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Post by Joker on May 5, 2013 19:12:02 GMT -5
The thing is ... {Spoiler}Spoiler
Mandarin is kind of complicated for a first movie villain, he shouldn't be beaten by Iron Man Mark 1 armor really. He also suffers from Fu-Manchu issues in that some may find him to be a poor sterotype of Asian cultures, so perhaps they were treading carefully to not offend certain cultures. Also Iron Man villains aren't that good/memorable in general (Mandarin included)... Maybe Ghost would work but he's probably too low key as amajor Iron Man villain ... I guess thereis MODOK but after Iron man 3 I doubt we'll being seeing him. Even now after it being a two weeks since seeing it I still think it was good. |
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Legion
Fry's dog Seymour
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Hail Hydra!
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Post by Legion on May 5, 2013 19:23:43 GMT -5
The original reason for no Mandarin was supposedly because they didnt want to use the Rings - this was way back before Avengers was more than an idea and when they wanted Iron Man to be 'real.'
Black didnt use him because he wanted to make some pseudo political statement and have a joke, as well as avoid the whole 'Fu Manchu' stuff that Mandarin hasnt been in the comics in decades but that people couldnt seem to grasp when discussing him
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Post by Wolfpack Bitch on May 5, 2013 19:58:00 GMT -5
Just got back from seeing it again and still enjoy it. Picked up on one other thing that gave me a giggle {Spoiler}{Spoiler}When the extremis people come out of whatever fire they fall into and regenerate... the Terminator 2 music plays LMAO Can't believe I didn't notice that before
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Post by Piccolo on May 5, 2013 20:15:58 GMT -5
I enjoyed the heck out of it! I understand the concerns from a comic fan's perspective, but I think the movie 'verse is kind of its own thing. Everything about it, from the effects to the script to the acting, was quality. Good way to cap off the Iron Man movies, assuming they end them here.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on May 5, 2013 20:16:29 GMT -5
{Spoiler}{Spoiler}While I loved a lot of things about the movie, I do not buy the terrorists that kidnapped Tony in Iron Man to be flunkies for A.I.M. and controlled by Aldrich Killian.
There is a serious disconnect there for me. |
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Post by YAKMAN is ICHIBAN on May 5, 2013 20:54:39 GMT -5
{Spoiler}{Spoiler}While I loved a lot of things about the movie, I do not buy the terrorists that kidnapped Tony in Iron Man to be flunkies for A.I.M. and controlled by Aldrich Killian.
There is a serious disconnect there for me. {Spoiler}{Spoiler}They didn't really link The Mandarin to the Ten Rings terrorist group in any way, aside from the fact that his logo had ten circles on it. A huge waste of a possible connection to the first movie. |
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Post by Rolent Tex on May 5, 2013 22:00:30 GMT -5
{Spoiler}{Spoiler}While I loved a lot of things about the movie, I do not buy the terrorists that kidnapped Tony in Iron Man to be flunkies for A.I.M. and controlled by Aldrich Killian.
There is a serious disconnect there for me. {Spoiler}{Spoiler}They didn't really link The Mandarin to the Ten Rings terrorist group in any way, aside from the fact that his logo had ten circles on it. A huge waste of a possible connection to the first movie. {Spoiler}Mandarin was wearing the same ring that the main terrorist in the original was. |
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Post by Cela on May 5, 2013 22:09:05 GMT -5
{Spoiler}{Spoiler}They didn't really link The Mandarin to the Ten Rings terrorist group in any way, aside from the fact that his logo had ten circles on it. A huge waste of a possible connection to the first movie. {Spoiler}Mandarin was wearing the same ring that the main terrorist in the original was. Which makes even less sense! |
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Post by Rolent Tex on May 5, 2013 23:15:40 GMT -5
{Spoiler}Mandarin was wearing the same ring that the main terrorist in the original was. Which makes even less sense! {Spoiler} Well Jon Favreau stated that the Mandarin was a working behind the scenes presence. The Ten Rings terrorist cell was of course a nod to him with Raza wearing one of the ten rings. Favreau also said the man that helped break Ivan Vanko out of jail in IM2 was also Ten Rings even though it wasn't stated in the movie. I still have yet to see 3 so I don't know if any connection was hinted. |
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Juice
El Dandy
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Post by Juice on May 5, 2013 23:18:17 GMT -5
Here is a thought.
Iron Man 3 was funded with Chinese money.
The Mandarin is a Chinese villain.
Perhaps they couldn't use a true Mandarin because the Chinese didn't want a chinese character being evil and destroyed by the american Tony Stark?
also watched this for second time tonight, still loved the hell out of it.
