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Post by misconduct was wrong on Apr 7, 2012 21:00:50 GMT -5
I think people are just starting to reject WWE's forced pet projects in general. That's why no one has really taken to Sheamus or Del Rio. They got super pushed from day 1 because the WWE likes them and the crowd just doesn't seem to be feeling it. I don't agree with that. Even on Raw Sheamus got decent reactions. It's entirely about the WM debacle. As for what they're going to do moving forward.... They seem set on somehow salvaging this. That became clear with Bryan's segment on SD. He did whatever he could to squash the yesyesyes. And I'll bet money on him NEVER doing the yes thing again. He must've died a little inside when he was crushing the crowd. Not saying it'll work, but they certainly tried. |
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CH Punk
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Post by CH Punk on Apr 7, 2012 21:07:54 GMT -5
I think people are just starting to reject WWE's forced pet projects in general. That's why no one has really taken to Sheamus or Del Rio. They got super pushed from day 1 because the WWE likes them and the crowd just doesn't seem to be feeling it. I don't agree with that. Even on Raw Sheamus got decent reactions. It's entirely about the WM debacle. As for what they're going to do moving forward.... They seem set on somehow salvaging this. That became clear with Bryan's segment on SD. He did whatever he could to squash the yesyesyes. And I'll bet money on him NEVER doing the yes thing again. He must've died a little inside when he was crushing the crowd. Not saying it'll work, but they certainly tried. They're still in crisis management mode, so if Bryan continues to get opposite reactions, then I can imagine WWE turning Bryan into the most evil man on the planet. But, if Bryan returns to the strong heel reaction he had before Miami, then he might bring back YES! once he's in a position to use it (Champion or #1 contender). |
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Post by Big Kahuna Burger on Apr 7, 2012 21:41:02 GMT -5
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Post by Kevin Hamilton on Apr 7, 2012 21:49:47 GMT -5
They'd be stupid as hell to squash the Yes! thing.
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Post by Allie Kitsune on Apr 7, 2012 22:14:33 GMT -5
They'd be stupid as hell to squash the Yes! thing. Say that once Bryan's been gone for 3 years and the crowd still won't shut up with it. |
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Post by Wolf Hurricane on Apr 7, 2012 22:22:19 GMT -5
They'd be stupid as hell to squash the Yes! thing. Say that once Bryan's been gone for 3 years and the crowd still won't shut up with it. Perhaps it's the youth of it, but the "YES!" chants aren't even annoying, let alone as annoying as the "WHAT?" chants. Also, you don't have to worry about people chanting "YES!" to try and drown out or derail a guy's promo. |
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Post by ecabney on Apr 7, 2012 22:35:00 GMT -5
"he's only affected because he's HHH's gym buddy who's been pushed to champ for no other reason and has yet to do anything noteworthy in his career other than spot HHH in the gym.
if there was a deserving babyface or someone the crowd actually liked, and the same result happened at mania, they would've gotten cheered. but everyone knows shame us is a fraud."
from another forum, and I c/s
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Post by cabbageboy on Apr 7, 2012 22:37:19 GMT -5
Speaking of those who don't study history being doomed to repeat it, let's recall the last time someone won a world title in such a joke of a match. It was Diesel when he beat Backlund in about 9 seconds for the title....and Nash went on to be the worst drawing WWF champion of all time (for guys who had a real run with the belt). Fans simply do not buy into someone getting the belt in such bogus, fluke fashion.
Let's not kid ourselves here with Sheamus. Before the Rumble did the guy have any semblance of momentum really? He lost a goofy battle royal on SD to Hornswoggle for crying out loud and really just seemed like someone who might do okay in the Rumble before being eliminated. In fact his win really took the heat off Jericho's return.
Further, the fans have already spoken in regards to Sheamus as a main eventer and the verdict is "This guy can't draw." Weren't Sheamus' PPV title defenses some of the worst drawing PPVs in WWE history?
