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Post by Alexander The So-so on Jan 5, 2015 22:16:29 GMT -5
Sasuke Uchiha on Naruto, to the point where it ruins the show. "so what if he tried to kill everyone in Konoha, he didn't succeed so that's still okay". Does Kratos from God of War count as an unsympathetic character? In the first game, it made sense as he wanted to make right to a wrong and to get revenge on Ares, but the other games have him as this mindless killer who wants to destroy everything just because. How is he supposed to a protagonist, even in the nominal hero territory? Was also thinking of this one. Kratos...buddy. Sure, Zeus was made paranoid and greedy by Pandora's Box. And sure, I get that you're pissed that Zeus hindered your campaign of conquest in favor of Sparta, and you'd like revenge. But for f***'s sake, you're literally destroying the world!!!! Floods! Plagues! The dead escaping from the Underworld! The sun blotted out of the sky, plunging the world into darkness! At this point, boo frickin' hoo about your grudge against Zeus.
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El Pollo Guerrera
Grimlock
His name has chicken in it, and he is good at makin' .gifs, so that's cool.
Status: Runner
Posts: 14,710
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Post by El Pollo Guerrera on Jan 5, 2015 22:33:05 GMT -5
In "General Hospital", former nutcase Franco is the one who revealed to Michael that Sonny (Michael's stepfather) killed AJ (Michael's real father) after Franco found out that Sonny and Carly (Franco's fiance, Sonny's ex-wife, Michael's mother) had been screwing around behind his back... also that Sonny and Ava (mother of Michael's wife Kiki, and Ava is in a relationship with Sonny's son/Michael's half-brother Logan) had sex on AJ's grave the night of the funeral and Ava's child is either Logan's or Sonny's... so at Franco and Carly's wedding Franco stepped up and said "I want nothing to do with any of you" and told Michael the whole mountain of truth... And Franco is supposed to be the bad guy here. Everyone else (well, except Michael) is covering up murder, scandal and infidelity and Franco's the bad guy. Michael's brother's name is Morgan, not Logan. They named him after Jason. Franco did plant a camera on Carly in the form of a gaudy ass necklace to spy on her. And I don't think they whitewashed Carly and Sonny and made them the good guys. Michael pretty much hates everyone now. 1) my bad. I knew it was "---gan" and was too lazy to look it up. 2) Franco only planted that camera to prove to himself that Carly wasn't cheating on him. Carly is nothing but a bull in a china shop, damaging everything and everyone around her with lies, and the audience is supposed to support her because she "means well".
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Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
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Post by Deleted on Jan 5, 2015 22:43:56 GMT -5
On Gilmore Girls, Rory always gets painted in a sympathetic light when it comes to her breakups, in particular the second breakup with Dean.
I'm sorry, but she was clearly attracted to Jess, who had no problem flirting with her, despite her being taken. And in the picnic episode, she isn't nearly as upset as Dean about Jess outbidding him. It culminates at the dance contest, when Dean dumps her, sick of being jerked around for half a season. And we're supposed to feel sorry for Rory in all this, even though she brought it on herself.
Then the following season, she flirts with Dean throughout the season, despite him now being married, which leads to his wife divorcing him! At least in this case, we're not supposed to be rooting for Rory and Dean, and Rory is run through the wringer by her mom for breaking up Dean's marriage, but this was part of a season and a half long fall from grace for Rory. And Dean still ends up being painted as a bad guy in the end. No wonder he fled to Supernatural!
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riseofsetian1981
King Koopa
"I met him fifteen years ago. I was told there was nothing left."
Posts: 10,323
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Post by riseofsetian1981 on Jan 6, 2015 12:44:28 GMT -5
My 2 favorite modern examples are Walter White on Breaking Bad and Don Draper on Mad Men. These guys do beyond unredeemable things and then the audience takes their side even when they are in the wrong.The Showrunners themselves are clearly showing them for the scumbags they are it's not like they are trying to make them anti hero's people just beyond reason treat them that way. I disagree with your analysis on Walter White. One of the minor gripes I had with the show is that towards the end, he didn't really do anything that despicable. He did do some unredeemable things, however, I felt Gilligan really didn't have Walt go far enough in my opinion. The idea was to make him as unsympathetic as possible and he still came across as this badass Kingpin, which he eventually became, had I wrote the show if we're supposed to have him be unsympathetic then he either should've killed Jesse or accidently kill Skyler or Walt Jr. THAT is how you make a character sympathetic.
