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Post by Jedi-El of Tomorrow on Dec 25, 2016 9:39:44 GMT -5
I don't remember if they wanted to outright call them that, or just heavily imply or even state they were Yakuza, but yeah, Tajiri talked them out of it considering the threat of retaliation. I forget, but wasn't he also around for an incident before he came to WWE where someone took a bump and crashed into some Yakuza at ringside, and then locked themselves in a room after the match until they could be assured the Yakuza weren't going to stab them over it? That would be Sabu and Mike Awesome. And Jericho tells a story in his first book where he somebody else were throwing a flower pot back and forth, and of course they dropped it breaking it, and somebody in a car (Yakuza member) told them to clean it up and pay for it. As Jericho said, they were drunk not stupid, so they gave the guy money and cleaned it up. You don't f*** with the Yakuza.
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Futureraven: Beelzebruv
Bill S. Preston, Esq.
The Ultimate Arbiter of Right And Wrong
Spent half my life here, God help me
Posts: 15,050
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Post by Futureraven: Beelzebruv on Dec 25, 2016 11:45:55 GMT -5
The bad bad Harlem Heat as slaves gimmick They were never, ever intended to be slaves, just convict stereotypes like Nailz. It was one of those things that got massively overblown by the internet over the years, Sid Vicious came up with it as he had the ambition of working backstage in WCW after he retired. he got Harlem Heat their jobs, looked after them while things were being finalised, going above and beyond by letting them stay in his home. Sid being Sid, I doubt it even occurred to him for a second that the gimmick would be perceived as racist. This may be true, but if so, it would have been severely mishandled if it had progressed like it was reported. They might say they're not slaves, but 2 black men in chains being controlled by someone dressed like Boss Hogg would always be problematic at best. Have them be prisoners but not in chains, give them a different manager, then, yeah it's a stereotype, but no worse than there's been in wrestling, but the whole package...
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Post by The Thread Barbi on Dec 25, 2016 15:59:24 GMT -5
Was just thinking of the black world champion in WWE. I cannot think of a black wrestler during the height of my fandom in the early 90s that could be a popular alternative to Hulk Hogan, Warrior, Hart etc that shifted merchandise and sold the arenas. Who was on the roster? Mabel, Kama and maybe Mo. Mabel ended up as a failed experiment and Kama lacked something. Later we has Henry. Faarooq, D Lo and Ahmed Johnson. Ahmed had something that enabled him to be the first black IC champion, but injury and a poor attitude /workrate soon halted that push. A different set of circumstances and perhaps he would have been World Champion in '97/98. Henry was green and D Lo was never going to be World Champion. He was a upper mid carder at best. This is the same company that paid over the odds for Mike Tyson's services and Vince promoted Muhammad Ali when he was world champion. None of the black wrestlers, bar the Rock, could capture people's imagination like the boxers. I don't think it's a conscious thing. Yes, they missed a trick with Shelton Benjamin, but they missed a trick with Daniel Bryan as well. Not going to venture into backstage racism, but I don't think it's right that such people haven't been weeded out, especially when the company is publicly traded and sells it's product internationally. Being fair, even slightly before that and you may have had the sweet spot. Go to the '80s, and it's not unfeasible that Junkyard Dog could have been the person (if only because of his Mid-South work being equal to Hogan's in the AWA, so he could have conceivably been that person if WWE couldn't get Hogan.) Junkyard Dog's in-ring work and his own demons likely fell through there, but he would likely be the closest thing they could have for it. True, I have heard that JYD was a backup plan for national expansion but Hogan appeared in Rocky 3 and that was that for anyone, let alone JYD.
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mizerable
Fry's dog Seymour
You're the lowest on the totem pole here, Alva. The lowest.
Posts: 23,475
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Post by mizerable on Dec 26, 2016 16:20:27 GMT -5
I believe in one of his shoots, Teddy Long said that Flair threw the N word around slot, even using it in a confrontation regarding something that he thought Teddy did. He was also apparently against Teddy as a manager, and largely against Simmons turning face.
