魔界5号
Hank Scorpio
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Posts: 6,319
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Post by 魔界5号 on Dec 29, 2016 17:51:42 GMT -5
The entire build to Triple H vs Booker T at Wrestlemania 19.
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Post by Hit Girl on Dec 29, 2016 20:01:03 GMT -5
The initial booking of Muhammad Hassan made the people responding to him seem bigoted. You had Jim Ross use the old "love it or leave it" slogan. I think Foley and Lawler may have used the "you have the right to say what you want, but we have the right to call you an asshole" or something along those lines, when at that point Hassan's promos were pretty reasonable.
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Post by Ronny Rayguns Is All Elite on Dec 30, 2016 6:37:46 GMT -5
The initial booking of Muhammad Hassan made the people responding to him seem bigoted. You had Jim Ross use the old "love it or leave it" slogan. I think Foley and Lawler may have used the "you have the right to say what you want, but we have the right to call you an asshole" or something along those lines, when at that point Hassan's promos were pretty reasonable. My Favorite part of the early Hassan gimmick was him giving a pleasant promo in English and then Davari FURIOUSLY translating it in Farsi. I thought that was going to be the main crux of the gimmick and that could have been GOLD
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Post by Clash, Never a Meter Maid on Dec 30, 2016 8:36:22 GMT -5
Really? So taking offense to something that is genuinely offensive is now regarded as being "butthurt"? I don't think that the alt-reich and their "SJW" nonsense are helping either. Ok let me clarify here, there is a difference to me in being a bigoted idiot and saying things that are obviously to express a viewpoint that really isn't cool. But at the same time things I feel have gotten completely out of hand with this. When you have guys like Chris Rock, Jerry Seinfeld and Larry the Cable guy, 3 of the most different comedians you could think of saying they won't play colleges because everyone is just offended and finds nothing funny. That says something about that generation of people I'd think. Hell one kid won't so far as to write Seinfeld a letter on how to not be an offensive comedian...what kind of college kid thinks he can give Jerry Seinfeld comedy tips? I can't imagine the flack someone like George Carlin would get today and most anyone that knows comedy considers him one of if not the great standups of all time. His standup is loaded with racial remarks, sexual remarks all sorts of things that would have people going nuts over today. I guess a lot of what I'm trying to convey is forms of entertainment that rely on this type of humor are really having issues due to as I called it the butthurt generation. Standup comedy in and of itself has all of the aspects that schools teach kids are bullying. Professional wrestling since it's beginning has thrived on booking things in a way that play on stereotypes. Movies, TV shows all of them have done this since their beginning. Some of the best feuds in wrestling, some of the best jokes in comedy, some of the best humor in tv and movies come from laughing at stereotypes but now somehow all of that is not supposed to be ok at all. I guess I just don't understand how we went from laughing at stupid shit and pointing it out to if it's brought up at all then it's part of the problem to. Then maybe comedy needs to grow the hell up. You can easily be witty and subversive without relying on humor that's specifically designed to offend. And if Carlin was alive today, I'd feel the exact same way. And Kenny is right. Nowadays there are too many people who, even if they don't have prejudiced attitudes themselves, show little to no empathy or understanding when people try to explain exactly why they may find a joke or comment hurtful. If curbing my words and questioning my own preconceptions makes me an SJW or part of the "butthurt generation ", then consider me a proudly butthurt SJW. I am BEYOND tired of this mentality that people need to "suck it up and get thicker skin." No, the world needs to become less cruel first.
