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Post by Seth Drakin of Monster Crap on Mar 9, 2010 17:36:11 GMT -5
I think here was the problem......you dont debut RVD against STING. It was a no win situation either way as you make either one of your biggest acquistions and one of the biggest stars in history look like a chump.
And if you are going to do that, put on a match.....not a quick pin and a beatup. It doesnt matter that Sting used a bat in these days because things have changed where we have made guys invulnerable to weapons.
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dpg
Samurai Cop
Posts: 2,480
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Post by dpg on Mar 9, 2010 17:38:06 GMT -5
I think here was the problem......you dont debut RVD against STING. It was a no win situation either way as you make either one of your biggest acquistions and one of the biggest stars in history look like a chump. And if you are going to do that, put on a match.....not a quick pin and a beatup. It doesnt matter that Sting used a bat in these days because things have changed where we have made guys invulnerable to weapons. Sting was being made a heel, RVD is a huge face that will be over whatever's done to him, so having him beat Sting then have sting beat him down made sense. It got RVD over as a big name capable of ebating guys like sting, and got sting over as a heel willing to attack someone with a bat just because he lost to them.
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Post by kropotkin on Mar 9, 2010 17:50:18 GMT -5
Uh...we have? Someone alert the military.
People are grasping for straws. Jericho can go sit on it. The segment went over huge live, and it's largely gone over well on TV as well.
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biff
Bubba Ho-Tep
RIP Mike Awesome
Posts: 642
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Post by biff on Mar 9, 2010 17:54:36 GMT -5
If Jericho had WWE any farther up his ass he'd be sneezing Hornswaggles. He's one of the top guys in the biggest wrestling company in the world yet he feels like he needs to attack TNA every other day on twitter
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Post by Seth Drakin of Monster Crap on Mar 9, 2010 17:57:27 GMT -5
I think here was the problem......you dont debut RVD against STING. It was a no win situation either way as you make either one of your biggest acquistions and one of the biggest stars in history look like a chump. And if you are going to do that, put on a match.....not a quick pin and a beatup. It doesnt matter that Sting used a bat in these days because things have changed where we have made guys invulnerable to weapons. Sting was being made a heel, RVD is a huge face that will be over whatever's done to him, so having him beat Sting then have sting beat him down made sense. It got RVD over as a big name capable of ebating guys like sting, and got sting over as a heel willing to attack someone with a bat just because he lost to them. Than have an actual match and not a 5 second fluke followed by a long ass beatdown. There were a number of segments that could have been cut so we could get that result.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Mar 9, 2010 17:58:30 GMT -5
Not a burial at all. RVD's win did come off as a fluke (beating Sting in 10 seconds should not be considered the norm), but Sting's beatdown involved him hitting RVD from behind and using a BASEBALL BAT. That doesn't make RVD look like a jobber, that makes him look human.
I understand people wanted RVD to look strong and be featured on his debut, and maybe he should have been, but it finally put some heel heat on Sting and get Van Dam in a main event calibre storyline right off the bat.
The fact that Jericho is openly commenting on TNA is probably a good sign for TNA.
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Post by Seth Drakin of Monster Crap on Mar 9, 2010 17:59:44 GMT -5
Uh...we have? Someone alert the military. People are grasping for straws. Jericho can go sit on it. The segment went over huge live, and it's largely gone over well on TV as well. Let me tell you the truth, it doesnt take much to make to go over with Impact audience. Hell, someone in the crowd thought Scott Hall ruled. Also, I could give you Hogan, Undertaker, Kane......there plenty of guys in the higher ups who have been made impervious to certain weapons. Also, RVD was in FREAKIN' ECW......THE ACTUAL ECW!!!!
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comahan
Bill S. Preston, Esq.
Posts: 17,899
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Post by comahan on Mar 9, 2010 18:01:32 GMT -5
Uh...we have? Someone alert the military. People are grasping for straws. Jericho can go sit on it. The segment went over huge live, and it's largely gone over well on TV as well. Let me tell you the truth, it doesnt take much to make to go over with Impact audience. Hell, someone in the crowd thought Scott Hall ruled. Also, I could give you Hogan, Undertaker, Kane......there plenty of guys in the higher ups who have been made impervious to certain weapons. Also, RVD was in FREAKIN' ECW......THE ACTUAL ECW!!!! Which means... that he no sells bat attacks?
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Post by Seth Drakin of Monster Crap on Mar 9, 2010 18:04:22 GMT -5
Let me tell you the truth, it doesnt take much to make to go over with Impact audience. Hell, someone in the crowd thought Scott Hall ruled. Also, I could give you Hogan, Undertaker, Kane......there plenty of guys in the higher ups who have been made impervious to certain weapons. Also, RVD was in FREAKIN' ECW......THE ACTUAL ECW!!!! Which means... that he no sells bat attacks? No....it means you take more than one bat shot to put the man down. RVD doubled over after one shot.
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Post by machomuta on Mar 9, 2010 18:11:45 GMT -5
He gets a win over one of the biggest icons in wrestling... yeah, poor RVD I know. RVD was burried big time
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comahan
Bill S. Preston, Esq.
Posts: 17,899
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Post by comahan on Mar 9, 2010 18:18:25 GMT -5
Which means... that he no sells bat attacks? No....it means you take more than one bat shot to put the man down. RVD doubled over after one shot. Doubling over? After one shot? To the stomach? With a baseball bat? How unrealistic. Way to ruin my suspension for disbelief, guys!