Jim Herd was an idiot when it came to wrestling, but at least he tried to be progressive in the process.
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Post by Surfer Sandman on Dec 26, 2016 22:59:51 GMT -5
I've always seen Vince as someone who has no problem with black people whatsoever, but is also old enough that there are still certain stereotypes that he's never been able to fully move past. Kinda like how it seems racist when your Grandma or Great Uncle would still casually use the word "Negro" even tho there was no malice behind it, that's just how they grew up. And I say it's been very clear over the years that Vince has really struggled to evolve with the times While I am all for equality and think racism is a terrible thing. I would like to add it's difficult for lots of people to change with the times at this point. SJW culture and the overly sensitive butthurt generation we are in now has led to the nothing is funny everything is offensive mindset that is so totally over the top it's killing standup comedy and pretty much any median that involves jokes. Really? So taking offense to something that is genuinely offensive is now regarded as being "butthurt"? I don't think that the alt-reich and their "SJW" nonsense are helping either.
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Post by The Summer of Muskrat XVII on Dec 27, 2016 0:42:22 GMT -5
While I am all for equality and think racism is a terrible thing. I would like to add it's difficult for lots of people to change with the times at this point. SJW culture and the overly sensitive butthurt generation we are in now has led to the nothing is funny everything is offensive mindset that is so totally over the top it's killing standup comedy and pretty much any median that involves jokes. Really? So taking offense to something that is genuinely offensive is now regarded as being "butthurt"? I don't think that the alt-reich and their "SJW" nonsense are helping either. I'm gonna regret engaging in this, and I wanna preface by saying I disagree with his choice of words, but I understand the point he's trying to make. A lot of people now, ironically often straight white males, struggle to differentiate between actual racism/discrimination and what they perceive is racism/discrimination which is what is now causing the so called "anti SJW" ( God I hate the term SJW) backlash. Just because someone says the N word, doesn't necessarily mean they are being racist. Context is a big thing. But lots of people now won't look at the context, they just act like certain things can never be said what looking at why it's being said. For example, I'm watching Blazing Saddles right now. It's considered a comedy classic but there is no way in hell that movie could be made now because it liberally uses that word to lampoon racism. Now, obviously everyone is going to have different perceptions of offensive, but that's a whole other can of worms. And for the love of f*** please don't think I'm arguing that anyone and everyone can be a bigoted douche whenever they want, I'm just trying to say some people need to take a moment and examine context sometimes. I'm also not trying to say nobody is ever allowed to be offended. I sincerely hope my point comes across properly here, I'm still pretty uneasy about posting this.
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Post by Ronny Rayguns Is All Elite on Dec 27, 2016 7:02:05 GMT -5
The Mexicools. So you have 3 all time great high fliers from ECW/WCW with years of experience in Mexico, two of which who were fresh off well received appearances at ECW One Night Stand, so naturally the WWE made them gardeners. See with them I got the idea that they were supposed to be kayfabe rebelling against stereotypes with that gimmick. I remember them doing angry heel promos accusing the audience of thinking that's how they were SUPPOSED to be dressed. Although for the life of me I can't remember where that Angle went or if it had any payoff
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Post by KAMALARAMBO: BOOMSHAKALAKA!!! on Dec 27, 2016 7:59:48 GMT -5
Didn't they even goes as far as to air a Hirohito promo before they pulled the plug on the idea? Yes, the first promo said Hirohito. I choose to believe that was the same guy that pitched Unfrozen Nazi Heidenreich... "I've been up all night sniffing glue and reading a World War II history book, here are my ideas..."