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Post by Clash, Never a Meter Maid on Dec 30, 2016 8:48:12 GMT -5
Ok let me clarify here, there is a difference to me in being a bigoted idiot and saying things that are obviously to express a viewpoint that really isn't cool. But at the same time things I feel have gotten completely out of hand with this. When you have guys like Chris Rock, Jerry Seinfeld and Larry the Cable guy, 3 of the most different comedians you could think of saying they won't play colleges because everyone is just offended and finds nothing funny. That says something about that generation of people I'd think. Hell one kid won't so far as to write Seinfeld a letter on how to not be an offensive comedian...what kind of college kid thinks he can give Jerry Seinfeld comedy tips? I can't imagine the flack someone like George Carlin would get today and most anyone that knows comedy considers him one of if not the great standups of all time. His standup is loaded with racial remarks, sexual remarks all sorts of things that would have people going nuts over today. I guess a lot of what I'm trying to convey is forms of entertainment that rely on this type of humor are really having issues due to as I called it the butthurt generation. Standup comedy in and of itself has all of the aspects that schools teach kids are bullying. Professional wrestling since it's beginning has thrived on booking things in a way that play on stereotypes. Movies, TV shows all of them have done this since their beginning. Some of the best feuds in wrestling, some of the best jokes in comedy, some of the best humor in tv and movies come from laughing at stereotypes but now somehow all of that is not supposed to be ok at all. I guess I just don't understand how we went from laughing at stupid shit and pointing it out to if it's brought up at all then it's part of the problem to. Jerry Seinfeld wasn't going to perform in front of college crowds whatever reception he'd receive, his words on the matter were, “I don’t play colleges, but I hear a lot of people tell me, ‘Don’t go near colleges. They’re so PC.'” He's judging an audience he's never performed in front of based on hearsay, but it's political correctness killing comedy and not cowardice and a reluctance to take risks or be in a situation where he'd have to adapt on his part. The letter you paint as a college student telling Jerry Seinfeld how to be funny (If it's the one I think it is) was basically a request for Seinfeld to come and perform his act and provoke discussion, saying those who are offended would thank him later. If he had faith in his material and his ability as a standup he would go out there and perform, dealing with hecklers in much the same way he would have had to early in his career, but he's a multimillionaire and doesn't feel he should have to adapt or try and win people over as it's the audience who are wrong. Tastes change, other comedians have adapted and a new generation have started who can play these venues and deal with heckling or tailor their material so not to get it in the first place, while he's in much the same position as the older, establishment comedians when he started out, playing larger venues, bitching about the idea of having to change their acts because people are 'too PC' and get offended because they use ethnic slurs. The 'problem' now is that people who were the butts of jokes in the past have voices now and support outside of their own group, I've never been okay with gay jokes for example, but now people will actually listen when I voice my displeasure at jokes made at the expense of people like myself being passed off as okay. The limp wristed, effeminate, attracted to anyone with a penis stereotype may get laughs from some, that doesn't change the fact that it's also an awful way to represent gay people and the humour that relies on it is something we're better off without as all these old stereotypes do is keep hatred and ignorance alive. Skilled comedians don't need to rely on material that would be spouted by a school bully picking on a minority or effeminate kid, mainstream comedy and entertainment started moving on from that a long time ago and has continued to thrive no matter what people who liked things better 'before things got too PC' might think. If you really must see comedy from the 'good old days' there's plenty of readily available old material for that, it's easier than ever to watch old films or comedy specials and live in that bubble while society moves on around you. Maybe if wrestling had moved on sooner to keep up with the times it wouldn't be having the image problems it has in the present day and the difficulty it has shaking off the reputation of being a hillbilly soap opera in the eyes of sponsors, watched by the lowest rung of society. While there are some people who just want to be offended, they're a tiny minority, smaller than the conservative parents groups who bombard sponsors and broadcasters with complaints about anything remotely adult or violent on TV, but claiming that a 'butthurt generation' or 'SJWs' are ruining entertainment is grade-A bull****, there's plenty of great comedy out there, it is not a dying art and never will be. 'SJWs' are nothing more than a strawmen for people who want to be arseholes online to point at so they can claim they're somehow oppressed because they feel they should be able to spout whatever hateful garbage springs to mind without people calling them out on it, ignoring of course that a lot of the things they say wouldn't have flown as comedy 20-30 years ago and would get them punched in the mouth in real life. Right the hell on. Wonderful post.
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Post by EvenBaldobombHasAJob on Dec 30, 2016 9:33:32 GMT -5
wasn't racism it was homophobia, but Jay Briscoe cost himself the ROH title after going on a violent tirade about teachers telling his kids there's nothing wrong with being gay.
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Post by wildojinx on Dec 30, 2016 10:48:51 GMT -5
Hearing this stuff about Flair (if it's true) is odd as in his book he talks about riding with Brute Bernard and Skull Murphy early in his career, and being disturbed by their racism.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Dec 30, 2016 11:14:10 GMT -5
Mark Henry was asked to start calling himself "The Silverback," but he had to turn it down because it was offensive. Was this separate from his 2006 Smackdown run? Because I remember everyone, including Henry himself, using that term. Oh, this was 2007, leading up to Unforgiven, where they used that term.
