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Post by Gremlin on Apr 26, 2018 7:24:20 GMT -5
At least they won't show any Fabulous Moolah video packages, right?
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Abdullah
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Post by Abdullah on Apr 26, 2018 7:44:42 GMT -5
WWE ain't changin a damned thing here. Let's not kid ourselves. This has been touched on briefly, but WWE have done shows in Abu Dhabi for years. This year, Sasha and Alexa had a much-publicized match there for the very first time. So that's already one change that has been made in a country that's quite similar to Saudi Arabia. To the broader point of exposure not leading to change, I disagree even more vehemently. Consider that the UN uses pop culture and television shows to present progressive values in palatable way to different societies. Consider the amount of 'you're weary of this particular race? well, why don't you just sit and talk with them for a while?' type of research that's been done even in the last few years. Doesn't work every time, of course, but it can. It's not hard for me to imagine that someone might have been Balor's push for LGBTQ inclusion and realized something about themselves or realized that they should reconsider their stances. We take these things for granted because we're already bought in and we find it to be a little cheesy but it absolutely can matter. The only good argument I've seen against doing this event, and it's one I can't argue against, is that the women are being screwed out of a payday which is fundamentally unfair. There is no reason there shouldn't be a 'Women's only' PPV on the network. And soon.
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Post by Kevin Hamilton on Apr 26, 2018 7:49:42 GMT -5
We'll have to agree to disagree. I never said that art and entertainment can't help lead change; just that WWE itself isn't in this particular instance. I also never argued against the event. Business wise, it makes perfect sense, they're making money. But that's what they're doin it for, not ANY sense of altruism. And there's nothing at all wrong with that, they're an entertainment business plying their trade. I have NO problem with that.
Just in the thread it seems like they're getting credit for something they aren't really doin here.
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Abdullah
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Post by Abdullah on Apr 26, 2018 7:56:57 GMT -5
We'll have to agree to disagree. I never said that art and entertainment can't help lead change; just that WWE itself isn't in this particular instance. I also never argued against the event. Business wise, it makes perfect sense, they're making money. But that's what they're doin it for, not ANY sense of altruism. And there's nothing at all wrong with that, they're an entertainment business plying their trade. I have NO problem with that. Just in the thread it seems like they're getting credit for something they aren't really doin here. I'd be the first to agree that WWE's attempts to congratulate themselves are risible. I think their 'women's revolution' began because AJ Lee embarrassed Stephanie on Twitter at exactly the right time. They've earned the skepticism. I also think that doing this event has the potential for more long-term benefits, regardless of the incentives behind it.
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Post by Mighty Attack Tribble on Apr 26, 2018 8:02:39 GMT -5
We'll have to agree to disagree. I never said that art and entertainment can't help lead change; just that WWE itself isn't in this particular instance. I also never argued against the event. Business wise, it makes perfect sense, they're making money. But that's what they're doin it for, not ANY sense of altruism. And there's nothing at all wrong with that, they're an entertainment business plying their trade. I have NO problem with that. Just in the thread it seems like they're getting credit for something they aren't really doin here. I'd be the first to agree that WWE's attempt to congratulate themselves are risible. I think their 'women's revolution' first began because AJ Lee embarrassed Stephanie on Twitter at exactly the right time. They've earned the skepticism. I also think that doing this event has the potential for more long-term benefits, regardless of their incentives behind it. Agreed. This fits neatly into the category of doing a good thing for personal gain doesn't negate the fact that a good deed is being done. WWE are in a win-win situation, because if they play even a small part in a societal change for the better while making out like bandits, then they can crow about it until the end of time. And if nothing changes, then they still made out like bandits.
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Abdullah
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Post by Abdullah on Apr 26, 2018 8:24:26 GMT -5
I'd be the first to agree that WWE's attempt to congratulate themselves are risible. I think their 'women's revolution' first began because AJ Lee embarrassed Stephanie on Twitter at exactly the right time. They've earned the skepticism. I also think that doing this event has the potential for more long-term benefits, regardless of their incentives behind it. Agreed. This fits neatly into the category of doing a good thing for personal gain doesn't negate the fact that a good deed is being done. WWE are in a win-win situation, because if they play even a small part in a societal change for the better while making out like bandits, then they can crow about it until the end of time. And if nothing changes, then they still made out like bandits. And you made a really good point that the money they're getting for running a glorified house show (seriously, I'm paying close attention to the match quality tomorrow) could keep them from firing people in bulk for a little while longer. I certainly hope so at least.
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Post by Final Countdown Jones on Apr 26, 2018 9:11:01 GMT -5
We'll have to agree to disagree. I never said that art and entertainment can't help lead change; just that WWE itself isn't in this particular instance. I also never argued against the event. Business wise, it makes perfect sense, they're making money. But that's what they're doin it for, not ANY sense of altruism. And there's nothing at all wrong with that, they're an entertainment business plying their trade. I have NO problem with that. Just in the thread it seems like they're getting credit for something they aren't really doin here. I'd be the first to agree that WWE's attempts to congratulate themselves are risible. I think their 'women's revolution' began because AJ Lee embarrassed Stephanie on Twitter at exactly the right time. They've earned the skepticism. I also think that doing this event has the potential for more long-term benefits, regardless of the incentives behind it. I think the issue here isn't running the show so much as what they're saying around it and how they try to rationalize it with the image they want to put out. Like if three years down the line, Charlotte is the first female performer or athlete or even just really "first female (anything that isn't 'pro wrestler')" to perform in Saudi Arabia, then that would be cool and WWE would definitely have some ground to take credit for what would seem to be them legitimately pushing to make that happen and breaking some ground. It just takes a lot for me to believe Vince McMahon would be sitting there trying to negotiate social change and the advancement of womens' rights in another country, which is sort of how their answer is trying to make it sound.