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Post by Surfer Sandman on Dec 27, 2016 8:22:21 GMT -5
Really? So taking offense to something that is genuinely offensive is now regarded as being "butthurt"? I don't think that the alt-reich and their "SJW" nonsense are helping either. I'm gonna regret engaging in this, and I wanna preface by saying I disagree with his choice of words, but I understand the point he's trying to make. A lot of people now, ironically often straight white males, struggle to differentiate between actual racism/discrimination and what they perceive is racism/discrimination which is what is now causing the so called "anti SJW" ( God I hate the term SJW) backlash. Just because someone says the N word, doesn't necessarily mean they are being racist. Context is a big thing. But lots of people now won't look at the context, they just act like certain things can never be said what looking at why it's being said. For example, I'm watching Blazing Saddles right now. It's considered a comedy classic but there is no way in hell that movie could be made now because it liberally uses that word to lampoon racism. Now, obviously everyone is going to have different perceptions of offensive, but that's a whole other can of worms. And for the love of f*** please don't think I'm arguing that anyone and everyone can be a bigoted douche whenever they want, I'm just trying to say some people need to take a moment and examine context sometimes. I'm also not trying to say nobody is ever allowed to be offended. I sincerely hope my point comes across properly here, I'm still pretty uneasy about posting this. It doesn't come across at all. At the risk of breaking a site rule(s), I'll just say that racial slurs are racial slurs and should not be "normalized" by overzealous "anti-SJW" bros. C'mon people. What's wrong with this society and the anti-fact, anti-science, anti-intellectuals gaining prominence in our media?
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Post by Toilet Paper Roll on Dec 27, 2016 10:50:46 GMT -5
I'm gonna regret engaging in this, and I wanna preface by saying I disagree with his choice of words, but I understand the point he's trying to make. A lot of people now, ironically often straight white males, struggle to differentiate between actual racism/discrimination and what they perceive is racism/discrimination which is what is now causing the so called "anti SJW" ( God I hate the term SJW) backlash. Just because someone says the N word, doesn't necessarily mean they are being racist. Context is a big thing. But lots of people now won't look at the context, they just act like certain things can never be said what looking at why it's being said. For example, I'm watching Blazing Saddles right now. It's considered a comedy classic but there is no way in hell that movie could be made now because it liberally uses that word to lampoon racism. Now, obviously everyone is going to have different perceptions of offensive, but that's a whole other can of worms. And for the love of f*** please don't think I'm arguing that anyone and everyone can be a bigoted douche whenever they want, I'm just trying to say some people need to take a moment and examine context sometimes. I'm also not trying to say nobody is ever allowed to be offended. I sincerely hope my point comes across properly here, I'm still pretty uneasy about posting this. It doesn't come across at all. At the risk of breaking a site rule(s), I'll just say that racial slurs are racial slurs and should not be "normalized" by overzealous "anti-SJW" bros. C'mon people. What's wrong with this society and the anti-fact, anti-science, anti-intellectuals gaining prominence in our media? The "media" today encompasses a much larger group than it ever has. There's literally thousands of news outlets long gone are the days of local news and CNN. Whatever flavor you're searching for you'll find somewhere. But I agree with the post you're replying to. It's not so much words as much as it is context. Same time I have difficulty being offended by anything considered insensitive on WWE programming. I'm watching a show, a live action play. It's non reality. Now if Vince were to come on out if character and start a show off by saying "here's what I really think of (insert any group)" I'd think that crosses the imaginary line. But it's a show, it's always been a show.