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Post by ShaolinHandLock on Dec 31, 2016 4:13:18 GMT -5
I apoligise in advance for the following post, but I need to get this off my chest. If I offend anyone I apologise profusely, if I'm breaking any rules by posting this I apologise, and if anyone who reads this hates me and never wants to speak to me again, I understand. I've been thinking about how to properly express my opinion/thoughts in regards to the 'offensive comedy' discussion that was happening in this thread, as I have some stuff to say about it, and at the risk of everybody hating me I'm just going to say it. I don't agree with the blanket statements in this thread about 'offensive' comedy (or 'offensive' entertainment in general), as there is quite a lot of entertainment that I enjoy which could be considered 'offensive'. I think context and/or intent is important, and I often do find myself of falling into the trap of 'a ton of people on the internet find this thing offensive, but I don't, and I don't get it'. That being said, I often find myself in the exact opposite position as well, as there have been things which I've personally found offensive that no one else seems to find offensive...which is made even further complicated as I don't believe in the censorship of art/entertainment, even if I do find it offensive. And I realise that I'm a bit of a hypocrite for getting upset at things that I find offensive while simultaneously not finding other 'offensive' things offensive, but that's why I feel that this type of thing is so complicated. Overall I look at it on a case-by-case basis, rather than labeling everything as either 'offensive' or not offensive. Also, since the term 'SJW' was mentioned in this thread, I'm going to go on a short rant right now. I'm sick and tired of the whole 'SJW' vs 'Anti-SJW' thing. Same with extreme-feminists vs anti-feminists, or extreme-political correctness vs anti-political correctness...I'm sick of it. I don't want to have to choose any 'side', especially since lately ALL extreme sides of all of these arguments have really been upsetting me. Personally, I don't inherently hate anyone on either side of any of those arguments, I try my best to judge people solely based on whether or not I think they're a nice person or not, regardless of their personal views...and that's the problem. Because I refuse to label myself, I'm stuck in the position of being fearful about expressing ANY of my own opinions, because I don't want to offend anyone and I want to get along with everyone. And since I've gone this far, I may as well post my own personal opinions, since I know I'm going to be hated anyway...okay then, when it comes to 'SJW' vs 'Anti-SJW', I'm neither. I think there are toxic people on both sides of the 'argument', and while I do believe in a few social justice issues, I'd never label myself an 'SJW', as I hate the term. When it comes to political-correctness, I believe there should be a balance. Too much political correctness is bad in my opinion, but not enough political correctness is also bad, there needs to be the right in-between balance...I can't really explain it any better than that, sorry. And with feminism, I strongly dislike some extremist-feminists, but I also hate pretty much all of the toxic anti-feminists that I've come across online. As for ordinary feminism though, while I don't label myself, I do believe in equality, and if I had to choose a side, I'd lean towards feminism, as every anti-feminist I've come across is a horrible person. Overall though, I don't want to pick sides, my personal views are far more complicated than any label can describe them, and I hate labels anyway. Overall though, I'm SICK of people being divided by personal views...why can't everyone just be nice and get along? Now with that being said... Really? So taking offense to something that is genuinely offensive is now regarded as being "butthurt"? I don't think that the alt-reich and their "SJW" nonsense are helping either. I'm gonna regret engaging in this, and I wanna preface by saying I disagree with his choice of words, but I understand the point he's trying to make. A lot of people now, ironically often straight white males, struggle to differentiate between actual racism/discrimination and what they perceive is racism/discrimination which is what is now causing the so called "anti SJW" ( God I hate the term SJW) backlash. Just because someone says the N word, doesn't necessarily mean they are being racist. Context is a big thing. But lots of people now won't look at the context, they just act like certain things can never be said what looking at why it's being said. For example, I'm watching Blazing Saddles right now. It's considered a comedy classic but there is no way in hell that movie could be made now because it liberally uses that word to lampoon racism. Now, obviously everyone is going to have different perceptions of offensive, but that's a whole other can of worms. And for the love of f*** please don't think I'm arguing that anyone and everyone can be a bigoted douche whenever they want, I'm just trying to say some people need to take a moment and examine context sometimes. I'm also not trying to say nobody is ever allowed to be offended. I sincerely hope my point comes across properly here, I'm still pretty uneasy about posting this. Apart from your use of the term 'Anti-SJW' (I too hate the terms 'SJW' and 'Anti-SJW') I agree with pretty much everything you said in this post. And I know by