lionheart21
Patti Mayonnaise
Once did a thing...
Posts: 30,524
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Post by lionheart21 on Jan 4, 2012 14:47:34 GMT -5
Stabbing someone 12 times seems a bit beyond defense. That was an act of rage and anger.
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King Ghidorah
El Dandy
On Probation for Charges of two counts of Saxual Music.
How Absurd
Posts: 8,330
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Post by King Ghidorah on Jan 4, 2012 14:54:22 GMT -5
I don't think a lot of people have been jumped here before, once its more than 1v1 all rules get thrown out, if the kid would have been hospitalized instead of dying, I'm sure the tone here would be different. Yes it sucks he died, but he brought it on himself by following someone who he thought he had power over. On the day I knew I was going to get jumped, I brought my brothers brass knuckles to school, fear can cause you to do irrational things.
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Dave at the Movies
Bill S. Preston, Esq.
VINTAGE D-DAY DAVE! Always cranking dat thing.
Posts: 18,224
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Post by Dave at the Movies on Jan 4, 2012 14:57:03 GMT -5
It's a sad story all around. Under the law he's allowed to defend himself more aggressively than he is attacked, I guess to try to deter further attacks. What's more, 12 stabbings makes me think the other kid did not stop attacking him after he pulled out his knife. He tried multiple times to avoid confrontration, but the bully had it in for him. Strikes to the back of the head can do severe damage. I don't think the bully deserved to die, but I don't think the other kid deserves jail time for killing him *unless* the bully ceased all aggression towards him after he pulled out the knife. Apparently there were witnesses. One would think some of them would have noticed that sort of thing. One would f***ing hope that they'd have held the knife-wielder back from f***ing killing another kid, but then again, maybe they're all kids too. Just a sad story all around. I feel bad for everyone involved. I doubt he gave the guy any chance to stop. When you pull out a knife you don't threaten with it the way you do with a gun. You pull it out quick and then stab. It is natural. I'm not saying that is what happen but it is most likely considering how reflexes work.
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BRV
Bill S. Preston, Esq.
Wants him some Taco Flavored Kisses.
Posts: 16,897
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Post by BRV on Jan 4, 2012 14:57:04 GMT -5
I have nothing against defending one's self, but this is no situation in which stabbing someone 12 times is deemed a reasonable means to defending yourself.
This sets an AWFUL precedent in our country, essentially telling people, "It's open season on bullies. It's okay, go ahead and kill someone. Provided they were bullying you, our hands are tied."
Look, I'm not one for bullying. I have absolutely no problem with fighting back and defending yourself. However, to brandish a weapon and murder someone in cold blood is taking this to unwanted extremes.
Like someone previously said, this won't be the end of bullying in the United States or abroad, because if the Columbine massacre didn't altogether stop bullying, nothing will.
However, this is just unsettling, that a person could get away with what was essentially First-Degree Murder, because he was the victim of bullying.
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Dave at the Movies
Bill S. Preston, Esq.
VINTAGE D-DAY DAVE! Always cranking dat thing.
Posts: 18,224
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Post by Dave at the Movies on Jan 4, 2012 15:00:16 GMT -5
To you people that think this kid deserves to get away with murder..I wanna stuff you into a locker and take your lunch money.As someone that got some crap during high school,I think this is pretty f***in' extreme. If you think it's all about bullying, you miss the point. This wasn't a kid who snapped, he was being attacked at that moment, he was outnumbered and the kids were older than him. What makes it questionable is the fact that he had a knife, but I think it's ridiculous if anyone is insinuating that you don't have the right to defend yourself when you're being attacked. And once you have the right to defend yourself, you can't expect people to be completely mechanical and measure exactly how much for they need. You're being powered by adrenaline at that point. When you take out all the other factors, he was being attacked, he had a weapon, and he used it on the people who were attacking him. The context gives us a more complete view on the two, but under the letter of the law, the kid did have a right to protect himself as he did. The law is sketchy. You have to remember that laws are arbitrary. Stop talking about laws as if they are commandments from a god or something. They change all the time.
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Post by Cyno on Jan 4, 2012 15:02:02 GMT -5
Good to see so many people kneejerk reacting to the thread title instead of taking time to actually read the article past the first paragraph.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
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Post by Deleted on Jan 4, 2012 15:04:21 GMT -5
Yeah...this topic is definitely going to be a hot button issue...especially for those that agree with the ruling...
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BRV
Bill S. Preston, Esq.
Wants him some Taco Flavored Kisses.
Posts: 16,897
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Post by BRV on Jan 4, 2012 15:07:32 GMT -5
You know what I really miss? When fighting used to be civilized.
It used to be, at least at my high school, that person A had a problem with person B, and person A challenged person B to a fight. Persons A and B met after school, fought, and that was the end of that.
Now people bring cronies in, there are sucker-punches thrown, people won't hesitate to retaliate after the fight is over, and weapons have been introduced. Whatever happened to settling things with fists like it used to be?
