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Post by GuyOfOwnage on Jul 19, 2018 7:25:36 GMT -5
This whole thing is a complicated emotional shitstorm. I can understand Bret being emotional, I can understand Martha being emotional, and I can understand Vince not wanting to touch the whole thing with a 100-mile pole.
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Mecca
Wade Wilson
Posts: 25,236
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Post by Mecca on Jul 19, 2018 9:35:05 GMT -5
No matter what side you think is right or what you feel about this, I can't get past that she didn't allow her kids to associate with Owens family after he died. That is literally a selfish and scummy thing to do, that is like getting a divorce and keeping your children away from half their family, no matter if you hate them or not, it's a really f***ed up thing to do.
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Post by 2coldMack is even more baffled on Jul 19, 2018 11:14:33 GMT -5
No matter what side you think is right or what you feel about this, I can't get past that she didn't allow her kids to associate with Owens family after he died. That is literally a selfish and scummy thing to do, that is like getting a divorce and keeping your children away from half their family, no matter if you hate them or not, it's a really f***ed up thing to do. In a non-wrestling context, yes, I agree with you. In a family with Smith and Bruce Hart in it? Ehhh.....things get a little grayer there. I guarantee you, with regular access to either of the kids, Bruce would have tried "Well, kid, how soon can we get you in a ring, it's what your dad would have wanted", and that's just as scummy. |
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Post by timelimitdraw on Aug 30, 2018 11:40:23 GMT -5
Sorry for the bump, but I wanted to share this:
The National Wrestling Hall of Fame has a Tragos/Thesz Pro Wrestling Hall of Fame wing. They inducted Owen at this year's ceremony. Although she wasn't there in person, Martha sent a photo of her with the plaque, which the Dan Gable Museum shared on their Twitter account:
At this point, I think it's pretty clear that Martha isn't trying to dismiss people honoring Owen's career. She just doesn't want to give WWE the green light to use his name for a HOF ceremony that's specifically designed to make Vince McMahon's company a lot of extra money over WrestleMania weekend.
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Post by The Legendary Ring Troll {BLM} on Aug 30, 2018 12:14:07 GMT -5
Sorry for the bump, but I wanted to share this: The National Wrestling Hall of Fame has a Tragos/Thesz Pro Wrestling Hall of Fame wing. They inducted Owen at this year's ceremony. Although she wasn't there in person, Martha sent a photo of her with the plaque, which the Dan Gable Museum shared on their Twitter account: At this point, I think it's pretty clear that Martha isn't trying to dismiss people honoring Owen's career. She just doesn't want to give WWE the green light to use his name for a HOF ceremony that's specifically designed to make Vince McMahon's company a lot of extra money over WrestleMania weekend. So let’s say WWE said 1/8th (or 1/however many inductees there are) of proceeds from the event, and 100% of all proceeds from Owen DVDs or whatever, would go to charity. Would she be okay with it if WWE made literally 0 profit from it? Or is it strictly cuz it’s WWE, so there’s no chance at all? |
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Post by 2coldMack is even more baffled on Aug 30, 2018 12:15:25 GMT -5
Well, that's that. Bret, I love you, you're one of my favorite wrestlers ever: Shut the f*** up.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
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Post by Deleted on Aug 30, 2018 12:44:00 GMT -5
The ugly reality is, when you get married and have kids that new family you create usually becomes your primary family. They're the ones you put a lot of your focus into and Owen had already started distancing himself from the wrestling business when he was alive. This is Martha's call. They were probably the closest two people in each others lives. Bret should leave it alone.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
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Post by Deleted on Aug 30, 2018 20:34:59 GMT -5
The Hall of Fame is worthless anyway. Does not being in it make you any less of a Legend? Come on.
It’s just a show, like any other. There’s scripts involved, an “undercard”, a “headliner”, you name it.
I mean... The ROCK isn’t even in it. But The Godfather and Rikishi are... that tells you everything you need to know.
A true wrestling hall of fame wouldn’t have so many lower carders in it. It would be strictly reserved for the likes of Hogan, Taker, Austin, Flair, etc. Being a WWE Hall of Famer means nothing.
I’m more upset about there being no Mattel Owen Hart figures than anything. It would be cool to play as him in 2K19.
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Post by Kevin Hamilton on Aug 30, 2018 20:37:43 GMT -5
Well there ya go, that pretty well should torpedo any argument any fan has that she's hurting his legacy etc.
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Post by The Heartbreak TWERK on Aug 30, 2018 21:17:22 GMT -5
WWE Hall of Fame is an annual show and a label because WWE loves labels.