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Post by The Summer of Muskrat XVII on Dec 27, 2016 11:40:40 GMT -5
I'm gonna regret engaging in this, and I wanna preface by saying I disagree with his choice of words, but I understand the point he's trying to make. A lot of people now, ironically often straight white males, struggle to differentiate between actual racism/discrimination and what they perceive is racism/discrimination which is what is now causing the so called "anti SJW" ( God I hate the term SJW) backlash. Just because someone says the N word, doesn't necessarily mean they are being racist. Context is a big thing. But lots of people now won't look at the context, they just act like certain things can never be said what looking at why it's being said. For example, I'm watching Blazing Saddles right now. It's considered a comedy classic but there is no way in hell that movie could be made now because it liberally uses that word to lampoon racism. Now, obviously everyone is going to have different perceptions of offensive, but that's a whole other can of worms. And for the love of f*** please don't think I'm arguing that anyone and everyone can be a bigoted douche whenever they want, I'm just trying to say some people need to take a moment and examine context sometimes. I'm also not trying to say nobody is ever allowed to be offended. I sincerely hope my point comes across properly here, I'm still pretty uneasy about posting this. It doesn't come across at all. At the risk of breaking a site rule(s), I'll just say that racial slurs are racial slurs and should not be "normalized" by overzealous "anti-SJW" bros. C'mon people. What's wrong with this society and the anti-fact, anti-science, anti-intellectuals gaining prominence in our media? I'm not saying they should be normalised, not at all. There are certain words that should never be normalised and should always catch someone's attention, because they carry a lot of power behind them. I'm not saying I shouldn't get called out for telling a racist joke, or that my friends should be able to refer to each other by a certain 3 letter F word without people calling them out on it. What I'm trying to say, is that the mere use of certain words doesn't not necessarily mean that person is a bigot, or wears a white hood at night, especially when it comes to something like comedy or the film/music/entertainment industry. Context is always a powerful thing. These words shouldn't be thrown around willy nilly, but by also saying they should never be said at anytime, in any context, by any person you're giving them even more power. Like I said before, I'm not talking about the segment of the population who believes they should be able to say whatever hateful shit they want and hide behind freedom of speech with no repercussions. But there have been people raked over the coals based on the word they said, not the context they said it in and I don't fee that's fair.
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Post by Hit Girl on Dec 28, 2016 19:41:10 GMT -5
Austin's "I see sand people" remark.
It was hideous.
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Venti
Unicron
Posts: 2,995
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Post by Venti on Dec 28, 2016 20:04:26 GMT -5
Austin's "I see sand people" remark. It was hideous. When was this?
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Post by 2coldMack is even more baffled on Dec 28, 2016 22:41:21 GMT -5
The Mexicools. So you have 3 all time great high fliers from ECW/WCW with years of experience in Mexico, two of which who were fresh off well received appearances at ECW One Night Stand, so naturally the WWE made them gardeners. See with them I got the idea that they were supposed to be kayfabe rebelling against stereotypes with that gimmick. I remember them doing angry heel promos accusing the audience of thinking that's how they were SUPPOSED to be dressed. Although for the life of me I can't remember where that Angle went or if it had any payoff That was definitely what it was in the first couple promos, but after that, that aspect of the gimmick got more or less shoved into the background as they got over pretty quickly as babyfaces.
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mizerable
Fry's dog Seymour
You're the lowest on the totem pole here, Alva. The lowest.
Posts: 23,475
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Post by mizerable on Dec 29, 2016 2:17:56 GMT -5
Austin's "I see sand people" remark. It was hideous. When was this? Tribute to the Troops in Baghdad. Stone Cold noticed a large dune nearby. "I see sand, people!"