The whole WM match was a disaster. It backfired horribly on Sheamus and also it's going to be awfully difficult to take Bryan seriously after losing in 18 seconds. Who took Backlund seriously after losing the belt in 9 seconds? Actually that scenario in 1994 even made Bret Hart look bad as well, since he had gone about 40 minutes with Backlund and lost at Survivor Series. They were likely going for a HTM/Warrior scenario with Sheamus/Bryan but Bryan hadn't held the title all that long and Sheamus was a scheduled opponent and not a random mystery guy like Warrior.
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Post by thelonewolf527 on Apr 7, 2012 22:53:02 GMT -5
Speaking of those who don't study history being doomed to repeat it, let's recall the last time someone won a world title in such a joke of a match. It was Diesel when he beat Backlund in about 9 seconds for the title....and Nash went on to be the worst drawing WWF champion of all time (for guys who had a real run with the belt). Fans simply do not buy into someone getting the belt in such bogus, fluke fashion. Let's not kid ourselves here with Sheamus. Before the Rumble did the guy have any semblance of momentum really? He lost a goofy battle royal on SD to Hornswoggle for crying out loud and really just seemed like someone who might do okay in the Rumble before being eliminated. In fact his win really took the heat off Jericho's return. Further, the fans have already spoken in regards to Sheamus as a main eventer and the verdict is "This guy can't draw." Weren't Sheamus' PPV title defenses some of the worst drawing PPVs in WWE history? The whole WM match was a disaster. It backfired horribly on Sheamus and also it's going to be awfully difficult to take Bryan seriously after losing in 18 seconds. Who took Backlund seriously after losing the belt in 9 seconds? Actually that scenario in 1994 even made Bret Hart look bad as well, since he had gone about 40 minutes with Backlund and lost at Survivor Series. They were likely going for a HTM/Warrior scenario with Sheamus/Bryan but Bryan hadn't held the title all that long and Sheamus was a scheduled opponent and not a random mystery guy like Warrior. Nash also have absolutely no one credible to defend the title against though, nor was the guy he won it from really credible either. Sheamus has Bryan, Del Rio, Orton, Kane, and whoever else comes to SmackDown from the draft. |
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Post by Mac on Apr 7, 2012 23:04:10 GMT -5
Speaking of those who don't study history being doomed to repeat it, let's recall the last time someone won a world title in such a joke of a match. It was Diesel when he beat Backlund in about 9 seconds for the title....and Nash went on to be the worst drawing WWF champion of all time (for guys who had a real run with the belt). Fans simply do not buy into someone getting the belt in such bogus, fluke fashion. Let's not kid ourselves here with Sheamus. Before the Rumble did the guy have any semblance of momentum really? He lost a goofy battle royal on SD to Hornswoggle for crying out loud and really just seemed like someone who might do okay in the Rumble before being eliminated. In fact his win really took the heat off Jericho's return. Further, the fans have already spoken in regards to Sheamus as a main eventer and the verdict is "This guy can't draw." Weren't Sheamus' PPV title defenses some of the worst drawing PPVs in WWE history? The whole WM match was a disaster. It backfired horribly on Sheamus and also it's going to be awfully difficult to take Bryan seriously after losing in 18 seconds. Who took Backlund seriously after losing the belt in 9 seconds? Actually that scenario in 1994 even made Bret Hart look bad as well, since he had gone about 40 minutes with Backlund and lost at Survivor Series. They were likely going for a HTM/Warrior scenario with Sheamus/Bryan but Bryan hadn't held the title all that long and Sheamus was a scheduled opponent and not a random mystery guy like Warrior. Nash also have absolutely no one credible to defend the title against though, nor was the guy he won it from really credible either. Sheamus has Bryan, Del Rio, Orton, Kane, and whoever else comes to SmackDown from the draft. Diesel had Sid, Bret and Shawn. Sure the summer sucked and I think WWF was still trying to find their footing with 12 PPVs a year so we had a lot of main events that were "eh?" Plus Nash was a single champion. The WHC is basically a juiced version of the IC title and plays second fiddle to the WWE title. |
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Post by corndog on Apr 7, 2012 23:36:42 GMT -5
If the reactions continue, you pretty much have to turn Sheamus heel and atleast Bryan a tweener/face. I though Bryan's heel character was great, so that is the only problem here. Two live shows back to back on Monday and Tuesday should make it very interesting. If the reactions are still the same, they need to acknowledge them and have a gameplan. Covering them up on Smackdown, only to get exposed on live Raws and ppvs is pretty pointless. Also it might just make things worse.
