MolotovMocktail
Grimlock
Home of the 5-time, 5-time, 5-time, 5-time 5-time Super Bowl Champion 49ers-and Wrestlemania 31
Posts: 13,962
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Post by MolotovMocktail on Dec 23, 2016 4:20:41 GMT -5
I recently read Gart Hart's book and here's a doozy about old Cowboy Bill Watts: Didn't Fritz and Waldo Von Erich have Nazi gimmicks around this time?
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Post by héad.casé on Dec 23, 2016 12:41:21 GMT -5
I remember hearing something like they wanted to call Kyo Dai the Yakuza originally, and Tajiri had to explain to them why that was a really bad idea.
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chrom
Backup Wench
Master of the rare undecuple post
Posts: 84,686
Member is Online
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Post by chrom on Dec 23, 2016 13:25:19 GMT -5
At Turning Point 2008, during a match where Hiroshi Tanahashi and Petey Williams were facing one another, some jackass in the stands loudly shouts at them to get out and let some Americans in there.
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Mozenrath
FANatic
Foppery and Whim
Speedy Speed Boy
Posts: 121,069
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Post by Mozenrath on Dec 23, 2016 13:57:18 GMT -5
I remember hearing something like they wanted to call Kyo Dai the Yakuza originally, and Tajiri had to explain to them why that was a really bad idea. I don't remember if they wanted to outright call them that, or just heavily imply or even state they were Yakuza, but yeah, Tajiri talked them out of it considering the threat of retaliation. I forget, but wasn't he also around for an incident before he came to WWE where someone took a bump and crashed into some Yakuza at ringside, and then locked themselves in a room after the match until they could be assured the Yakuza weren't going to stab them over it?
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Dec 23, 2016 13:58:08 GMT -5
Didn't Jeff Jarrett's casual racism cause TNA to lose a lawsuit? Likewise, Michael P.S. Hayes said offensive things to Mark Henry and allegedly told Bobby Lashley to his face that 'he didn't like him, or anyone who looks like him' which lead to Lashley asking for and receiving his release with no strings attached. Triple H has the habit of calling hispanic wrestlers Bumblebee after the Simpsons Bumblebee Man character, according to Ricardo Rodriguez, he called him that, Super Crazy and even Savio Vega too. When he was doing his post release press conferences in Mexico, Del Rio also claimed that the member of management that informed him of his release (Triple H), had the habit of making racist jokes in front of people. The WWE made a lot of noise when he started looking to work for other promotions but backed down on their threats of enforcing his punitive no compete clause, provided he stopped talking about the casual racism among WWE management. Those are all short, stocky, and chubby high flyers. Kind of like a bumblebee.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Dec 23, 2016 14:49:54 GMT -5
I recently read Gart Hart's book and here's a doozy about old Cowboy Bill Watts: Didn't Fritz and Waldo Von Erich have Nazi gimmicks around this time? The Watts story was around 1974 and Hart actually exposed Fritz/Waldo as not being Nazis in 1966.
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Chainsaw
T
A very BAD man.
It is what it is
Posts: 90,480
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Post by Chainsaw on Dec 23, 2016 16:16:35 GMT -5
I dunno if it's applicable, but John Walters/RJ Brewer's anti-Hispanic gimmick might count. I don't know how close to those beliefs he actually hews to or if it's in character, but listening to his interview with Colt on the AoW a few years ago, it sounds like he may have some beliefs leaning close to that (but again, may be kayfabed).
What's weird about it is, his Wikipedia page lists that he owns a villa in Costa Rica.
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Honeybear Lyder
ALF
It's called a title match, dammit! I'll fire your ass, dammit! Get me a snowcone, dammit!
Posts: 1,154
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Post by Honeybear Lyder on Dec 23, 2016 17:35:43 GMT -5
I remember hearing something like they wanted to call Kyo Dai the Yakuza originally, and Tajiri had to explain to them why that was a really bad idea. I don't remember if they wanted to outright call them that, or just heavily imply or even state they were Yakuza, but yeah, Tajiri talked them out of it considering the threat of retaliation. I forget, but wasn't he also around for an incident before he came to WWE where someone took a bump and crashed into some Yakuza at ringside, and then locked themselves in a room after the match until they could be assured the Yakuza weren't going to stab them over it? That would be Sabu and Mike Awesome.
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Post by arrx on Dec 23, 2016 22:16:30 GMT -5
The bad bad Harlem Heat as slaves gimmick
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Post by The Dark Order Inferno on Dec 24, 2016 8:39:10 GMT -5
The Mexicools.
