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Post by Deleted on Oct 29, 2013 2:24:10 GMT -5
I didn't watch Raw, so I don't know what happened, but if he literally did beat down Cena's injured arm for several minutes, then for Cena to still somehow win despite not using one arm...that's weird. That's not even underselling Sandow as much as it's overselling Cena. I mean does he really need THAT at this level? Like...I mean, is this the way you want to convince people that Sandow had a shot against him? It almost makes me glad they have a blood policy, because I could outright see them sell the idea of Cena losing like a quarter of the blood in his body and still having the "fighting spirit" to carry on. I mean this is the company that at one point said Cena refused medical attention for a ruptured spleen and was "run over" by JBL. Why not a cheap CGI effect where Cena is missing his head? Surely someone could beat a headless Cena!! That's pretty much how the commentary played it up. They basically didn't even draw attention to anything Sandow did or that he failed or anything like that, they just went on and on and on about how amazing Cena is and how he's superhuman and all that.
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Post by Raskovnik on Oct 29, 2013 2:45:42 GMT -5
Snadow the Hedgehog
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nate5054
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Post by nate5054 on Oct 29, 2013 5:30:03 GMT -5
Sandow took on an injured opponent, targeted the injured arm with several weapons for a full five minutes before the match, hit both his finishers, and lost cleanly. To the average fan in the audience, that makes him a chump. Absolutely. It's extremely sad to see.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 29, 2013 8:47:13 GMT -5
If you have to tell people a wrestler was put over and explain why they were put over, they weren't put over.
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Post by Brother Nero....Wolfe on Oct 29, 2013 8:51:35 GMT -5
Match was fun, but at the end of the day Sandow failed to defeat someone literally only using one arm.
Well, if being able to be on even footing with a literally one-armed Cena makes him strong kayfabe wise, then that means the rest of the roster must be so far below...
...actually yeah, that sounds about right. But that kiiind of sucks too.
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Toates Madhackrviper
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Post by Toates Madhackrviper on Oct 29, 2013 8:54:55 GMT -5
I'm conflicted about this.
I loved the match itself. It was cool to see Cena sell and I thought it was some of the best work I've seen Cena do honestly.
And I was certainly emotionally invested. I was rooting for SANDOW and yelling "AW COME ON" at the TV every time CENA kicked out, but I was into it.
And I agree Sandow came out as a major star. Honestly I felt he had major presence in that whole segment. And while I've always liked him, this was the first time that I felt he expressed real star power. Seems like taking off the robe was a good idea even if it muted his character. I guess muting your character really is part of rising up the card :/ .
Even just him standing across from Cena and facing off with him and everything he just... seemed like a wrestling star to me. His mic work was on point, his ring work was fantastic. Everything worked with him.
If this had been a regular match I'd agree, but with the whole MITB thing its hard because it really seems to take some major wind of out of his sails that he cashed in after being the hell out of Cena's arm and then LOST anyway... I think it will depend on how the whole thing is sold in the aftermath. If Sandow is sold as being a star who elevated himself then great but if he drops right back to the midcard like nothing happened then yeah, I'm bitter about that.
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Sparkybob
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Post by Sparkybob on Oct 29, 2013 8:55:37 GMT -5
Match was fun, but at the end of the day Sandow failed to defeat someone literally only using one arm. Well, if being able to be on even footing with a literally one-armed Cena makes him strong kayfabe wise, then that means the rest of the roster must be so far below... ...actually yeah, that sounds about right. But that kiiind of sucks too. That should just be Cena's new gimmick. He realizes that he is so much better than his opponents that he has to handicap himself in order to provide an actual challenge. One week we get Cena with his legs tied together, Cena blindfolded, Cena choosing to use only the moves in Zack Ryder's moveset etc. Of course he does this all while still being a face proclaiming that this is the only way he can actual get the crowd to invest in his world title matches.
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welshjobber
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Post by welshjobber on Oct 29, 2013 8:56:16 GMT -5
How can he look good by losing to a guy who has been injured for 2 months, and has just had said injury repeatedly hit with a steel chair.
It's all about the message that comes across, and I get "Cena overcomes the odds to win" rather than "Sandow pushes Cena all the way", the latter makes it sound like it was an even contest to start, Cena had one arm.
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Post by Brother Nero....Wolfe on Oct 29, 2013 9:00:42 GMT -5
Match was fun, but at the end of the day Sandow failed to defeat someone literally only using one arm. Well, if being able to be on even footing with a literally one-armed Cena makes him strong kayfabe wise, then that means the rest of the roster must be so far below... ...actually yeah, that sounds about right. But that kiiind of sucks too. That should just be Cena's new gimmick. He realizes that he is so much better than his opponents that he has to handicap himself in order to provide an actual challenge. One week we get Cena with his legs tied together, Cena blindfolded, Cena choosing to use only the moves in Zack Ryder's moveset etc. Of course he does this all while still being a face proclaiming that this is the only way he can actual get the crowd to invest in his world title matches. I seriously and unironically want to see that. Then Cena goes full Goku and he proclaims he's doing everything for the sake of finding a strong opponent.
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Toates Madhackrviper
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Post by Toates Madhackrviper on Oct 29, 2013 9:02:35 GMT -5
In summary ...
Sandow came off like a star in the segment, and Cena sold for him pretty well and everything but Sandow still is the first man to lose an opportunistic MITB cash in. He lost to an effectively one armed man after beating the hell out of that arm before the match for five damn minutes.