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Dave at the Movies
Bill S. Preston, Esq.
VINTAGE D-DAY DAVE! Always cranking dat thing.
Posts: 18,224
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Post by Dave at the Movies on Jan 4, 2012 15:09:23 GMT -5
You know what I really miss? When fighting used to be civilized. It used to be, at least at my high school, that person A had a problem with person B, and person A challenged person B to a fight. Persons A and B met after school, fought, and that was the end of that. Now people bring cronies in, there are sucker-punches thrown, people won't hesitate to retaliate after the fight is over, and weapons have been introduced. Whatever happened to settling things with fists like it used to be? Are you mistaking your old school for the old fight club you use to be in? ;D
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King Ghidorah
El Dandy
On Probation for Charges of two counts of Saxual Music.
How Absurd
Posts: 8,330
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Post by King Ghidorah on Jan 4, 2012 15:09:52 GMT -5
I wish people would stop putting it together with bullying, it was 3 people trying to attempt bodily harm on someone. Die you guys see the bully? That kid would have been destroyed. The amount of times stabbed is irrelevant, its the time between the stabs that are telling. The only other ending to that situation was the kid getting his ass kicked by 3 dudes, and that just leaves us with more be a star campaigns.
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Post by YAKMAN is ICHIBAN on Jan 4, 2012 15:10:10 GMT -5
You know what I really miss? When fighting used to be civilized. It used to be, at least at my high school, that person A had a problem with person B, and person A challenged person B to a fight. Persons A and B met after school, fought, and that was the end of that. Now people bring cronies in, there are sucker-punches thrown, people won't hesitate to retaliate after the fight is over, and weapons have been introduced. Whatever happened to settling things with fists like it used to be? We start carrying semi automatics, they buy automatics, we start wearing Kevlar, they buy armor piercing rounds, and *you're* wearing a mask and jumping off rooftops. take this guy: armed robbery, double homicide. Got a taste for the theatrical, like you. Leaves a calling card.
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erisi236
Fry's dog Seymour
... enjoys the rich, smooth taste of Camels.
Not good! Not good! Not good!
Posts: 21,904
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Post by erisi236 on Jan 4, 2012 15:10:55 GMT -5
Be a star, or else.
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Post by Cyno on Jan 4, 2012 15:11:20 GMT -5
You know what I really miss? When fighting used to be civilized. It used to be, at least at my high school, that person A had a problem with person B, and person A challenged person B to a fight. Persons A and B met after school, fought, and that was the end of that. Now people bring cronies in, there are sucker-punches thrown, people won't hesitate to retaliate after the fight is over, and weapons have been introduced. Whatever happened to settling things with fists like it used to be? Know what'd be even more awesome? If people didn't feel the need to fight each other. Or didn't feel the need to torment someone with threats and physical violence until the other person snaps. This wasn't Person A and Person B having mutual beef with each other. This is Person A continuing to harass and torment Person B who clearly wanted nothing to do with him.
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The Ichi
Patti Mayonnaise
AGGRESSIVE Executive Janitor of the Third Floor Manager's Bathroom
Posts: 37,282
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Post by The Ichi on Jan 4, 2012 15:14:28 GMT -5
You know what I really miss? When fighting used to be civilized. It used to be, at least at my high school, that person A had a problem with person B, and person A challenged person B to a fight. Persons A and B met after school, fought, and that was the end of that. ...Maybe I just went to the wrong schools, but it was never like that.
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Post by YAKMAN is ICHIBAN on Jan 4, 2012 15:16:38 GMT -5
Look, I'm not one for bullying. I have absolutely no problem with fighting back and defending yourself. However, to brandish a weapon and murder someone in cold blood is taking this to unwanted extremes. Like someone previously said, this won't be the end of bullying in the United States or abroad, because if the Columbine massacre didn't altogether stop bullying, nothing will. However, this is just unsettling, that a person could get away with what was essentially First-Degree Murder, because he was the victim of bullying. This situation is the opposite of cold blooded murder. This would be hot blooded self defense.
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Post by YAKMAN is ICHIBAN on Jan 4, 2012 15:17:44 GMT -5
You know what I really miss? When fighting used to be civilized. It used to be, at least at my high school, that person A had a problem with person B, and person A challenged person B to a fight. Persons A and B met after school, fought, and that was the end of that. ...Maybe I just went to the wrong schools, but it was never like that. Yeah, anywhere I've been its usually one head bully with several cronies. Once, they were even in their lacrosse gear with their sticks, 4 of them harassing one guy.
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Bub (BLM)
Patti Mayonnaise
advocates duck on rodent violence
Fed. Up.
