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Post by Confused Mark Wahlberg on Jan 4, 2015 15:26:35 GMT -5
I found Walter White to be a despicable douche even in the beginning of the show when we were supposed to be rooting for him.
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Post by James Fabiano on Jan 4, 2015 16:09:07 GMT -5
That Charlie Brown special where Lucy keeps pulling the ball away from him during an actual football game, and everyone blames Charlie Brown for missing the kicks even though it is clearly Lucy's fault. Which led to the one time a Peanuts special had to be subject to censorship. Charles Schulz agreed with you, which is why a lot of the complaints about CB have been edited out of every version of that special since. How about Twas the Night Before Christmas? We are all supposed to be mad at Albert for writing the letter that got Santa mad, but on the other hand, are the other mice correct for attempting to silence his opinion? Not really a perfect example, but the way everyone mocks Usagi, including when they plan when she is not around. Yeah she is a clumsy crybaby, but it does get old to hear Luna, Rei, and the others' cracks about her. Usagi/Sailor Moon is funny, but I am now waiting for the eps. when she matures and proves them wrong.
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Post by The Shareholder is nude on Jan 4, 2015 17:06:16 GMT -5
Evangelion....how the !$@^@ am I supposed to feel ANY sympathy for Shinji when he is a whiny selfish complaining little jerk who is all "oh everyone hates me" "oh i am so useless I will just let third impact happen and let billions die because i have daddy issues" GET IN THE @$!^@&@ MECH SHINJI!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! See, I'd do this one the other way round. Shinji gets way too much flak from fandom. He's a 15 year old kid who has had a pretty horrible life, and over the course of the series he essentially gets PTSD, is forced to watch his friend be crippled by his own mech thanks to his utter arse of a father, and the one person who he really clicks with and is treated well by turns out to be an angel and he has to kill him himself for the sake of humanity. Despite that, he manages to make it through instrumentality and gain some degree of self-actualisation in the process. He does some shitty things along the way - particularly towards Asuka - but that's because he's meant to be a flawed character. But does he get grief for this, or the fact that he's not a catchphrase spewing action hero with a personality more two-dimensional than a damp tissue? It's the latter. Yeah I can see BUT Shinji's reasoning is totally just so beyond pathetic. He KNOWS what he has to do, but he complains and whines because he feels unloved DESPITE the fact he IS loved! AAARRGGHHHHH!!!!!!!
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Goldenbane
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THE G.D. Goldenbane
Posts: 7,331
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Post by Goldenbane on Jan 4, 2015 18:51:37 GMT -5
That Charlie Brown special where Lucy keeps pulling the ball away from him during an actual football game, and everyone blames Charlie Brown for missing the kicks even though it is clearly Lucy's fault. Which led to the one time a Peanuts special had to be subject to censorship. Charles Schulz agreed with you, which is why a lot of the complaints about CB have been edited out of every version of that special since. How about Twas the Night Before Christmas? We are all supposed to be mad at Albert for writing the letter that got Santa mad, but on the other hand, are the other mice correct for attempting to silence his opinion? Not really a perfect example, but the way everyone mocks Usagi, including when they plan when she is not around. Yeah she is a clumsy crybaby, but it does get old to hear Luna, Rei, and the others' cracks about her. Usagi/Sailor Moon is funny, but I am now waiting for the eps. when she matures and proves them wrong. I think Albert's family was trying to keep him quiet because, quite frankly, his and his friend's "opinion" was dead wrong. Santa DID exist and did everything attributed to him in that universe. There wasn't any debate on this, except on Albert's part. Santa was fact the whole time. He wasn't ambiguous or anything like that. The other characters had discussed his reactions through the whole special. It's like if I ranted to you that you weren't drinking tea out of a glass when you are drinking tea out of a glass RIGHT IN FRONT OF ME. Yes, eventually you're going to tell me to shut the f*** up and that I'm wrong. There's no "I have a right to my opinion" you drinking tea out of a glass is FACT and I'm outright wrong and being a total idiot. That's what Albert was doing, IMO.
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Post by Hit Girl on Jan 4, 2015 19:06:01 GMT -5
Padme in Star Wars.
Her moral values and judgement are extremely questionable. She's certainly not someone who I regard as the tragic figure Lucas apparently thought she should be.
In fact, the Jedi in the prequels are morally suspect.
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Post by Beets by Schrute on Jan 4, 2015 19:15:45 GMT -5
Another one to add to the Game of Thrones list is Theon Greyjoy. If you want me to feel bad for someone getting brutally tortured, don't pick someone who not only betrayed a friend that was considered a brother, but also killed two kids!!!
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The Ichi
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Posts: 37,281
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Post by The Ichi on Jan 4, 2015 19:15:54 GMT -5
I found Walter White to be a despicable douche even in the beginning of the show when we were supposed to be rooting for him. I often found the reactions to him blowing up that guys car in season one odd. I mean, the guy was a loudmouth jerk, but you don't f***ing destroy his property.