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Post by Cela on May 6, 2013 0:10:13 GMT -5
Here is a thought. Iron Man 3 was funded with Chinese money. The Mandarin is a Chinese villain. Perhaps they couldn't use a true Mandarin because the Chinese didn't want a chinese character being evil and destroyed by the american Tony Stark? also watched this for second time tonight, still loved the hell out of it. No one seemed to have issues with the casting of Ben Kingsley. |
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Post by Piccolo on May 6, 2013 7:10:24 GMT -5
Here is a thought. Iron Man 3 was funded with Chinese money. The Mandarin is a Chinese villain. Perhaps they couldn't use a true Mandarin because the Chinese didn't want a chinese character being evil and destroyed by the american Tony Stark? also watched this for second time tonight, still loved the hell out of it. I'm sure that was part of it, as well as the general level of offense that a Chinese villain calling himself The Mandarin and being all Orientalism-exoticized would've generated. Having him be the creation of a white man, who hired a non-Chinese actor to portray him at that, gets us back to the racially inoffensive white guy vs white guy fight. |
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EyeofTyr
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Post by EyeofTyr on May 6, 2013 7:23:58 GMT -5
The twist just doesn't make any sense.
It'd be like taking all the hype The Joker got in the Dark Knight and then pulling this. Or, doing this to Lex Luthor in a Superman movie.
This is on par with Venom's treatment in the god awful third installment of Spider-man.
You don't do this to the villain of a hero's franchise. You certainly don't do this to that villain after hyping the crap out of him with subtle hints for three movies and then use him as the focus for the promotion heading into the movie. It's ridiculous and strips away alot of Stark's pathos and mythos.
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543Y2J
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Post by 543Y2J on May 6, 2013 7:32:06 GMT -5
Here is a thought. Iron Man 3 was funded with Chinese money. The Mandarin is a Chinese villain. Perhaps they couldn't use a true Mandarin because the Chinese didn't want a chinese character being evil and destroyed by the american Tony Stark? also watched this for second time tonight, still loved the hell out of it. If that is the case, then I can't understand why they would put him in the movie to begin with? I don't know that much about Ironman in comic books but it's not exactly like they have a lack of choice as far as villains go (even if Mandarin is the most well know and his greatest enemy), when from what I have seen The Ghost, Spymaster, Ultron or AIM could have made decent choices (but that is off me doing a 2 minute google search and I am sure many people on here know more about his comic book history and his villains). |
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Post by Starshine on May 6, 2013 7:44:52 GMT -5
Here is a thought. Iron Man 3 was funded with Chinese money. The Mandarin is a Chinese villain. Perhaps they couldn't use a true Mandarin because the Chinese didn't want a chinese character being evil and destroyed by the american Tony Stark? also watched this for second time tonight, still loved the hell out of it. If that is the case, then I can't understand why they would put him in the movie to begin with? I don't know that much about Ironman in comic books but it's not exactly like they have a lack of choice as far as villains go (even if Mandarin is the most well know and his greatest enemy), when from what I have seen The Ghost, Spymaster, Ultron or AIM could have made decent choices (but that is off me doing a 2 minute google search and I am sure many people on here know more about his comic book history and his villains). They couldn't really do Ultron considering they're still trying to do an Antman movie. And AIM was in this one.  |
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543Y2J
Patti Mayonnaise
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Post by 543Y2J on May 6, 2013 7:53:01 GMT -5
If that is the case, then I can't understand why they would put him in the movie to begin with? I don't know that much about Ironman in comic books but it's not exactly like they have a lack of choice as far as villains go (even if Mandarin is the most well know and his greatest enemy), when from what I have seen The Ghost, Spymaster, Ultron or AIM could have made decent choices (but that is off me doing a 2 minute google search and I am sure many people on here know more about his comic book history and his villains). They couldn't really do Ultron considering they're still trying to do an Antman movie. And AIM was in this one. Oh yeah of course Extremis lol, this movie had to much going on in it....... Ah Is Ultron more in the Antman lore? I thought Antman has got confirmed in phase 3, so its on its way? Would Ghost or Spymaster have worked for this one? They looked and sounded pretty cool from what I have seen. Or are they not well know or legit enough as the Manderin? |
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Post by Joker on May 6, 2013 8:15:50 GMT -5