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Post by Bub (BLM) on Jan 4, 2012 15:21:44 GMT -5
I obviously don't condone killing, but at the same time, I don't judge the kid who did it. I was a victim of bullying when I was a kid, and after a while, you get sick of living in fear of being beat up by people you never even did anything to. The bully brought this on himself by making this poor kid his target. Let this be a lesson - violence just brings more violence, and if you bully the wrong kid, you may end up dead. Just leave people alone and live your damn life.
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Post by Red Impact on Jan 4, 2012 15:24:43 GMT -5
If you think it's all about bullying, you miss the point. This wasn't a kid who snapped, he was being attacked at that moment, he was outnumbered and the kids were older than him. What makes it questionable is the fact that he had a knife, but I think it's ridiculous if anyone is insinuating that you don't have the right to defend yourself when you're being attacked. And once you have the right to defend yourself, you can't expect people to be completely mechanical and measure exactly how much for they need. You're being powered by adrenaline at that point. When you take out all the other factors, he was being attacked, he had a weapon, and he used it on the people who were attacking him. The context gives us a more complete view on the two, but under the letter of the law, the kid did have a right to protect himself as he did. The law is sketchy. You have to remember that laws are arbitrary. Stop talking about laws as if they are commandments from a god or something. They change all the time. No where did I indicate or imply that I think the law is infallible and perfect, but I do think the way it was applied here is correct in terms of the spirit of it. And no, I'm not going to stop talking about it just because random internet person thinks it's wrong. I get it, you disagree. Noted. That doesn't change my opinion on it. This isn't the first Stand Your Ground case I've ever seen, I used to be a crime reporter, these cases cropped up. And despite your constant insistence that all laws are arbitrary, every time I saw it, it was applied pretty consistently. I think I have more than enough experience being able to call it as I see it. Does that mean every case ever it will be the same? Of course not, but that doesn't mean I don't have cause to state what I feel is the spirit of the law based on my experiences. You don't have to agree, but I'm not going to stop giving my opinion on the law and how it's applied just because you want to harp on how arbitrary you think everything is. What you think doesn't affect my opinion. I have nothing against defending one's self, but this is no situation in which stabbing someone 12 times is deemed a reasonable means to defending yourself. This sets an AWFUL precedent in our country, essentially telling people, "It's open season on bullies. It's okay, go ahead and kill someone. Provided they were bullying you, our hands are tied." Look, I'm not one for bullying. I have absolutely no problem with fighting back and defending yourself. However, to brandish a weapon and murder someone in cold blood is taking this to unwanted extremes. Like someone previously said, this won't be the end of bullying in the United States or abroad, because if the Columbine massacre didn't altogether stop bullying, nothing will. However, this is just unsettling, that a person could get away with what was essentially First-Degree Murder, because he was the victim of bullying. Did you actually read the story? This wasn't a case of the kid snapping and charging into the school stabbing the bully, he was being attacked at the time, 3 on 1 by older kids. He didn't pick the fight, he tried to avoid it. This is in no way setting a precedent that you get to kill anyone making fun of you. And people are too hung up on the number of times he stabbed the attacker. That's not really that relevant, what matters is the time between the attacks. There was a highly publicized case here. A man coerced two kids to try to rob a pharmacy. The kids put on masks, got guns, and charged in, waving their guns and screaming. The pharmacist shot one of them and tried to chase the other one. The one he shot didn't die, and he didn't catch the other, but when he came back and saw the other one on the ground, unconscious, he walked to the back, grabbed another gun, came back, and fired several more shots into him, killing him. He was convicted of murder, not for the first shot, but for the others (forensics showed the robber was alive after the first shot). The time in between shootings, and the fact that he turned his back to the robber to get another gun, provided evidence that he no longer felt he was immediately threatened, according to the prosecutors. About this time, there was another case where a robber broke into a guy's house, but his victim was home. The robber charged and the guy shot him several times, killing him right then. He wasn't charged for the same reason the pharmacist was, he felt he was reasonably threatened. That's the standard I think people need to look at in this case. The fact that he stabbed him 12 times only really matters if there was a lot of time between them. But you can stab someone 12 times in the spur of the moment as easily as you can stab them once. You're still in fight or flight mode at that moment.
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Mac
Bill S. Preston, Esq.
Sigs/Avatars cannot exceed 1MB
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Post by Mac on Jan 4, 2012 15:34:53 GMT -5
Bullying is bad, murder is worse. You don't resolve a situation by commiting an act thats worse. And that is an AWFUL precident to set. Maybe Jorge would have gotten his ass kicked and that would have been terrible, but nobody would be dead.
I understand self defense and I understand when someone is phsyically harming you you generally will do whatever possible to stop the situation. But by introducing a weapon and using it with the intent to kill Jorge made the situation worse and someone is dead because of it.
It's more of a situation of whether it was premeditated murder or manslaughter in the heat of the moment. This kid getting off for killing someone is ridiculous.
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Post by Mr. Emoticon Man, TF Fan on Jan 4, 2012 15:39:05 GMT -5
Man... what a bad situation all the way around.
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