Posts: 9,470
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Post by Triple Kelly on Nov 24, 2009 1:56:11 GMT -5
Alright, this video made me Spoony's #1 fan. He hit every point spot-f***ing-on! I love his British accent for the Volturi a-holes, lol. The women are weak-willed, shallow, co-dependent bitches and the men are subservient morons. Stephanie Meyer, you SUCK! YOU SUCK! YOU SUCK! That felt good. EDIT: I think Spoony's quote at the end is so apropos. "You should never have to beg for love, and if you do, it ain’t love." Well said.
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Goldenbane
Hank Scorpio
THE G.D. Goldenbane
Posts: 7,331
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Post by Goldenbane on Nov 24, 2009 2:29:08 GMT -5
Man, that was awesome! Whenever Spoony talks about something I like, he always does a good job! Funny stuff!
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Post by G✇JI☈A on Nov 24, 2009 2:49:14 GMT -5
Listened to the Audio review of this film from Spill.com
Awesome, I love it when they shit all over a terrible film.
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Post by Hassan bin Sober on Nov 24, 2009 7:00:34 GMT -5
There was a huge line here at the movie theater and not a single car in the parking lot. Must have all been dropped off by their parents.
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