saying that that I'm opening myself up for hatred, but I don't care anymore. It doesn't come across at all. At the risk of breaking a site rule(s), I'll just say that racial slurs are racial slurs and should not be "normalized" by overzealous "anti-SJW" bros. C'mon people. What's wrong with this society and the anti-fact, anti-science, anti-intellectuals gaining prominence in our media? I'm not saying they should be normalised, not at all. There are certain words that should never be normalised and should always catch someone's attention, because they carry a lot of power behind them. I'm not saying I shouldn't get called out for telling a racist joke, or that my friends should be able to refer to each other by a certain 3 letter F word without people calling them out on it. What I'm trying to say, is that the mere use of certain words doesn't not necessarily mean that person is a bigot, or wears a white hood at night, especially when it comes to something like comedy or the film/music/entertainment industry. Context is always a powerful thing. These words shouldn't be thrown around willy nilly, but by also saying they should never be said at anytime, in any context, by any person you're giving them even more power. Like I said before, I'm not talking about the segment of the population who believes they should be able to say whatever hateful shit they want and hide behind freedom of speech with no repercussions. But there have been people raked over the coals based on the word they said, not the context they said it in and I don't fee that's fair. Also agreed. Context is everything. Ok let me clarify here, there is a difference to me in being a bigoted idiot and saying things that are obviously to express a viewpoint that really isn't cool. But at the same time things I feel have gotten completely out of hand with this. When you have guys like Chris Rock, Jerry Seinfeld and Larry the Cable guy, 3 of the most different comedians you could think of saying they won't play colleges because everyone is just offended and finds nothing funny. That says something about that generation of people I'd think. Hell one kid won't so far as to write Seinfeld a letter on how to not be an offensive comedian...what kind of college kid thinks he can give Jerry Seinfeld comedy tips? I can't imagine the flack someone like George Carlin would get today and most anyone that knows comedy considers him one of if not the great standups of all time. His standup is loaded with racial remarks, sexual remarks all sorts of things that would have people going nuts over today. I guess a lot of what I'm trying to convey is forms of entertainment that rely on this type of humor are really having issues due to as I called it the butthurt generation. Standup comedy in and of itself has all of the aspects that schools teach kids are bullying. Professional wrestling since it's beginning has thrived on booking things in a way that play on stereotypes. Movies, TV shows all of them have done this since their beginning. Some of the best feuds in wrestling, some of the best jokes in comedy, some of the best humor in tv and movies come from laughing at stereotypes but now somehow all of that is not supposed to be ok at all. I guess I just don't understand how we went from laughing at stupid shit and pointing it out to if it's brought up at all then it's part of the problem to. Jerry Seinfeld wasn't going to perform in front of college crowds whatever reception he'd receive, his words on the matter were, “I don’t play colleges, but I hear a lot of people tell me, ‘Don’t go near colleges. They’re so PC.'” He's judging an audience he's never performed in front of based on hearsay, but it's political correctness killing comedy and not cowardice and a reluctance to take risks or be in a situation where he'd have to adapt on his part. The letter you paint as a college student telling Jerry Seinfeld how to be funny (If it's the one I think it is) was basically a request for Seinfeld to come and perform his act and provoke discussion, saying those who are offended would thank him later. If he had faith in his material and his ability as a standup he would go out there and perform, dealing with hecklers in much the same way he would have had to early in his career, but he's a multimillionaire and doesn't feel he should have to adapt or try and win people over as it's the audience who are wrong. Tastes change, other comedians have adapted and a new generation have started who can play these venues and deal with heckling or tailor their material so not to get it in the first place, while he's in much the same position as the older, establishment comedians when he started out, playing larger venues, bitching about the idea of having to change their acts because people are 'too PC' and get offended because they use ethnic slurs. The 'problem' now is that people who were the butts of jokes in the past have voices now and support outside of their own group, I've never been okay with gay jokes for example, but now people will actually listen when I voice my displeasure at jokes made at the expense of people like myself being passed off as okay. The limp wristed, effeminate, attracted to anyone with a penis stereotype may get laughs from some, that doesn't change the fact that it's also an awful way to represent gay people and the humour that relies on it is something we're better off without as all these old stereotypes do is keep hatred and ignorance alive. Skilled comedians don't need to rely on material that