So you have 3 all time great high fliers from ECW/WCW with years of experience in Mexico, two of which who were fresh off well received appearances at ECW One Night Stand, so naturally the WWE made them gardeners.
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Brood Lone Wolf Funker
Ozymandius
Got fined anyway. Possibly a Moose
James Franco is the white Donald Glover
Posts: 61,969
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Post by Brood Lone Wolf Funker on Dec 24, 2016 11:23:15 GMT -5
The pinata on a pole match
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Post by The Dark Order Inferno on Dec 24, 2016 11:40:54 GMT -5
The bad bad Harlem Heat as slaves gimmick They were never, ever intended to be slaves, just convict stereotypes like Nailz. It was one of those things that got massively overblown by the internet over the years, Sid Vicious came up with it as he had the ambition of working backstage in WCW after he retired. he got Harlem Heat their jobs, looked after them while things were being finalised, going above and beyond by letting them stay in his home. Sid being Sid, I doubt it even occurred to him for a second that the gimmick would be perceived as racist.
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Post by N E O G E O B O Y S on Dec 24, 2016 14:48:33 GMT -5
Didn't JTG said that one wrestler who he admired, told him that he didn't like the ones of his kind while being drunk? (Is implied that was Ric Flair)
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Post by The Thread Barbi on Dec 24, 2016 17:11:40 GMT -5
McMahon is intriguing. He often cites Bobo Brazil as his favourite wrestler and is never short of a Brazil story (referencing all of Chris Jericho's biographies). He also has a bromance with R-Truth. Did Vince Sr and Jesse not employ a black man in senior management when racism was rife in the 50s and 60s? I think there haven't been many black WWE champions simply because they haven't sold as many tickets. When they did, like The Rock, they were made champion. If there is a wrestler that can be a proven box-office draw, say like early Will Smith, McMahon would put the title on him IMO. I've always seen Vince as someone who has no problem with black people whatsoever, but is also old enough that there are still certain stereotypes that he's never been able to fully move past. Kinda like how it seems racist when your Grandma or Great Uncle would still casually use the word "Negro" even tho there was no malice behind it, that's just how they grew up. And I say it's been very clear over the years that Vince has really struggled to evolve with the times Was just thinking of the black world champion in WWE. I cannot think of a black wrestler during the height of my fandom in the early 90s that could be a popular alternative to Hulk Hogan, Warrior, Hart etc that shifted merchandise and sold the arenas. Who was on the roster? Mabel, Kama and maybe Mo. Mabel ended up as a failed experiment and Kama lacked something. Later we has Henry. Faarooq, D Lo and Ahmed Johnson. Ahmed had something that enabled him to be the first black IC champion, but injury and a poor attitude /workrate soon halted that push. A different set of circumstances and perhaps he would have been World Champion in '97/98. Henry was green and D Lo was never going to be World Champion. He was a upper mid carder at best. This is the same company that paid over the odds for Mike Tyson's services and Vince promoted Muhammad Ali when he was world champion. None of the black wrestlers, bar the Rock, could capture people's imagination like the boxers. I don't think it's a conscious thing. Yes, they missed a trick with Shelton Benjamin, but they missed a trick with Daniel Bryan as well. Not going to venture into backstage racism, but I don't think it's right that such people haven't been weeded out, especially when the company is publicly traded and sells it's product internationally.
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Post by The Dark Order Inferno on Dec 24, 2016 17:59:53 GMT -5
[Was just thinking of the black world champion in WWE. I cannot think of a black wrestler during the height of my fandom in the early 90s that could be a popular alternative to Hulk Hogan, Warrior, Hart etc that shifted merchandise and sold the arenas. Who was on the roster? Mabel, Kama and maybe Mo. Mabel ended up as a failed experiment and Kama lacked something. Later we has Henry. Faarooq, D Lo and Ahmed Johnson. Ahmed had something that enabled him to be the first black IC champion, but injury and a poor attitude /workrate soon halted that push. A different set of circumstances and perhaps he would have been World Champion in '97/98. Henry was green and D Lo was never going to be World Champion. He was a upper mid carder at best. This is the same company that paid over the odds for Mike Tyson's services and Vince promoted Muhammad Ali when he was world champion. None of the black wrestlers, bar the Rock, could capture people's imagination like the boxers. I don't think it's a conscious thing. Yes, they missed a trick with Shelton Benjamin, but they missed a trick with Daniel Bryan as well. Not going to venture into backstage racism, but I don't think it's right that such people haven't been weeded out, especially when the company is publicly traded and sells it's product internationally. Vince is a bit of a victim of circumstances, there's usually a very valid reason why guys he clearly wanted to push to the world title scene didn't get the belt. Mabel worked with Taker and Nash and was clearly a guy they considered putting a title on even if it was just transitional, but he hurt both of his opponents, crushing Taker's face and performing the sitdown splash (which doesn't protect the opponent at all) on Nash when asked/told not to. Ahmed Johnson, again, he strapped a rocket to him, gave him the IC strap when it was the gateway to the main event scene and had him be the equal of Michaels and Warrior despite the guy hurting his opponents with his sloppiness, something else he had in common with Warrior, then he got hurt and others moved ahead of him in the pecking order and he fell by the wayside like Marc Mero. Bobby Lashley got the Roman Reigns push where he won and won and won and cut (clearly Vince scripted) promos like the Rock despite not having the skills to make them work, Bobby then fell afoul of Michael P.S. Hayes and asked for his release, which was granted with no strings attached, something Lashley himself is sure happened without Vince's knowledge. Hayes should have been canned, but if he's not going to be canned for getting embarrassingly drunk at Steph's wedding, nothing will get him fired.
