BigWill
Bill S. Preston, Esq.
Posts: 16,619
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Post by BigWill on Oct 28, 2013 22:57:50 GMT -5
If you lose 10 dollars, but then win back 5, you're still down money. If you started with nothing, you'd still be up though. Granted all this depends on how they use him going forward but to me, that is the position Sandow is in. He went in with nothing, went up a lot, took a hit but still walked out with more than he had. WWE can easily f*** it all up but they can just as easily build on this a lot more than they could by giving him the title. He didn't start with nothing though. He started with winning the MITB briefcase.
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Sparkybob
King Koopa
I have a status?
Posts: 11,003
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Post by Sparkybob on Oct 28, 2013 23:02:02 GMT -5
Probably, but it's still a logical character progression. A man blew an easy shot to reach his dreams, he becomes angry and decided to f*** up other people. That's lazy. When you do it with multiple characters, all heel, that's pure laziness. There will always be overlap in terms of some traits between characters. If I'm your reading your response correctly you want every character to have a unique self with no overlap with another wrestler at all?
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Oct 28, 2013 23:02:17 GMT -5
I think the divide in opinion comes down to how much you care about an even scant attempt at realism, and how much you value the "he can't use his arm" stuff. I know wrestling's wacky and silly, but I think it works best when it keeps things at least somewhat plausible when it involves "real guy" type characters like John Cena and Damien Sandow, and find it irritating that injuries don't mean a damn thing anymore. In wrestling, injuries are a story-telling device, so for them to always end up meaningless in the grand scheme takes away the effectiveness of that device.
Steve Austin put Brian PIllman's ankle in a chair and stomped it. Pillman was out for months and tried to SHOOT Austin over it. Guns in wrestling is too much admittedly, but still.
Randy Orton put The Miz's neck in a chair and dropped a knee on it. Miz was out for a week, and tried (and failed) to beat up Randy in a wrestling match.
That's how much shit has changed. They really need to make things mean more instead of using all these story-telling devices as filler to get through the week.
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Post by JTG Fan on Oct 28, 2013 23:03:30 GMT -5
I am tired of the 'looking good in defeat' justification some internet fans use. Cena, Orton, Triple H, and all of those 'tippy top guys' didn't get over by losing. Looking good in defeat may mean something to the agents in the back, but not to the fans.
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Post by Mighty Attack Tribble on Oct 28, 2013 23:04:09 GMT -5
Sandow took on an injured opponent, targeted the injured arm with several weapons for a full five minutes before the match, hit both his finishers, and lost cleanly. To the average fan in the audience, that makes him a chump.
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Post by Been burned too many times on Oct 28, 2013 23:04:41 GMT -5
Sandow was put over, not as a BIG TIME MAIN EVENTER!
But he was put over as someone who could potentially be a threat in the future. Sandow's a low/mid carder of course he lost to Cena(one armed Cena yeah) but he still looked like a threat especially during that beatdown before the match.
Sandow wasn't 'ready' for the WHC briefcase or that title imo, I do think he'd make a good midcard champion if he actually got booked to do something with it.
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Post by Magic knows Black Lives Matter on Oct 28, 2013 23:09:21 GMT -5
That's lazy. When you do it with multiple characters, all heel, that's pure laziness. There will always be overlap in terms of some traits between characters. If I'm your reading your response correctly you want every character to have a unique self with no overlap with another wrestler at all? My problem is that WWE does that "HE'S MORE AGGRESSIVE THAN HE'S EVER BEEN" shit with heels all the time. They book a heel like shit for weeks than when they decide that they want him to be something, they pull out the "AGGRESSIVE" card. Rinse cycle repeat. That's pure laziness. Wouldn't it make more sense to just be consistent in how you book someone instead of making them look like trash while screaming about how "AGGRESSIVE" they are and wondering why nobody takes them seriously?
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Post by MichaelMartini on Oct 28, 2013 23:09:36 GMT -5
It TOTALLY buried Sandow. Are you kidding me? It's already been said that it's ridiculous for a wrestler to lose to a one armed, one legged man but no one's mentioned how it hurts his character too. His gimmick is that he's smart. And he's a heel. Was that the best time for him to have chashed in, in that way?
It made Cena look ridiculous too. Way too over the top.
Why not let Sandow win, get him some heat, and a bit of credibility and have Cena take it back in a rematch? Wouldn't that help everyone?
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Post by Mighty Attack Tribble on Oct 28, 2013 23:09:57 GMT -5
Sandow was put over, not as a BIG TIME MAIN EVENTER! But he was put over as someone who could potentially be a threat in the future. Sandow's a low/mid carder of course he lost to Cena(one armed Cena yeah) but he still looked like a threat especially during that beatdown before the match. Sandow wasn't 'ready' for the WHC briefcase or that title imo, I do think he'd make a good midcard champion if he actually got booked to do something with it. In which case, why book him to win the briefcase in the first place? Is there really nobody else on the roster who could have benefited from it?