This is why people enjoyed the Attitude, Vince finally started just going with the flow and letting the fans choose who were the faces. The Rock was originally intended to be a face and it failed miserably, so he turned heel. Austin was originally a heel and people loved him, so they turned him face. DX was heel and never supposed to be face, but in 98 the fans turned them face. He didn't dub over reactions or try to force feed anything, if the fans turned on someone he turned them on the fans and vice versa. The wrestling itself is much better now, but this forcing things down our throats is much worse.
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Post by Dub H on Apr 7, 2012 23:39:46 GMT -5
Speaking of those who don't study history being doomed to repeat it, let's recall the last time someone won a world title in such a joke of a match. It was Diesel when he beat Backlund in about 9 seconds for the title....and Nash went on to be the worst drawing WWF champion of all time (for guys who had a real run with the belt). Fans simply do not buy into someone getting the belt in such bogus, fluke fashion. Let's not kid ourselves here with Sheamus. Before the Rumble did the guy have any semblance of momentum really? He lost a goofy battle royal on SD to Hornswoggle for crying out loud and really just seemed like someone who might do okay in the Rumble before being eliminated. In fact his win really took the heat off Jericho's return. Further, the fans have already spoken in regards to Sheamus as a main eventer and the verdict is "This guy can't draw." Weren't Sheamus' PPV title defenses some of the worst drawing PPVs in WWE history? The whole WM match was a disaster. It backfired horribly on Sheamus and also it's going to be awfully difficult to take Bryan seriously after losing in 18 seconds. Who took Backlund seriously after losing the belt in 9 seconds? Actually that scenario in 1994 even made Bret Hart look bad as well, since he had gone about 40 minutes with Backlund and lost at Survivor Series. They were likely going for a HTM/Warrior scenario with Sheamus/Bryan but Bryan hadn't held the title all that long and Sheamus was a scheduled opponent and not a random mystery guy like Warrior. Nash also have absolutely no one credible to defend the title against though, nor was the guy he won it from really credible either. Sheamus has Bryan, Del Rio, Orton, Kane, and whoever else comes to SmackDown from the draft. honestly,the only one of these you can say credible is Orton,maybe Kane. Del Rio?Credible?No,he is just a guy that the crowd doesnt care.Kane it really depends....and Bryan,the way the reactions are going,it would end worse for Sheamus |
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Post by Welfare Willis on Apr 7, 2012 23:54:19 GMT -5
Just wanted to say I don't have a problem with Sheamus as a wrestler. Dude has a great look. What I think the problem as mentioned earlier is they took the belt off a much more popular IWC wrestler. A guy who was still getting tweener pops. They compounded the problem by having Sheamus as this kind of smiling babyface champion we've all seen a million times over.
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Mac
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Post by Mac on Apr 8, 2012 0:03:57 GMT -5
They took the belt of a guy who wasn't brought up cradle to grave through the WWE machine and put it on a guy who cradle to grave has been brought up through the WWE machine. We wrestles the boring "safe style" and totes the company line and comes across as a complete bore who got his shot via politics and not the crowd demanding he be a world champion.
The young fans that bought the G rated, generic milquetoast WWE fanboy product 5 years ago are in their late teens and early 20's now and just aren't anymore.