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Mecca
Wade Wilson
Posts: 25,061
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Post by Mecca on Dec 29, 2016 7:02:50 GMT -5
While I am all for equality and think racism is a terrible thing. I would like to add it's difficult for lots of people to change with the times at this point. SJW culture and the overly sensitive butthurt generation we are in now has led to the nothing is funny everything is offensive mindset that is so totally over the top it's killing standup comedy and pretty much any median that involves jokes. Really? So taking offense to something that is genuinely offensive is now regarded as being "butthurt"? I don't think that the alt-reich and their "SJW" nonsense are helping either. Ok let me clarify here, there is a difference to me in being a bigoted idiot and saying things that are obviously to express a viewpoint that really isn't cool. But at the same time things I feel have gotten completely out of hand with this. When you have guys like Chris Rock, Jerry Seinfeld and Larry the Cable guy, 3 of the most different comedians you could think of saying they won't play colleges because everyone is just offended and finds nothing funny. That says something about that generation of people I'd think. Hell one kid won't so far as to write Seinfeld a letter on how to not be an offensive comedian...what kind of college kid thinks he can give Jerry Seinfeld comedy tips? I can't imagine the flack someone like George Carlin would get today and most anyone that knows comedy considers him one of if not the great standups of all time. His standup is loaded with racial remarks, sexual remarks all sorts of things that would have people going nuts over today. I guess a lot of what I'm trying to convey is forms of entertainment that rely on this type of humor are really having issues due to as I called it the butthurt generation. Standup comedy in and of itself has all of the aspects that schools teach kids are bullying. Professional wrestling since it's beginning has thrived on booking things in a way that play on stereotypes. Movies, TV shows all of them have done this since their beginning. Some of the best feuds in wrestling, some of the best jokes in comedy, some of the best humor in tv and movies come from laughing at stereotypes but now somehow all of that is not supposed to be ok at all. I guess I just don't understand how we went from laughing at stupid shit and pointing it out to if it's brought up at all then it's part of the problem to.
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Post by The Dark Order Inferno on Dec 29, 2016 10:11:45 GMT -5
Really? So taking offense to something that is genuinely offensive is now regarded as being "butthurt"? I don't think that the alt-reich and their "SJW" nonsense are helping either. Ok let me clarify here, there is a difference to me in being a bigoted idiot and saying things that are obviously to express a viewpoint that really isn't cool. But at the same time things I feel have gotten completely out of hand with this. When you have guys like Chris Rock, Jerry Seinfeld and Larry the Cable guy, 3 of the most different comedians you could think of saying they won't play colleges because everyone is just offended and finds nothing funny. That says something about that generation of people I'd think. Hell one kid won't so far as to write Seinfeld a letter on how to not be an offensive comedian...what kind of college kid thinks he can give Jerry Seinfeld comedy tips? I can't imagine the flack someone like George Carlin would get today and most anyone that knows comedy considers him one of if not the great standups of all time. His standup is loaded with racial remarks, sexual remarks all sorts of things that would have people going nuts over today. I guess a lot of what I'm trying to convey is forms of entertainment that rely on this type of humor are really having issues due to as I called it the butthurt generation. Standup comedy in and of itself has all of the aspects that schools teach kids are bullying. Professional wrestling since it's beginning has thrived on booking things in a way that play on stereotypes. Movies, TV shows all of them have done this since their beginning. Some of the best feuds in wrestling, some of the best jokes in comedy, some of the best humor in tv and movies come from laughing at stereotypes but now somehow all of that is not supposed to be ok at all. I guess I just don't understand how we went from laughing at stupid shit and pointing it out to if it's brought up at all then it's part of the problem to. Jerry Seinfeld wasn't going to perform in front of college crowds whatever reception he'd receive, his words on the matter were, “I don’t play colleges, but I hear a lot of people tell me, ‘Don’t go near colleges. They’re so PC.'” He's judging an audience he's never performed in front of based on hearsay, but it's political correctness killing comedy and not cowardice and a reluctance to take risks or be in a situation where he'd have to adapt on his part. The letter you paint as a college student telling Jerry Seinfeld how to be funny (If it's the one I think it is) was basically a request for Seinfeld to come and perform his act and provoke discussion, saying those who are offended would thank him later. If he had faith in his material and his ability as a standup he would go out there and