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oj32
AC Slater
Posts: 109
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Post by oj32 on Dec 24, 2016 18:31:41 GMT -5
If ESPN hasn't become a gutless company, this would be an excellent subject for a 30 for 30. Instead they're doing a fluff piece on an old drunk who lies constantly and will die penniless.
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Post by nickcave on Dec 24, 2016 18:48:09 GMT -5
Shelton Benjamin had been fired for years at that point... Also he called Big E who had been signed for a couple of years Zeke, who had also been fired for years. It hasn't been an isolated incident. I've never heard a story of McMahon confusing white wrestlers. Vince also thought it was a good idea having the new day come out rolling dices and with stereotypes. Vince doesn't keep track of who is and isn't on the payroll, that's not a racist thing, that's Vince only really caring about the top 10% of his wrestlers, see the Jimmy Yang rehiring, or vince demanding that James Curtis be hired after seeing him in a dark match, despite the guy being under contract for several years at that point and so on and so forth. Vince was 100% behind the New Day even when the fans hated their act and had enough faith to let them find their feet when people here were yelling about how they should be split immediately, heck, he supposedly wanted Big E to be the next guy pushed a the face of the company /until Triple H got in his ear about Reigns. I'm not saying Vince isn't a little racist, but I don't think he's in the same ballpark as guys like Bill Watts or Jarrett. Jericho talks about in his book that Vince's hero was MLK and that he pushed really hard to have Sharpron guest host so he is full of contradictions.
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Reflecto
Hank Scorpio
The Sorceress' Knight
Posts: 6,847
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Post by Reflecto on Dec 25, 2016 1:18:35 GMT -5
Was just thinking of the black world champion in WWE. I cannot think of a black wrestler during the height of my fandom in the early 90s that could be a popular alternative to Hulk Hogan, Warrior, Hart etc that shifted merchandise and sold the arenas. Who was on the roster? Mabel, Kama and maybe Mo. Mabel ended up as a failed experiment and Kama lacked something. Later we has Henry. Faarooq, D Lo and Ahmed Johnson. Ahmed had something that enabled him to be the first black IC champion, but injury and a poor attitude /workrate soon halted that push. A different set of circumstances and perhaps he would have been World Champion in '97/98. Henry was green and D Lo was never going to be World Champion. He was a upper mid carder at best. This is the same company that paid over the odds for Mike Tyson's services and Vince promoted Muhammad Ali when he was world champion. None of the black wrestlers, bar the Rock, could capture people's imagination like the boxers. I don't think it's a conscious thing. Yes, they missed a trick with Shelton Benjamin, but they missed a trick with Daniel Bryan as well. Not going to venture into backstage racism, but I don't think it's right that such people haven't been weeded out, especially when the company is publicly traded and sells it's product internationally. Being fair, even slightly before that and you may have had the sweet spot. Go to the '80s, and it's not unfeasible that Junkyard Dog could have been the person (if only because of his Mid-South work being equal to Hogan's in the AWA, so he could have conceivably been that person if WWE couldn't get Hogan.) Junkyard Dog's in-ring work and his own demons likely fell through there, but he would likely be the closest thing they could have for it.
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Post by Tiger Millionaire on Dec 25, 2016 1:51:59 GMT -5
If ESPN hasn't become a gutless company, this would be an excellent subject for a 30 for 30. Instead they're doing a fluff piece on an old drunk who lies constantly and will die penniless. Joe Namath?
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Post by Alice Syndrome on Dec 25, 2016 8:22:33 GMT -5
Magnus was told by Russo he wouldn't ever become a Champion because he was British Then proceeded to become the first EVER British World Heavyweight Champion
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