would be spouted by a school bully picking on a minority or effeminate kid, mainstream comedy and entertainment started moving on from that a long time ago and has continued to thrive no matter what people who liked things better 'before things got too PC' might think. If you really must see comedy from the 'good old days' there's plenty of readily available old material for that, it's easier than ever to watch old films or comedy specials and live in that bubble while society moves on around you, which it's not going to stop doing no matter how much you complain about people being 'butthurt'. Maybe if wrestling had moved on sooner to keep up with the times it wouldn't be having the image problems it has in the present day and the difficulty it has shaking off the reputation of being a hillbilly soap opera in the eyes of sponsors, watched by the lowest rung of society. While there are some people who just want to be offended, they're a tiny minority, smaller than the conservative parents groups who bombard sponsors and broadcasters with complaints about anything remotely adult or violent on TV, but claiming that a 'butthurt generation' or 'SJWs' are ruining entertainment is grade-A bull****, there's plenty of great comedy out there, it is not a dying art and never will be. 'SJWs' are nothing more than a strawmen for people who want to be arseholes online to point at so they can claim they're somehow oppressed because they feel they should be able to spout whatever hateful garbage springs to mind without people calling them out on it, ignoring of course that a lot of the things they say wouldn't have flown as comedy 20-30 years ago and would get them punched in the mouth in real life. I disagree with a few things in this post, but I know I can't properly express myself, so I'm not going to bother... Ok let me clarify here, there is a difference to me in being a bigoted idiot and saying things that are obviously to express a viewpoint that really isn't cool. But at the same time things I feel have gotten completely out of hand with this. When you have guys like Chris Rock, Jerry Seinfeld and Larry the Cable guy, 3 of the most different comedians you could think of saying they won't play colleges because everyone is just offended and finds nothing funny. That says something about that generation of people I'd think. Hell one kid won't so far as to write Seinfeld a letter on how to not be an offensive comedian...what kind of college kid thinks he can give Jerry Seinfeld comedy tips? I can't imagine the flack someone like George Carlin would get today and most anyone that knows comedy considers him one of if not the great standups of all time. His standup is loaded with racial remarks, sexual remarks all sorts of things that would have people going nuts over today. I guess a lot of what I'm trying to convey is forms of entertainment that rely on this type of humor are really having issues due to as I called it the butthurt generation. Standup comedy in and of itself has all of the aspects that schools teach kids are bullying. Professional wrestling since it's beginning has thrived on booking things in a way that play on stereotypes. Movies, TV shows all of them have done this since their beginning. Some of the best feuds in wrestling, some of the best jokes in comedy, some of the best humor in tv and movies come from laughing at stereotypes but now somehow all of that is not supposed to be ok at all. I guess I just don't understand how we went from laughing at stupid shit and pointing it out to if it's brought up at all then it's part of the problem to. Then maybe comedy needs to grow the hell up. You can easily be witty and subversive without relying on humor that's specifically designed to offend. And if Carlin was alive today, I'd feel the exact same way. And Kenny is right. Nowadays there are too many people who, even if they don't have prejudiced attitudes themselves, show little to no empathy or understanding when people try to explain exactly why they may find a joke or comment hurtful. If curbing my words and questioning my own preconceptions makes me an SJW or part of the "butthurt generation ", then consider me a proudly butthurt SJW. I am BEYOND tired of this mentality that people need to "suck it up and get thicker skin." No, the world needs to become less cruel first.I disagree with your point about offensive comedy (as I said before, I like some 'offensive' comedy stuff as well as some 'offensive' entertainment in general) but I fully agree with the end of your post (the part I bolded). I too believe the world needs to become less cruel. And that's that for now. I will say one last thing on the subject though, and that's that I generally don't find stuff that's intentionally trying to be offensive for shock value offensive.
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Post by EvenBaldobombHasAJob on Dec 31, 2016 10:23:34 GMT -5
Hearing this stuff about Flair (if it's true) is odd as in his book he talks about riding with Brute Bernard and Skull Murphy early in his career, and being disturbed by their racism. honestly it's not "that" unusual because even in things like misogyny and racism there's degrees. I have a friend whose pretty misogynistic but he'll take pause at things like men who beat their wives and the like. then there are things like homophobes who are made uncomfortable by gays and want things like their right to marry taken away but will object to crazies like Fred Phelps saying homosexuals should be flat out executed.