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Abdullah
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Post by Abdullah on Apr 26, 2018 9:28:56 GMT -5
I'd be the first to agree that WWE's attempts to congratulate themselves are risible. I think their 'women's revolution' began because AJ Lee embarrassed Stephanie on Twitter at exactly the right time. They've earned the skepticism. I also think that doing this event has the potential for more long-term benefits, regardless of the incentives behind it. I think the issue here isn't running the show so much as what they're saying around it and how they try to rationalize it with the image they want to put out. Like if three years down the line, Charlotte is the first female performer or athlete or even just really "first female (anything that isn't 'pro wrestler')" to perform in Saudi Arabia, then that would be cool and WWE would definitely have some ground to take credit for what would seem to be them legitimately pushing to make that happen and breaking some ground. It just takes a lot for me to believe Vince McMahon would be sitting there trying to negotiate social change and the advancement of womens' rights in another country, which is sort of how their answer is trying to make it sound. I do think it's a smart decision to have Hunter and Stephanie and the wrestlers themselves as the public faces for this. Stephanie has given interviews to Arab media, not about this specifically, but about WWE's future in the region generally. It's a little easier for me to imagine Hunter pushing for progress than Vince, but the doubt you're expressing is warranted absolutely.
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Post by Hit Girl on Apr 26, 2018 10:47:47 GMT -5
I look forward to the Greatest Elimination Chamber in Chechnya.
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Post by Prince Petty on Apr 26, 2018 10:49:19 GMT -5
I look forward to the Greatest Elimination Chamber in Chechnya. Just make sure Finn doesn't wear his rainbow trunks, or they'll try to perform an exorcism on him... or kill him.
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Post by Cela on Apr 26, 2018 12:40:16 GMT -5
"Look, you just don't seem to understand how much money we are talking about here, but we are still standing up for our superstars. They wanted a match between Kevin Owens and three cheetahs, and we talked them down to two and a jaguarundi. Anyway here's Nia Jax beating up people smaller than her. Be A Star!"
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Apr 26, 2018 20:43:21 GMT -5
According to Jerry lawler's podcast, the women are getting a pay day for this
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Post by Deleted on Apr 26, 2018 20:58:38 GMT -5
Yep, these women are getting huge checks from this and even Sasha herself liked one of the comments about the 100-200M the company gains off of this. Honestly, I'd say that was the best thing they could have done for the women. They give them huge checks even though they can't perform, make some comments about Saudi Arabia changing in regards to women, potentially use the money to fund further activities towards women superstars like they've been doing recently.
I can't hate em on that. I can see why people would be against them doing business given the SA's landscape right now but if that can be used to help their own women out and futhermore help push the company's ideals towards how women need to be given respect (at least now) then props to them.
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Post by Clash, Never a Meter Maid on Apr 27, 2018 6:09:54 GMT -5
I get where Hunter is coming from, but it isn’t self righteous to be disappointed in Saudi Arabia’s decision here.
Change is slow, but if we don’t start the work and the necessary conversations now, then when?
If that makes me a social justice warrior, then so be it.
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segaz
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Post by segaz on Apr 27, 2018 7:02:40 GMT -5
"WWE are doing it for money"
Well....yeah. do you expect them to start a big fight with the UAE or to do the show for free to show how important the issue is?
"WWE dont really care about women and shouldn't pretend that they do"
I don't think they are claiming to be w bigger instigator of womens rights in the UAE than someone like Dr Nasser bin Ghaith. But is it wrong for them to see their small steps as being a part of the culture there changing? I don't think so as long as they don't try to take all the credit.
"WWE should refuse to perform there"
Changing actual culture of a foreign nation is hundreds of times more delicate than getting WWE to change the name of the battle royal.
"Women mean more than that. We can't wait. People are suffering now and WWE are profiting from it."
This is important, but it's not on the scale of an international crisis. I don't think rushing things will help here. You need to change culture from the outside in. Before you attack the illness, you need to prepare the body so it is strong enough to handle the treatment.
"The regime needs to go now and a WWE lead military coup leading to Vince running the country"
I don't know about that one. But there is a secret underground movement to get this started #holdthereigns
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Post by Deleted on Apr 30, 2018 12:22:46 GMT -5
An update on women's pay.
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Post by 111111 on Apr 30, 2018 12:30:51 GMT -5
An update on women's pay. I've got to give credit to pwinsider recently for actually bothering to contact WWE to ask them about things instead of just posting rumours. Its standard practice in journalism to ask the company about it and publishing it even if they don't answer or give a non answer. I know when the WWF went public they had problems with investors coming across dirt sheet stuff and the company stated they were annoyed none of the dirt sheets ever corroborated things with them so the backwards solution was to announce the WWF would no longer give comments to the dirt sheets that weren't even asking for comments in the first place.
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TWERKIN' MAGGLE
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Post by TWERKIN' MAGGLE on Apr 30, 2018 12:36:04 GMT -5
They better be paying Sami Zayn too...
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Nikki Heyman
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Post by Nikki Heyman on Apr 30, 2018 12:48:54 GMT -5
"The regime needs to go now and a WWE lead military coup leading to Vince running the country" I don't know about that one. But there is a secret underground movement to get this started #holdthereigns Is it sad that I want this movie?
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Post by chronocross on Apr 30, 2018 12:54:41 GMT -5
Other than Graves, has anyone else spoken out about this past Friday's event? Minus the tweets about Titus' fall.
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