perform, dealing with hecklers in much the same way he would have had to early in his career, but he's a multimillionaire and doesn't feel he should have to adapt or try and win people over as it's the audience who are wrong. Tastes change, other comedians have adapted and a new generation have started who can play these venues and deal with heckling or tailor their material so not to get it in the first place, while he's in much the same position as the older, establishment comedians when he started out, playing larger venues, bitching about the idea of having to change their acts because people are 'too PC' and get offended because they use ethnic slurs. The 'problem' now is that people who were the butts of jokes in the past have voices now and support outside of their own group, I've never been okay with gay jokes for example, but now people will actually listen when I voice my displeasure at jokes made at the expense of people like myself being passed off as okay. The limp wristed, effeminate, attracted to anyone with a penis stereotype may get laughs from some, that doesn't change the fact that it's also an awful way to represent gay people and the humour that relies on it is something we're better off without as all these old stereotypes do is keep hatred and ignorance alive. Skilled comedians don't need to rely on material that would be spouted by a school bully picking on a minority or effeminate kid, mainstream comedy and entertainment started moving on from that a long time ago and has continued to thrive no matter what people who liked things better 'before things got too PC' might think. If you really must see comedy from the 'good old days' there's plenty of readily available old material for that, it's easier than ever to watch old films or comedy specials and live in that bubble while society moves on around you, which it's not going to stop doing no matter how much you complain about people being 'butthurt'. Maybe if wrestling had moved on sooner to keep up with the times it wouldn't be having the image problems it has in the present day and the difficulty it has shaking off the reputation of being a hillbilly soap opera in the eyes of sponsors, watched by the lowest rung of society. While there are some people who just want to be offended, they're a tiny minority, smaller than the conservative parents groups who bombard sponsors and broadcasters with complaints about anything remotely adult or violent on TV, but claiming that a 'butthurt generation' or 'SJWs' are ruining entertainment is grade-A bull****, there's plenty of great comedy out there, it is not a dying art and never will be. 'SJWs' are nothing more than a strawmen for people who want to be arseholes online to point at so they can claim they're somehow oppressed because they feel they should be able to spout whatever hateful garbage springs to mind without people calling them out on it, ignoring of course that a lot of the things they say wouldn't have flown as comedy 20-30 years ago and would get them punched in the mouth in real life.
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trust
Tommy Wiseau
Posts: 61
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Post by trust on Dec 29, 2016 14:59:06 GMT -5
Didn't JTG said that one wrestler who he admired, told him that he didn't like the ones of his kind while being drunk? (Is implied that was Ric Flair) Yes, he did. In his first book (yes JTG wrote a book), he claimed that a hall of famer called him racial terms. He said it happened again ( his second book)during a Wrestle Mania party, the hall of famer said to JTG that his kind ruined the wrestling business and they should have never been let into wrestling. The only details we know about the man who said the racist crap to JTG is that he is in the Hall of Fame and that he is now divorce (to a blonde woman).
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Post by "Playboy" Don Douglas on Dec 29, 2016 17:36:11 GMT -5
Didn't JTG said that one wrestler who he admired, told him that he didn't like the ones of his kind while being drunk? (Is implied that was Ric Flair) Yes, he did. In his first book (yes JTG wrote a book), he claimed that a hall of famer called him racial terms. He said it happened again ( his second book)during a Wrestle Mania party, the hall of famer said to JTG that his kind ruined the wrestling business and they should have never been let into wrestling. The only details we know about the man who said the racist crap to JTG is that he is in the Hall of Fame and that he is now divorce (to a blonde woman). Divorced from a blonde woman? Hell, that's half of the guys in the Hall.
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Post by Surfer Sandman on Dec 29, 2016 17:41:29 GMT -5
Didn't JTG said that one wrestler who he admired, told him that he didn't like the ones of his kind while being drunk? (Is implied that was Ric Flair) Yes, he did. In his first book (yes JTG wrote a book), he claimed that a hall of famer called him racial terms. He said it happened again ( his second book)during a Wrestle Mania party, the hall of famer said to JTG that his kind ruined the wrestling business and they should have never been let into wrestling. The only details we know about the man who said the racist crap to JTG is that he is in the Hall of Fame and that he is now divorce (to a blonde woman). Hogan?
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