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Post by Cela on Jan 6, 2015 13:53:05 GMT -5
My 2 favorite modern examples are Walter White on Breaking Bad and Don Draper on Mad Men. These guys do beyond unredeemable things and then the audience takes their side even when they are in the wrong.The Showrunners themselves are clearly showing them for the scumbags they are it's not like they are trying to make them anti hero's people just beyond reason treat them that way. Walter, at least, is supposed to be a morality lesson: No matter what your intentions are, going down a road like drug manufacture and trade will lead you to losing everything. He was never supposed to be a hero, Hank was. It's unfortunate that some people still see Walt as one. With Walt, I liked him because he acted exactly as anyone would have acted during the bad times. Were these irredeemable? Yes, but they were also the only way he was going to make it out alive. Meanwhile, Hank was a colossal douche, who, while in the right, was still a colossal douche. His wife was even worse, and I hated that she got off without any comeuppance, other than... you know.
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Post by Wolfman Rose on Jan 6, 2015 14:30:57 GMT -5
Walter, at least, is supposed to be a morality lesson: No matter what your intentions are, going down a road like drug manufacture and trade will lead you to losing everything. He was never supposed to be a hero, Hank was. It's unfortunate that some people still see Walt as one. With Walt, I liked him because he acted exactly as anyone would have acted during the bad times. Were these irredeemable? Yes, but they were also the only way he was going to make it out alive. Meanwhile, Hank was a colossal douche, who, while in the right, was still a colossal douche. His wife was even worse, and I hated that she got off without any comeuppance, other than... you know. Walt invariably ended up in those situations because of his pride though. Lets not forget there were always other options available to him. But he saw it as weakness to take a sensible way. Hank was a massive douche at times too, but he did evolve in a big way over the show, becoming a better father to Junior than Walt was. Hank was also a lesson in pride, but he made decisions to change himself, {Spoiler}{Spoiler} especially after his PTSD from the shootout and then his run-in with the cousins.
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riseofsetian1981
King Koopa
"I met him fifteen years ago. I was told there was nothing left."
Posts: 10,323
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Post by riseofsetian1981 on Jan 6, 2015 15:42:22 GMT -5
Walter, at least, is supposed to be a morality lesson: No matter what your intentions are, going down a road like drug manufacture and trade will lead you to losing everything. He was never supposed to be a hero, Hank was. It's unfortunate that some people still see Walt as one. With Walt, I liked him because he acted exactly as anyone would have acted during the bad times. Were these irredeemable? Yes, but they were also the only way he was going to make it out alive. Meanwhile, Hank was a colossal douche, who, while in the right, was still a colossal douche. His wife was even worse, and I hated that she got off without any comeuppance, other than... you know. The fact that Hank said: {Spoiler}It didn't matter whether Jesse was killed or not when attempting to capture Walt showed he was a douche still.
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Post by Some Guy on Jan 6, 2015 15:45:53 GMT -5
Walter, at least, is supposed to be a morality lesson: No matter what your intentions are, going down a road like drug manufacture and trade will lead you to losing everything. He was never supposed to be a hero, Hank was. It's unfortunate that some people still see Walt as one. With Walt, I liked him because he acted exactly as anyone would have acted during the bad times. Were these irredeemable? Yes, but they were also the only way he was going to make it out alive. Meanwhile, Hank was a colossal douche, who, while in the right, was still a colossal douche. His wife was even worse, and I hated that she got off without any comeuppance, other than... you know. Walt acted as anyone else would have? He could have gotten a cushy job in season 1 and his healthcare paid for, but said no because of pride. {Spoiler} He could have stopped Jane from dying, but he didn't. He let an innocent guy in Gail die instead of turning to the DEA like Jesse suggested. He forced his son to get sick from drinking too much. He basically sexually assaulted his wife. He got his brother in law and his partner killed. He ruined his wife and son's lives. He is absolutely the problem here, way more than Hank repressing shit because he needed a psychiatrist.
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Post by Cela on Jan 6, 2015 15:54:09 GMT -5
With Walt, I liked him because he acted exactly as anyone would have acted during the bad times. Were these irredeemable? Yes, but they were also the only way he was going to make it out alive. Meanwhile, Hank was a colossal douche, who, while in the right, was still a colossal douche. His wife was even worse, and I hated that she got off without any comeuppance, other than... you know. Walt acted as anyone else would have? He could have gotten a cushy job in season 1 and his healthcare paid for, but said no because of pride. {Spoiler}{Spoiler} He could have stopped Jane from dying, but he didn't. He let an innocent guy in Gail die instead of turning to the DEA like Jesse suggested. He forced his son to get sick from drinking too much. He basically sexually assaulted his wife. He got his brother in law and his partner killed. He ruined his wife and son's lives. He is absolutely the problem here, way more than Hank repressing shit because he needed a psychiatrist. Good points, but I am never able to understand how Jane dying was a bad thing (minus plane thing). She was going to destroy Jesse with her way of life, also... kinda awful.
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riseofsetian1981
King Koopa
"I met him fifteen years ago. I was told there was nothing left."