Had it been basically the exact same match but a regular match with no beatdown and/or cash in Cena would have been putting Sandow over in defeat for sure. But under the circumstances its hard to see it that way and I think he had to win because of the beatdown and cash in elements. Like someone else said even SuperCena has limbs.
But I also think they can still potentially sell it that way with the aftermath. You can sell almost anything in wrestling with effective use of commentary and how the wrestlers themselves act in the aftermath.
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Post by Kevin Hamilton on Oct 29, 2013 9:08:45 GMT -5
Thats the thing too, the story was absolutely "Cena is so resilient, he's superhuman, look at how tough this man is."
Not once, post match, did the commentators talk about Sandow taking Cena to the limit etc; the entire narrative was about Cena overcoming his injuries. Sandow coulda been anyone. He was a plot device to emphasize Cena's toughness.
That doesn't put Sandow over, when the match and aftermath wouldve been exactly the same with anyone, e.g. Del Rio.
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welshjobber
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Post by welshjobber on Oct 29, 2013 9:09:41 GMT -5
Not to mention the image of Sandow standing on the stage in the closing segment, applauding Orton.
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Post by highfivessteve on Oct 29, 2013 9:18:59 GMT -5
I enjoyed the heck out of it.
The attack caught me off guard, and I was on the edge of my seat practically the entire time. I know people will balk at the whole "Sandow couldn't even lose by count-out" but I think that was more of a testament of the Cena character wanting to do things the right away.
It was hard to call the ending a) Sandow wins b) Cena wins c) Doctor stoppage
I originally thought afterwards to maybe have a one-armed Cena get a quick roll up and "narrowly escape" but I'm totally fine with the match. Crowd was into it and Sandow looked smart and on the same level as Cena.
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Post by ________ has left the building on Oct 29, 2013 9:33:33 GMT -5
Puerto RIcan bullfighters is a COMPLETELY new gimmick. I don't know if you're being serious but they turned Tito Santana into El Matador and it pretty much killed his career. That was 20 years ago. Tito Santana was already in the downside of his career before he became a matador. If anything it bought he a couple of extra months.
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Post by ________ has left the building on Oct 29, 2013 9:38:04 GMT -5
The match was a Catch 22. If Sandow won, he would had beaten an injured Cena and not been on the same level as him. Sandow loses, he couldn't beat an injured Cena. I'm just happy he didn't win and follow the path of a majority of MITB winners.
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Post by MichaelMartini on Oct 29, 2013 10:51:45 GMT -5
I don't know if you're being serious but they turned Tito Santana into El Matador and it pretty much killed his career. That was 20 years ago. Tito Santana was already in the downside of his career before he became a matador. If anything it bought he a couple of extra months. Not really. In 91, he was in the main event of Summerslam with Hogan and Warrior. In that same year, they turned him into El Matador and was gone by 93. There was even talk of making him the face of the company after the steroid trials because they wanted to expand into Mexico but they went with Bret and a Canadian expansion instead. Either way, the Matador gimmick wasn't over and neither is this one. The lame El Torito comedy bits have been some of the lamest, most dated, carny humor they've ever done.
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Post by ________ has left the building on Oct 29, 2013 11:06:26 GMT -5
Tito Santana was already in the downside of his career before he became a matador. If anything it bought he a couple of extra months. Not really. In 91, he was in the main event of Summerslam with Hogan and Warrior. In that same year, they turned him into El Matador and was gone by 93. There was even talk of making him the face of the company after the steroid trials because they wanted to expand into Mexico but they went with Bret and a Canadian expansion instead. Either way, the Matador gimmick wasn't over and neither is this one. The lame El Torito comedy bits have been some of the lamest, most dated, carny humor they've ever done. Tito was not in the main event of Summerslam 91. He wasn't even on the card. Tito wasn't going to be the face of WWF. He may had the technical skills and crowd support but he lacked the mic skill and personality to make the champion of the company. That's the reason why when Hogan and WWF decided to make someone the new face of the company when he took a leave of absence, they choose Macho Man. Bret got chosen because his age, reliability, and fan connection. And even then, they were grooming HBK to take over eventually.
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mizerable
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Post by mizerable on Oct 29, 2013 11:17:11 GMT -5
I think that was more of a testament of the Cena character wanting to do things the right away. This is hilarious to read considering the circumstances. -Sneak attack unsuspecting wrestler -attack recently injured arm -impromptu match for title that he just won -"Nah, I can't win by count out...that wouldn't be fair to him." It would make a LOT more sense that Cena was pissed off about the sneak attack and wanted to punish Sandow in a more humiliating fashion. But of course, we can't have that narrative. We need humble, polite Cena.
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Post by JTG Fan on Oct 29, 2013 11:56:19 GMT -5
As was pointed out earlier in this thread, when Sandow went 15-20 minutes with Sheamus on RAW in September 2012 everybody, including JBL, was saying "Sandow has arrived" and all the same stuff people are saying now after that match with Cena. Well guess what, he didn't get dick to do after that match and he probably won't now either.
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Tha Don
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Post by Tha Don on Oct 29, 2013 12:25:31 GMT -5
I'm guessing people are forgetting that Cena is injured so not 100% yet he was able to beat Sandow, which just makes Sandow weak. Especially for what Sandow did to Cena before the match.
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