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Post by Been burned too many times on Oct 28, 2013 23:11:06 GMT -5
Sandow was put over, not as a BIG TIME MAIN EVENTER! But he was put over as someone who could potentially be a threat in the future. Sandow's a low/mid carder of course he lost to Cena(one armed Cena yeah) but he still looked like a threat especially during that beatdown before the match. Sandow wasn't 'ready' for the WHC briefcase or that title imo, I do think he'd make a good midcard champion if he actually got booked to do something with it. In which case, why book him to win the briefcase in the first place? Is there really nobody else on the roster who could have benefited from it? I don't think he should have won it either, I was pulling for Cody back then. I'm just saying.
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Post by JTG Fan on Oct 28, 2013 23:39:50 GMT -5
MITB is supposed to elevate and create stars. Here, they used it to feed Cena a guy so that we remember that after 8+ years of being the absolute top guy in WWE that Cena is still super tough and brave.
I like Cena, I get the booking in theory, but it just f***ing sucks if you like Sandow (like I do) and/or want to see new fresh faces in the main event scene (like I do).
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Post by CATCH_US IS the Conversation on Oct 28, 2013 23:45:52 GMT -5
I am tired of the 'looking good in defeat' justification some internet fans use. Cena, Orton, Triple H, and all of those 'tippy top guys' didn't get over by losing. Looking good in defeat may mean something to the agents in the back, but not to the fans.
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Post by Magic knows Black Lives Matter on Oct 28, 2013 23:47:30 GMT -5
I am tired of the 'looking good in defeat' justification some internet fans use. Cena, Orton, Triple H, and all of those 'tippy top guys' didn't get over by losing. Looking good in defeat may mean something to the agents in the back, but not to the fans. But that didn't make Cena the star he was. It was a good start sure but from there, he floundered until he found his calling with the "Word Life" gimmick. It's very possible for someone to look good in defeat and get over but it's kind of a lost art in WWE.
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Post by CATCH_US IS the Conversation on Oct 28, 2013 23:51:19 GMT -5
But that didn't make Cena the star he was. It was a good start sure but from there, he floundered until he found his calling with the "Word Life" gimmick. It's very possible for someone to look good in defeat and get over but it's kind of a lost art in WWE. And with the Word Life gimmick, Cena was pretty much just a notch above Heath Slater. He wasn't really taken seriously until he turned face, so until that point, he lost a LOT.
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Post by Loser troll. Please ban me on Oct 28, 2013 23:52:06 GMT -5
Cena won?
excuse me, I'm about to make a mint selling this Cinderella story to the associated press.
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Post by JTG Fan on Oct 28, 2013 23:53:17 GMT -5
But that didn't make Cena the star he was. It was a good start sure but from there, he floundered until he found his calling with the "Word Life" gimmick. It's very possible for someone to look good in defeat and get over but it's kind of a lost art in WWE. And with the Word Life gimmick, Cena was pretty much just a notch above Heath Slater. He wasn't really taken seriously until he turned face, so until that point, he pretty much lost a LOT. Bullshit. Cena was an incredibly hot heel in 03 that was having major matches with Undertaker and Eddie. You are right about one thing though, when he was a face and started winning all the time, that was when he got most over.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
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Post by Deleted on Oct 28, 2013 23:53:43 GMT -5
For the most part, Sandow couldn't beat a one-armed Cena.
Sandow wasn't exactly on a rocket ship to the moon before this either.
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saintpat
El Dandy
Release the hounds!!!
Posts: 7,664
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Post by saintpat on Oct 28, 2013 23:54:55 GMT -5
I thought he looked great.
He didn't lose to a man with one good arm. He lost to Cena with one good arm, and looked amazing in doing it.
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Post by Magic knows Black Lives Matter on Oct 28, 2013 23:55:23 GMT -5
But that didn't make Cena the star he was. It was a good start sure but from there, he floundered until he found his calling with the "Word Life" gimmick. It's very possible for someone to look good in defeat and get over but it's kind of a lost art in WWE. And with the Word Life gimmick, Cena was pretty much just a notch above Heath Slater. He wasn't really taken seriously until he turned face, so until that point, he lost a LOT. You just proved JTG Fan's point. Cena didn't start to become the man until he WON MATCHES AGAINST BIG STARS. As I said, it's very possible for a guy to get over from a loss and look good in defeat. If a guy is gonna break through that glass ceiling, however, he's got to rack up some big wins. Also, my memory is a bit fuzzy but I'm inclined to call bullshit on Cena being a notch above Heath Slater. Wasn't he having PPV matches with Brock Lesnar and Undertaker at that point and time? He wasn't a main eventer but he wasn't just some lower-card goon.
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Post by The Masked Heel WAS WRONG on Oct 28, 2013 23:55:59 GMT -5
If he can beat Brock Lesnar last year like that, then Sandow should be no problem.
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