Posts: 10,323
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Post by riseofsetian1981 on Jan 6, 2015 15:55:25 GMT -5
With Walt, I liked him because he acted exactly as anyone would have acted during the bad times. Were these irredeemable? Yes, but they were also the only way he was going to make it out alive. Meanwhile, Hank was a colossal douche, who, while in the right, was still a colossal douche. His wife was even worse, and I hated that she got off without any comeuppance, other than... you know. Walt acted as anyone else would have? He could have gotten a cushy job in season 1 and his healthcare paid for, but said no because of pride. {Spoiler}{Spoiler} He could have stopped Jane from dying, but he didn't. He let an innocent guy in Gail die instead of turning to the DEA like Jesse suggested. He forced his son to get sick from drinking too much. He basically sexually assaulted his wife. He got his brother in law and his partner killed. He ruined his wife and son's lives. He is absolutely the problem here, way more than Hank repressing shit because he needed a psychiatrist. {Spoiler}How exactly did he sexually assault Skyler? Especially when they both had consensual sex in Season 4 and the fact that she didn't rat on him when Hank attempted to interrogate her showed her devotion to him.
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Post by "Gizzark" Mike Wronglevenay on Jan 6, 2015 16:06:57 GMT -5
Forgot to add - Tim from The Office. Yeah Gareth was kind of a dick sometimes, but most of his 'negative qualities' were just him being weird, not a bad guy. He was quite a sexist but that's something that can be worked on and educated out of him. Never mind Tim fawning over Dawn for ages despite her being in a relationship and denying that shit for years. Tim was the villain of The Office.
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Post by Some Guy on Jan 6, 2015 16:09:01 GMT -5
Walt acted as anyone else would have? He could have gotten a cushy job in season 1 and his healthcare paid for, but said no because of pride. {Spoiler}{Spoiler}{Spoiler} He could have stopped Jane from dying, but he didn't. He let an innocent guy in Gail die instead of turning to the DEA like Jesse suggested. He forced his son to get sick from drinking too much. He basically sexually assaulted his wife. He got his brother in law and his partner killed. He ruined his wife and son's lives. He is absolutely the problem here, way more than Hank repressing shit because he needed a psychiatrist. {Spoiler}{Spoiler}How exactly did he sexually assault Skyler? Especially when they both had consensual sex in Season 4 and the fact that she didn't rat on him when Hank attempted to interrogate her showed her devotion to him. Fridge part escape your memory?
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riseofsetian1981
King Koopa
"I met him fifteen years ago. I was told there was nothing left."
Posts: 10,323
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Post by riseofsetian1981 on Jan 6, 2015 21:13:39 GMT -5
{Spoiler}{Spoiler}{Spoiler}How exactly did he sexually assault Skyler? Especially when they both had consensual sex in Season 4 and the fact that she didn't rat on him when Hank attempted to interrogate her showed her devotion to him. Fridge part escape your memory? Fridge part? I may have to watch it again. I honestly don't remember what you're talking about. {Spoiler}I remember their fight with the kitchen knife that had them in the kitchen and into the living room.
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Post by Some Guy on Jan 6, 2015 21:29:58 GMT -5
It involves her wearing some sort of face mask lotion on her face, the kitchen and her demanding Walt stop and hitting him to get him off of her.
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Post by Zaq "That Guy" Buzzkill on Jan 6, 2015 22:51:05 GMT -5
It involves her wearing some sort of face mask lotion on her face, the kitchen and her demanding Walt stop and hitting him to get him off of her. I don't remember any scene like that happening at all. Granted I last watched the show last summer so it might have just slipped my memory.
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Post by Hit Girl on Jan 7, 2015 2:42:14 GMT -5
Severus Snape
He caused the deaths of James and Lily Potter and made their son's life far more miserable than it needed to be.
Then at the end of the story, he was supposedly a brave man who Harry named his son after.
I don't buy it.
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Venti
Unicron
Posts: 2,994
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Post by Venti on Jan 7, 2015 3:10:01 GMT -5
John Cena.
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Eunös ✈
Dalek
Duck Feet Expert
Tolerated, just not practically liked.
Posts: 59,189
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Post by Eunös ✈ on Jan 7, 2015 6:00:32 GMT -5
Spongebob Squarepants
This little arsehole is constantly unprovokingly making Squidwards life a misery, so you can't blame Squid for occasionly retaliating.
Yet when he does his the bad guy and we're for some reason suppose to feel sorry for Spongebob?
Nope, I hate that guy.
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Post by aliciafoxfan on Jan 7, 2015 10:16:14 GMT -5
I hate on MASH Especially the first three seasons How Hawkeye and Trapper are supposedly such good guys yet they harass Margaret and Frank constantly, I know Frank isn't a nice guy but still.
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Post by Hit Girl on Jan 7, 2015 10:54:45 GMT -5
Ray Barone
He's just an asshole who seems to be barely able to function in a civilised society. He takes the "dumb husband" trope to extreme heights.
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