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Post by A Platypus Rave on Dec 31, 2016 12:30:47 GMT -5
Yes, he did. In his first book (yes JTG wrote a book), he claimed that a hall of famer called him racial terms. He said it happened again ( his second book)during a Wrestle Mania party, the hall of famer said to JTG that his kind ruined the wrestling business and they should have never been let into wrestling. The only details we know about the man who said the racist crap to JTG is that he is in the Hall of Fame and that he is now divorce (to a blonde woman). Divorced from a blonde woman? Hell, that's half of the guys in the Hall. Seriously... if that's the only qualifiers we have that doesn't really narrow it down... off the top of my head Hogan, Flair and Austin all fit that distinction
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Post by crowley1986 on Dec 31, 2016 18:55:33 GMT -5
Divorced from a blonde woman? Hell, that's half of the guys in the Hall. Seriously... if that's the only qualifiers we have that doesn't really narrow it down... off the top of my head Hogan, Flair and Austin all fit that distinction Hayes I believe got divorced recently
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Post by crowley1986 on Dec 31, 2016 19:09:14 GMT -5
Was this separate from his 2006 Smackdown run? Because I remember everyone, including Henry himself, using that term. Oh, this was 2007, leading up to Unforgiven, where they used that term. iirc they kept saying "the self proclaimed"
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Post by A Platypus Rave on Dec 31, 2016 19:31:11 GMT -5
Seriously... if that's the only qualifiers we have that doesn't really narrow it down... off the top of my head Hogan, Flair and Austin all fit that distinction Hayes I believe got divorced recently Dunno about that... I know He was married once before his latest wife. Not sure if either are blonde or not. What does disqualify him is why did I write this book was written in 2015. Hayes was not in the HoF until 2016.
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J. Hova
Don Corleone
Emotionally exhausted and morally bankrupt
Posts: 1,990
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Post by J. Hova on Jan 1, 2017 2:55:26 GMT -5
Ok let me clarify here, there is a difference to me in being a bigoted idiot and saying things that are obviously to express a viewpoint that really isn't cool. But at the same time things I feel have gotten completely out of hand with this. When you have guys like Chris Rock, Jerry Seinfeld and Larry the Cable guy, 3 of the most different comedians you could think of saying they won't play colleges because everyone is just offended and finds nothing funny. That says something about that generation of people I'd think. Hell one kid won't so far as to write Seinfeld a letter on how to not be an offensive comedian...what kind of college kid thinks he can give Jerry Seinfeld comedy tips? I can't imagine the flack someone like George Carlin would get today and most anyone that knows comedy considers him one of if not the great standups of all time. His standup is loaded with racial remarks, sexual remarks all sorts of things that would have people going nuts over today. I guess a lot of what I'm trying to convey is forms of entertainment that rely on this type of humor are really having issues due to as I called it the butthurt generation. Standup comedy in and of itself has all of the aspects that schools teach kids are bullying. Professional wrestling since it's beginning has thrived on booking things in a way that play on stereotypes. Movies, TV shows all of them have done this since their beginning. Some of the best feuds in wrestling, some of the best jokes in comedy, some of the best humor in tv and movies come from laughing at stereotypes but now somehow all of that is not supposed to be ok at all. I guess I just don't understand how we went from laughing at stupid shit and pointing it out to if it's brought up at all then it's part of the problem to. Then maybe comedy needs to grow the hell up. You can easily be witty and subversive without relying on humor that's specifically designed to offend. And if Carlin was alive today, I'd feel the exact same way. And Kenny is right. Nowadays there are too many people who, even if they don't have prejudiced attitudes themselves, show little to no empathy or understanding when people try to explain exactly why they may find a joke or comment hurtful. If curbing my words and questioning my own preconceptions makes me an SJW or part of the "butthurt generation ", then consider me a proudly butthurt SJW. I am BEYOND tired of this mentality that people need to "suck it up and get thicker skin." No, the world needs to become less cruel first. Ok, here we go, first time poster, long time lurker.... I'll agree everyone should typically be kinder to one another but as someone who has watched and borderline worshiped everything George Carlin has done, when he touched on race, it was satire and defused racist overtones that were prevalent in his younger days. I mean when he called Richard Pryor a certain racial epithet, it was to defuse preconceptions that were prevalent in those days. BTW, those 2 were extremely close in their personal lives. I find racism for the sake of racism extremely offensive. I'm a white, straight, anglo saxon male but when you look at my friends and family, it looks like a UN meeting. With all of that said, as a previous poster stated, I watched Blazing Saddles for the first time in years the other night, and it almost made me fell off my couch I was laughing so hard. If you can find a movie that drops the N bomb more than that, I'll be surprised. The fact is that it was satire. Nothing and I mean NOTHING should be off limits in comedy or satire.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 1, 2017 4:30:58 GMT -5
wasn't racism it was homophobia, but Jay Briscoe cost himself the ROH title after going on a violent tirade about teachers telling his kids there's nothing wrong with being gay. Actually, they put the title on him after that happened.