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Reflecto
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Post by Reflecto on Jan 4, 2015 19:49:42 GMT -5
Jaime Lannister pretty much embodies this. "Oh no! I've lost my hand! Everybody feel sorry for me now! Besides, I'm telling you that I'm a misunderstood hero and if I say it then it MUST be true!" Well, that sure makes up for f***ing your sister next door to her husband, thus endangering your entire family, attempting to murder a child in order to cover up said sister-f***ing, killing people left and right for your own gain. Oh but you killed the Mad King? Too bad you spent years protecting him beforehand, therefore allowing him to keep killing anyone who opposed him, including people who had been trying to kill him before you did, and isn't it convenient how your change of heart came just as it became obvious that you'd get killed if you had to face his enemies? Oh and I almost forgot that the aforementioned sister-f***ing led to Joffrey's birth, making you directly responsible for yet more massacres. And on that subject, nice job heroically raping your sister in front of her and your child's corpse. But hey, he lost a hand and tells people they should love him, so truly he is a hero. Man, f*** this guy; even by Westeros standards he's scum and the fact that Brienne of all people ends up going all doe-eyed about him is one of the things that seriously piss me off about Game of Thrones (and yes, I do realize he saved her life so I could see her being more forgiving of him, but there's a difference between that and her doing a complete 180 and immediately buying his "admire me because I tell you to" BS). On the opposite side in GoT, we've got Ser Jorah Mormont, who faithfully served Daeny without hesitation, protected her and constantly gave her good advice. Then he gets kicked to the curb for spying on her before, and no one stands up for him. No one even questions the authenticity of the letter that ends up getting recovered. They're just immediately all "Jorah did it!" and that's it, he's an exile. Meanwhile Dario, who was earlier hired to kill Targaryen, almost slits Daeny's handmaiden's throat and threatens to do so if not immediately given an opportunity to join the team. But because he's a "Dashing rogue" character, everyone gives him a free pass and Jorah is the only person who is even a tiny bit suspicious despite the fact that the guy reeks of bad intentions and no one has any reason to trust him. I don't think the Jorah betrayal thing is so glaringly bad in and of itself, but when coupled with Dario getting the exact opposite treatment, is just tremendously bad writing in an otherwise good story. Well, being fair on Ser Jorah- even the "spying" thing wasn't blatant. It was clear Ser Jorah's punishment and exile was more the writing twist of the "We're CLAIMING he's getting punished for THIS...but yeah, he's ACTUALLY getting punished FOR THIS and you should be aware of that fact" (namely: They can claim he's kicked to the curb for spying on her, but yeah- he's really getting punished for becoming a 'nice guy' after Daeny rejected him and you're supposed to inherently know that.) {Spoiler}{Spoiler}As far as Jamie, you do have to give some credence against it that- in Brienne's death/betrayal, she got called out for all of Jamie's bullshit and her taking his side, so it's not like everyone believes the story Jamie said.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jan 4, 2015 21:18:14 GMT -5
On the opposite side in GoT, we've got Ser Jorah Mormont, who faithfully served Daeny without hesitation, protected her and constantly gave her good advice. Then he gets kicked to the curb for spying on her before, and no one stands up for him. No one even questions the authenticity of the letter that ends up getting recovered. They're just immediately all "Jorah did it!" and that's it, he's an exile. Meanwhile Dario, who was earlier hired to kill Targaryen, almost slits Daeny's handmaiden's throat and threatens to do so if not immediately given an opportunity to join the team. But because he's a "Dashing rogue" character, everyone gives him a free pass and Jorah is the only person who is even a tiny bit suspicious despite the fact that the guy reeks of bad intentions and no one has any reason to trust him. I don't think the Jorah betrayal thing is so glaringly bad in and of itself, but when coupled with Dario getting the exact opposite treatment, is just tremendously bad writing in an otherwise good story. Well, being fair on Ser Jorah- even the "spying" thing wasn't blatant. It was clear Ser Jorah's punishment and exile was more the writing twist of the "We're CLAIMING he's getting punished for THIS...but yeah, he's ACTUALLY getting punished FOR THIS and you should be aware of that fact" (namely: They can claim he's kicked to the curb for spying on her, but yeah- he's really getting punished for becoming a 'nice guy' after Daeny rejected him and you're supposed to inherently know that.) {Spoiler}{Spoiler}{Spoiler}As far as Jamie, you do have to give some credence against it that- in Brienne's death/betrayal, she got called out for all of Jamie's bullshit and her taking his side, so it's not like everyone believes the story Jamie said. Maybe it's better explained in the books? I only watch the show, in which Jorah was treated explicitly as a spy. But I don't think it matters why she did it. Nobody doing anything is awfully hard for me to believe.