Here is a thought. Iron Man 3 was funded with Chinese money. The Mandarin is a Chinese villain. Perhaps they couldn't use a true Mandarin because the Chinese didn't want a chinese character being evil and destroyed by the american Tony Stark? also watched this for second time tonight, still loved the hell out of it. If that is the case, then I can't understand why they would put him in the movie to begin with? I don't know that much about Ironman in comic books but it's not exactly like they have a lack of choice as far as villains go (even if Mandarin is the most well know and his greatest enemy), when from what I have seen The Ghost, Spymaster, Ultron or AIM could have made decent choices (but that is off me doing a 2 minute google search and I am sure many people on here know more about his comic book history and his villains). Ghost & Spymaster are industrial spies, not really going to light the world on fire for a big final encounter in an action movie (Ghost might work at a pinch has the ability to become intangible) AIM would work if headed by MODOK (Arguably we got AIM in this film anyway.) Ultron is a Hank Pym Avengers villain who most of the time owns Iron Man due to his reliance on machines which Ultron just takes over, he's not an Iron Man villain. Iron man's rogue list is pretty thin anyway: Arsenal, Blizzard, Chemistro, Coldblood, Controller, Crimson Dynamo, Dmitri Bukharin, Detroit Steel, Dreadknight, Edwin Cord, Fin Fang Foom, Firebrand, Firepower, Fixer, Freak, Ghost, Justin Hammer, Justine Hammer, Sasha Hammer, Iron Monger, Kearson DeWitt, Killer Shrike, Living Laser, Madame Masque, Mallen, Mandarin, Mauler, Melter, Mordecai Midas, MODOK, Raiders, Spymaster, Sunset Bain, Sunturion, Temugin, Titanium Man, Ultimo, Unicorn, Vibro, Whiplash, Whirlwind, Wong-Chu & Zeke Stane *I crossed out the ones who have appeared/used under different names. Whiplash basically turned into Titanium Man by the end of Iron Man 2, Mallen is the EXtremis villain in the comics, Wong-Chu is Raza from the first film. {Spoiler}{Spoiler}They could of course use Temugin after the Mandarin reveal in this film. Same powers/same rings ... |
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Rhody Codes
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Post by Rhody Codes on May 6, 2013 10:02:55 GMT -5
If that is the case, then I can't understand why they would put him in the movie to begin with? I don't know that much about Ironman in comic books but it's not exactly like they have a lack of choice as far as villains go (even if Mandarin is the most well know and his greatest enemy), when from what I have seen The Ghost, Spymaster, Ultron or AIM could have made decent choices (but that is off me doing a 2 minute google search and I am sure many people on here know more about his comic book history and his villains). Ghost & Spymaster are industrial spies, not really going to light the world on fire for a big final encounter in an action movie (Ghost might work at a pinch has the ability to become intangible) AIM would work if headed by MODOK (Arguably we got AIM in this film anyway.) Ultron is a Hank Pym Avengers villain who most of the time owns Iron Man due to his reliance on machines which Ultron just takes over, he's not an Iron Man villain. Iron man's rogue list is pretty thin anyway: Arsenal, Blizzard, Chemistro, Coldblood, Controller, Crimson Dynamo, Dmitri Bukharin, Detroit Steel, Dreadknight, Edwin Cord, Fin Fang Foom, Firebrand, Firepower, Fixer, Freak, Ghost, Justin Hammer, Justine Hammer, Sasha Hammer, Iron Monger, Kearson DeWitt, Killer Shrike, Living Laser, Madame Masque, Mallen, Mandarin, Mauler, Melter, Mordecai Midas, MODOK, Raiders, Spymaster, Sunset Bain, Sunturion, Temugin, Titanium Man, Ultimo, Unicorn, Vibro, Whiplash, Whirlwind, Wong-Chu & Zeke Stane *I crossed out the ones who have appeared/used under different names. Whiplash basically turned into Titanium Man by the end of Iron Man 2, Mallen is the EXtremis villain in the comics, Wong-Chu is Raza from the first film. {Spoiler}{Spoiler}They could of course use Temugin after the Mandarin reveal in this film. Same powers/same rings ... One other note: Coldblood & Firepower were in the film as Killian's second-in-command and the Extremis guy who blows up the movie theatre, respectively. |
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Post by Munkie91087 on May 6, 2013 10:23:43 GMT -5
I hate that because I am mad about the twist, I am accused of being some nerd-raging comic fan. I am allowed to be annoyed with the twist. It doesn't mean I am some stickler for the movie being exactly like the comic. Just because the movie made money and the general audience liked it, doesn't mean I can't be mad.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on May 6, 2013 12:48:58 GMT -5
Also Iron Man villains aren't that good/memorable in general (Mandarin included)... Maybe Ghost would work but he's probably too low key as a major Iron Man villain ... I guess thereis MODOK but after Iron man 3 I doubt we'll being seeing him. Iron Man's rogues gallery is a weird one - it's the Mandarin (who either has magic or science, and a big army, on his side), MODOK & AIM (evil super-scientists), a bunch of second-stringers who seem like they shouldn't be able to even throw a punch at Iron Man, and villains who are in big armor suits too. Madame Masque (a girl - an immediate Tony Stark weakness) could be probably be a higher tier villain for a movie. AIM, too - an army of evil super scientists just seems really cool to bring to life. |
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