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Post by TOK Hehe'd Around & Found Out on Jan 1, 2017 4:58:17 GMT -5
Then maybe comedy needs to grow the hell up. You can easily be witty and subversive without relying on humor that's specifically designed to offend. And if Carlin was alive today, I'd feel the exact same way. And Kenny is right. Nowadays there are too many people who, even if they don't have prejudiced attitudes themselves, show little to no empathy or understanding when people try to explain exactly why they may find a joke or comment hurtful. If curbing my words and questioning my own preconceptions makes me an SJW or part of the "butthurt generation ", then consider me a proudly butthurt SJW. I am BEYOND tired of this mentality that people need to "suck it up and get thicker skin." No, the world needs to become less cruel first. Ok, here we go, first time poster, long time lurker.... I'll agree everyone should typically be kinder to one another but as someone who has watched and borderline worshiped everything George Carlin has done, when he touched on race, it was satire and defused racist overtones that were prevalent in his younger days. I mean when he called Richard Pryor a certain racial epithet, it was to defuse preconceptions that were prevalent in those days. BTW, those 2 were extremely close in their personal lives. I find racism for the sake of racism extremely offensive.&nuh ; I'm a white, straight, anglo saxon male but when you look at my friends and family, it looks like a UN meeting. With all of that said, as a previous poster stated, I watched Blazing Saddles for the first time in years the other night, and it almost made me fell off my couch I was laughing so hard. If you can find a movie that drops the N bomb more than that, I'll be surprised. The fact is that it was satire. Nothing and I mean NOTHING should be off limits in comedy or satire. Blazing Saddles is different because the humor comes from how absurd the racism is. It doesn't use racism as a vehicle for cheap laughs, rather it looks at the absurdity of how people are treated differently due to skin pigmentation and provides a lens to examine it. That's different than "LOL RACISM" like a lot of humor is.
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J. Hova
Don Corleone
Emotionally exhausted and morally bankrupt
Posts: 1,990
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Post by J. Hova on Jan 1, 2017 5:20:17 GMT -5
Ok, here we go, first time poster, long time lurker.... I'll agree everyone should typically be kinder to one another but as someone who has watched and borderline worshiped everything George Carlin has done, when he touched on race, it was satire and defused racist overtones that were prevalent in his younger days. I mean when he called Richard Pryor a certain racial epithet, it was to defuse preconceptions that were prevalent in those days. BTW, those 2 were extremely close in their personal lives. I find racism for the sake of racism extremely offensive.&nuh ; I'm a white, straight, anglo saxon male but when you look at my friends and family, it looks like a UN meeting. With all of that said, as a previous poster stated, I watched Blazing Saddles for the first time in years the other night, and it almost made me fell off my couch I was laughing so hard. If you can find a movie that drops the N bomb more than that, I'll be surprised. The fact is that it was satire. Nothing and I mean NOTHING should be off limits in comedy or satire. Blazing Saddles is different because the humor comes from how absurd the racism is. It doesn't use racism as a vehicle for cheap laughs, rather it looks at the absurdity of how people are treated differently due to skin pigmentation and provides a lens to examine it. That's different than "LOL RACISM" like a lot of humor is. I do not disagree, for instance, while others might find that time that VKM dropped the N bomb in a promo, in CONTEXT, was hilarious with Shelton Benjamin. Basically, anything can be made fun of, or made a farce of, given the context.