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Post by Cry Me a Wiggle on Apr 8, 2012 0:09:31 GMT -5
The fact is, Daniel Bryan had all of the momentum going into WrestleMania, while Sheamus had none. Bryan's been catching on as a character and has really blossomed into something special, so much so that several people here were wondering if they were going to keep the title on him to keep the fire burning.
The sad thing is, Sheamus was just a generic wrestling who won the Royal Rumble, got his title match against Bryan, and really did nothing to further the feud. It's less of an indictment against him and more the fans rejecting that the more interesting character got the shaft.
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Post by kyromax on Apr 8, 2012 0:18:29 GMT -5
They took the belt of a guy who wasn't brought up cradle to grave through the WWE machine and put it on a guy who cradle to grave has been brought up through the WWE machine. We wrestles the boring "safe style" and totes the company line and comes across as a complete bore who got his shot via politics and not the crowd demanding he be a world champion. The young fans that bought the G rated, generic milquetoast WWE fanboy product 5 years ago are in their late teens and early 20's now and just aren't anymore. Your right. This is how the Attitude era started. People who were always wrestling fans, but WWE's product was "cartoony". When they started pushing the edge, those fan's came back. |
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Post by flatsdomino on Apr 8, 2012 0:34:35 GMT -5
How about sending Jericho to Smackdown to stabilize things?
Hear me out - Jericho attacks Sheamus on the go-home Smackdown for Extreme Rules after teasing on Raw that he's got some big plan, bigger than CM Punk, bigger than the WWE title. At Extreme Rules, he talks about becoming the first undisputed champion and how he's here
to make history and do it again, challenging whoever wins the Daniel Bryan v. Sheamus v. Del Rio WHC match to a match against Chris Jericho on Smackdown after he wins the WWE title tonight, winner take all.
Punk beats Jericho, and Jericho's not on Raw the next night, and the announcers talk about how his big plan failed. On Smackdown, a rematch between Bryan and Sheamus happens, after weeks of Bryan becoming a more serious competitor again. This one goes on for a while, with Sheamus BARELY pulling out the victory, only after some controversy that leaves doubt as to whether Bryan could've beaten Sheamus if whatever happened didn't happen. As an exhausted Sheamus celebrates, Jericho comes out and announces that he still has that challenge out, and that John Laurenitis has granted him his shot RIGHT NOW. Sheamus puts up a fight, but after missing a brogue kick he gets hit with a Codebreaker and boom - Jericho is the new WHC. While he celebrates, Bryan comes out and stares him down from the ramp as the commentators put over how Jericho only won because Bryan softened Sheamus.
Now, there's a very clearly defined top heel on Smackdown who IS a heel - that being Jericho. Del Rio can be a heel with him, while Sheamus is a face, and Bryan plays the tweener. Eventually, Bryan will turn face, but for now, he reluctantly works with Sheamus to take on Del Rio and Jericho.
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Post by misconduct was wrong on Apr 8, 2012 0:35:39 GMT -5
I have to disagree completely with the people saying he had NO momentum. Perhaps among the smarks, but he WAS getting cheers. Just rewatch the reaction he got after winning the Rumble.
I understand the nature of this board to come up with flaws that a guy really doesn't have just find more reasons to blame him for something that wasn't his fault in the first place. I think a "F*** you Vince!" chant would be the most appropriate.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 8, 2012 0:50:28 GMT -5
I would say "momentum" means that his reactions are growing, and he is getting more and more steam as a character. If anything, Sheamus was on a plateau, where fans gave him a pop but there wasn't any kind of feeling of growth or progression. Bryan, on the other hand, was getting stronger and stronger reactions every week and really catching on.
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Post by mizerable on Apr 8, 2012 0:52:31 GMT -5
He was definitely getting cheers, but not nearly as much as he was 6 months ago if you want to go back and compare. He definitely lost a lot of steam between his face turn and now, and honestly...it's not his fault, just several mishandlings including that stupid battle royal with Hornswoggle...even that made me think he was a turd.
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