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Post by jobsquad on Mar 9, 2010 18:32:51 GMT -5
I didn't see it as a burial at all. A guy who's generally regarded as a legend attacked him with a friggin' baseball bat. Despite that, he refused to stay down. It's not even like one shot did him in. He had to get hit repeatedly. I don't think we're going to see Hogan vs Sting, at least not in the immediate future. I believe we're getting RVD-Sting well before that. I'm betting Hogan continues to play authority/mentor for Abyss for a bit. I'm betting the next time we see them on TV, RVD gets the better of Sting. It's the way feuds are built, people. It is, but in general, there are better ways to do the spot, better ways to get to it. That is what Jericho is talking about.
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Post by HMARK Center on Mar 9, 2010 18:36:21 GMT -5
Guys, honestly, this was one segment on the show where I can't see where almost any of the criticism is coming from (except for people not liking Hogan being held back...I understood Hogan coming out, but he didn't need any spotlight, there).
Rob Van Dam will be over the next time he's on TV. He'll be over whenever he's on TV.
On the other hand, the prevailing wisdom has always been Sting will NEVER be over as a heel. He'll never do anything to get the bulk of an audience to boo him.
Well, Sting basically tried to kill Rob Van Dam. Sting is, at long last, a true heel.
The questions asked before had to do with "who benefits from this?"
Honestly, the only way somebody doesn't benefit is if RVD never gets to have any follow up on this, and considering he said he only wanted to go to TNA if he worked with the top talent, I think it's safe to say that he'll get a follow up, even if he spends next week's show selling the "injuries".
Otherwise, EVERYBODY benefits.
Now, you may not agree with turning Sting heel, and that's your prerogative and opinion, which is absolutely fine. However, if you ARE going to turn a legend like Sting, the most perpetual babyface this side of Ricky Steamboat, into a maniacal heel, THIS was how you'd do it.
Frankly, I enjoyed the segment because, if nothing else, it was ballsy (excuse the bluntness there). Not only did they actually SUCCESSFULLY turn Sting, they also took the whole "OH WOW NEW GUY OMG OMG OMG" and completely flipped it upside down.
Guys like RVD usually debut in TNA and all but take over the place. Christian stormed in and was champion in a few months. Kurt Angle headbutted Samoa Joe, didn't take long to become champion.
RVD, a truly big, popular name, comes in, gets a win, but then is beaten like an animal. He keeps trying to get up, showing pride, but the now-twisted Sting is merciless to him.
Again, as long as RVD gets a follow-up on this, it may be one of the more well done and unexpected angles I've seen in a long, long time.
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Post by Crazy Diamond on Mar 9, 2010 18:37:14 GMT -5
Which means... that he no sells bat attacks? No....it means you take more than one bat shot to put the man down. RVD doubled over after one shot. He should have bitch-slapped him with a piss-stained NES.
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Post by rawthentic on Mar 9, 2010 18:38:01 GMT -5
Cause buuilding heel heat on a guy by using the popularity of the new guy is clueless? Plus Sting had a bat. You don't get up from the bat that takes down the whole nWo. You miss the point. The beat down made RVD look more like a jobber, and the pin on sting look like a fluke. As if RVD needs to be made to look like a threat/or jobber or put over. The guy has been long established as a star in the business. He could job every match and he would still be over. If anything, RVD played a good role in achieving what i thought was impossible these days...getting Sting heat.
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Post by poi zen rana on Mar 9, 2010 18:53:50 GMT -5
I think at the end of the day some people may think RVD was made to look bad. If you believe that it is your opinion and you are quite entitled. What matters to TNA however is their fans and truth be told judging from the way the fans reacted they didn't buy it as a burial. You may think it was a burial but a majority of the fans didn't. And at the end of the day TNA cares more about pleasing their fans (who enjoyed it) than they do about pleasing Jericho.
I think if we look at the situation realistically some people may say RVD had his momentum killed, but many more didn't think that and enjoyed the segment. And when TNA gets a majority of their fans to enjoy something that is a success for them whether Jericho and some the minority of their fans didn't.
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Post by Natalya's Ass Fanboy on Mar 9, 2010 19:42:10 GMT -5
Anybody who thinks R.V.D.'s credibility is hurt any by the beating Sting gave him last night needs to get a clue and stop over-analyzing everything.
First of all, R.V.D. picked up the win, second of all, despite being beaten to within an inch of his life with probably 20+ blows from the bat, he continued to go after Sting. If anything the segment put over R.V.D. as one tough s.o.b. while also getting Sting megaheat.'
It was a perfectly booked segment and Jericho disliked it because (a) he has a grudge against those in charge of TNA, and (b) he's a WWE guy who's pissed over the decisively positive feeling of last night's iMPACT! compared to yet another ho-hum, snooze-worthy RAW.
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Post by "Playboy" Don Douglas on Mar 9, 2010 19:44:39 GMT -5
He should have bitch-slapped him with a piss-stained NES. I'm not exactly sure why, but this amuses me greatly.
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barley96
Dennis Stamp
This is the biggest Mickie James mark
Posts: 4,170
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Post by barley96 on Mar 9, 2010 19:51:48 GMT -5
I am on the fence with this. I like this heel Sting and the build up to it. However I am not sure if doing this to a debuting wrestler was the right thing. I am glad that TNA did not use WWE's formula and use a jobber for the beatdown. As I said I am on the fence.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Mar 9, 2010 19:58:37 GMT -5
I would like what the reaction would have been if this happened in the WWE, with RVD debuting in the same fashion only with HHH and a sledgehammer in Stings place......
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