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Post by Hit Girl on Jan 4, 2015 22:03:08 GMT -5
Quint in JAWS
He's far from the loveable eccentric that pop culture paints him as
He's actually very dangerous in this film, and is little help to the efforts to kill JAWS. He actually hinders the mission considerably and puts Hooper and Brody at mortal risk.
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Mozenrath
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Post by Mozenrath on Jan 5, 2015 0:03:37 GMT -5
Quint in JAWS He's far from the loveable eccentric that pop culture paints him as He's actually very dangerous in this film, and is little help to the efforts to kill JAWS. He actually hinders the mission considerably and puts Hooper and Brody at mortal risk. Yeah, he kind of sucked at his job.
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Post by JTG Fan on Jan 5, 2015 0:07:41 GMT -5
Nobody should think Michael Douglas' character in Falling Down is a hero or good guy.
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adamclark52
El Dandy
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Post by adamclark52 on Jan 5, 2015 0:08:25 GMT -5
This is probably just me but after grinding the entirity of the Walking Dead last month I really felt bad for the Governer, Except when he hacked Herschels head off.
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Post by Hit Girl on Jan 5, 2015 0:19:53 GMT -5
Paulie in the Rocky movies
He mistreats his sister, is completely ungrateful, insults Apollo, is a freeloader, and cost Rocky all his money.
Yet they allowed this sack of shit to move into their mansion.
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Post by Alexander The So-so on Jan 5, 2015 0:26:16 GMT -5
Evangelion....how the !$@^@ am I supposed to feel ANY sympathy for Shinji when he is a whiny selfish complaining little jerk who is all "oh everyone hates me" "oh i am so useless I will just let third impact happen and let billions die because i have daddy issues" GET IN THE @$!^@&@ MECH SHINJI!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! See, I'd do this one the other way round. Shinji gets way too much flak from fandom. He's a 15 year old kid who has had a pretty horrible life, and over the course of the series he essentially gets PTSD, is forced to watch his friend be crippled by his own mech thanks to his utter arse of a father, and the one person who he really clicks with and is treated well by turns out to be an angel and he has to kill him himself for the sake of humanity. Despite that, he manages to make it through instrumentality and gain some degree of self-actualisation in the process. He does some shitty things along the way - particularly towards Asuka - but that's because he's meant to be a flawed character. But does he get grief for this, or the fact that he's not a catchphrase spewing action hero with a personality more two-dimensional than a damp tissue? It's the latter. Took the words right out of my mouth. Being a fan of Eva has always been a somewhat dissonant thing to me. Shinji was my favorite character in the series, and I empathized with him so much. I just wanted to reach in and give that poor kid a hug. Then I start talking with anime fans, who all talk shit about them and say that he's such an annoying, whiny bitch. I was stunned when I first experienced this, and even though I've mostly gotten used to it, it still bothers me a little.
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bob
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Post by bob on Jan 5, 2015 0:39:31 GMT -5
some how Sid is the bad guy for eliminating Hogan in the 1992 Royal Rumble
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Post by RadcapRadsley on Jan 5, 2015 0:52:48 GMT -5
My 2 favorite modern examples are Walter White on Breaking Bad and Don Draper on Mad Men. These guys do beyond unredeemable things and then the audience takes their side even when they are in the wrong.The Showrunners themselves are clearly showing them for the scumbags they are it's not like they are trying to make them anti hero's people just beyond reason treat them that way.
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Post by Hit Girl on Jan 5, 2015 1:06:20 GMT -5
Admiral Nechayev in Star Trek TNG
She's always framed as the unreasonable Starfleet bureaucrat who Picard takes a brave moral stand against, but really she isn't.
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El Pollo Guerrera
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His name has chicken in it, and he is good at makin' .gifs, so that's cool.
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Post by El Pollo Guerrera on Jan 5, 2015 1:22:25 GMT -5
In "General Hospital", former nutcase Franco is the one who revealed to Michael that Sonny (Michael's stepfather) killed AJ (Michael's real father) after Franco found out that Sonny and Carly (Franco's fiance, Sonny's ex-wife, Michael's mother) had been screwing around behind his back... also that Sonny and Ava (mother of Michael's wife Kiki, and Ava is in a relationship with Sonny's son/Michael's half-brother Logan) had sex on AJ's grave the night of the funeral and Ava's child is either Logan's or Sonny's... so at Franco and Carly's wedding Franco stepped up and said "I want nothing to do with any of you" and told Michael the whole mountain of truth...
And Franco is supposed to be the bad guy here. Everyone else (well, except Michael) is covering up murder, scandal and infidelity and Franco's the bad guy.
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the2ndevil
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Post by the2ndevil on Jan 5, 2015 5:08:06 GMT -5
Admiral Nechayev in Star Trek TNG She's always framed as the unreasonable Starfleet bureaucrat who Picard takes a brave moral stand against, but really she isn't. Was she the one from the episode The Drumhead?
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