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Post by Jedi-El of Tomorrow on Jan 1, 2017 5:49:34 GMT -5
wasn't racism it was homophobia, but Jay Briscoe cost himself the ROH title after going on a violent tirade about teachers telling his kids there's nothing wrong with being gay. Actually, they put the title on him after that happened. It destroyed his chance of getting to WWE.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Jan 1, 2017 9:36:05 GMT -5
Blazing Saddles is different because the humor comes from how absurd the racism is. It doesn't use racism as a vehicle for cheap laughs, rather it looks at the absurdity of how people are treated differently due to skin pigmentation and provides a lens to examine it. That's different than "LOL RACISM" like a lot of humor is. I do not disagree, for instance, while others might find that time that VKM dropped the N bomb in a promo, in CONTEXT, was hilarious with Shelton Benjamin. Basically, anything can be made fun of, or made a farce of, given the context. 1.) Are you sure it was with Shelton Benjamin? 2.) Not everything is open for you to be making jokes about, strictly because of the context. Because as much as Blazing Saddles seems to be a thing in this topic, there's a lot in the movie that was a bit more subtle, LIKE THE ENTIRE PLOT, or how even technically neither Headly nor LePetomane called Sheriff Bart the n-*DING!* but were still clearly racist as **** in how they wielded their power. That comes off more like a detail Richard Pryor put in there... But anyway, that's the thing. Everybody talks about the really obvious shit like "OMG! They called him a n*BONG!*" but not the really interesting stuff like how even after saving half the town from Mongo, Bart was irritated at how the white people were still too racist to even give him credit about it out in the open. I feel like that's how it is whenever people generally talk about the racist shit that happens in wrestling: we hit all the really obvious stuff like Booker not beating Hunner.... ...but what about the "subtle" stuff like the NXT crowd calling the ONLY BLACK WOMAN ON THE SHOW, "ratchet"? (Completely misusing the word in the process, but that's another thing...) ...or about how The Rock still being the only Black WWE champion? No, we gotta stop it with bringing up the WHC because nobody believes that title is equal until we start talking about why no other Black person can hold the WWE title. Because I got to tell you, you know what really cut me deep? Not just the news about Hania, which really gives me a sad because I had her pegged as showing up in NXT any minute now...especially since she may have been a bit shaky in the ring but she worked a bit with SDR and WWE needs every decent face they can get. ...which is another thing this racist shit in wrestling does: limit the talent pool by discouraging people to even participate or think of it as a career. Wanna know why you may not see as many PoC wrestlers as you'd expect? It's because people pay attention and these stories spread. Who'd want to even waste time dealing with this shit on their day-to-day? ...but anyway, want to know what really cut me deep just now? There has to be something said about the total lack of black people winning the WWE championship, aside from the Rock, where Vince's boner for the Anoai family trumps it. The lack of Brits winning a WWE title I can put down to circumstance, but no black people? come on. This is why I think all three members of New Day have peaked as singles wrestlers and none of them will go on to main event level when it ends like some people speculate. I had to pause... Scream "****!" to the heavens then regain myself, because I'll bet you my right cold, unfeeling robot arm that that's precisely what'll happen to them. They're popular. They're decent. And they'll primarily be used to put over Baron Corbin, or Finn Balor, or GODDAMN ****ING SHEAMUS, or Dolph "Mr. Steal Yo' Shit That Ain't Really Important To You" Ziggler (which if that happens, I'm just going to start screaming and I don't know if I'll ever stop) Because you know...as a wrestling head, there's certain things I get, certain things I used to get and certain things that takes a different perspective for me to get again. Ever watch this stuff with people who don't follow all that much...? This all-coveted "casual audience"? You know what this Sasha/Charlotte bullshit might look like to some of those people? WWE primarily using their most popular Black person who coincidentally enough is the lightest and brightest...(Strike One) ....as their main token...(Strike Two) ....to constantly make a less-talented white wrestler look good...(Strike Three) I was told how foul the whole thing comes off and...I can't say I disagree really. As a would-be Black fan or future wrestler, why would anybody want to watch or even deal with wrestling when you see stuff like that happen time and time again? ....wow. That post went some places. It really just came my annoyance from finding out what happened with Hania and wondering how many other people are driven away from wrestling because of that shit. ...and too from what I think is going to happen to Ember. Stupidly awesome in the ring, but she'll probably be used to put over how tough Billie Kay is or how crazy Nikki Cross is or some shit and that's disheartening as ****.
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