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Post by ryanjoste on Aug 30, 2018 22:58:56 GMT -5
The Hall of Fame is worthless anyway. Does not being in it make you any less of a Legend? Come on. It’s just a show, like any other. There’s scripts involved, an “undercard”, a “headliner”, you name it. I mean... The ROCK isn’t even in it. But The Godfather and Rikishi are... that tells you everything you need to know. A true wrestling hall of fame wouldn’t have so many lower carders in it. It would be strictly reserved for the likes of Hogan, Taker, Austin, Flair, etc. Being a WWE Hall of Famer means nothing. I’m more upset about there being no Mattel Owen Hart figures than anything. It would be cool to play as him in 2K19. I dare you to go up to any WWE HOF'r and tell them it means nothing.
I am beyond tired of this kind of reasoning.
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Post by ryanjoste on Aug 30, 2018 23:00:14 GMT -5
The ugly reality is, when you get married and have kids that new family you create usually becomes your primary family. They're the ones you put a lot of your focus into and Owen had already started distancing himself from the wrestling business when he was alive. This is Martha's call. They were probably the closest two people in each others lives. Bret should leave it alone. Bret knew Owen is entire life and knew Owen far longer than Martha did. Bret has every right to be upset that he is not allowed to honor his brother. |
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Post by Kevin Hamilton on Aug 30, 2018 23:03:28 GMT -5
How is Bret not allowed to honor his brother? WWE isn't, but that doesn't stop Bret. And discounting Martha's relationship with Owen is no more right than it would be Bret's.
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Post by Red Impact on Aug 30, 2018 23:27:54 GMT -5
The ugly reality is, when you get married and have kids that new family you create usually becomes your primary family. They're the ones you put a lot of your focus into and Owen had already started distancing himself from the wrestling business when he was alive. This is Martha's call. They were probably the closest two people in each others lives. Bret should leave it alone. Bret knew Owen is entire life and knew Owen far longer than Martha did. Bret has every right to be upset that he is not allowed to honor his brother. Bret can say and do whatever he wants. WWE can't, they can only use footage that currently exists. That's the big difference. Also, you choose your spouse, you don't choose your siblings. |
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Post by Tiger Millionaire on Aug 30, 2018 23:32:31 GMT -5
Sorry for the bump, but I wanted to share this: The National Wrestling Hall of Fame has a Tragos/Thesz Pro Wrestling Hall of Fame wing. They inducted Owen at this year's ceremony. Although she wasn't there in person, Martha sent a photo of her with the plaque, which the Dan Gable Museum shared on their Twitter account: At this point, I think it's pretty clear that Martha isn't trying to dismiss people honoring Owen's career. She just doesn't want to give WWE the green light to use his name for a HOF ceremony that's specifically designed to make Vince McMahon's company a lot of extra money over WrestleMania weekend. So let’s say WWE said 1/8th (or 1/however many inductees there are) of proceeds from the event, and 100% of all proceeds from Owen DVDs or whatever, would go to charity. Would she be okay with it if WWE made literally 0 profit from it? Or is it strictly cuz it’s WWE, so there’s no chance at all? WWE can donate to charity without using Owen's name. And like the quote said "Philanthropy is the future of marketing.". |
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Post by Richard on Aug 30, 2018 23:36:10 GMT -5
The Hall of Fame is worthless anyway. Does not being in it make you any less of a Legend? Come on. It’s just a show, like any other. There’s scripts involved, an “undercard”, a “headliner”, you name it. I mean... The ROCK isn’t even in it. But The Godfather and Rikishi are... that tells you everything you need to know. A true wrestling hall of fame wouldn’t have so many lower carders in it. It would be strictly reserved for the likes of Hogan, Taker, Austin, Flair, etc. Being a WWE Hall of Famer means nothing. I’m more upset about there being no Mattel Owen Hart figures than anything. It would be cool to play as him in 2K19. I dare you to go up to any WWE HOF'r and tell them it means nothing.
I am beyond tired of this kind of reasoning.
Superstar Billy Graham will agree with ya, until WWE pays him then wait a week. |
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Aug 31, 2018 0:52:32 GMT -5
The Hall of Fame is worthless anyway. Does not being in it make you any less of a Legend? Come on. It’s just a show, like any other. There’s scripts involved, an “undercard”, a “headliner”, you name it. I mean... The ROCK isn’t even in it. But The Godfather and Rikishi are... that tells you everything you need to know. A true wrestling hall of fame wouldn’t have so many lower carders in it. It would be strictly reserved for the likes of Hogan, Taker, Austin, Flair, etc. Being a WWE Hall of Famer means nothing. I’m more upset about there being no Mattel Owen Hart figures than anything. It would be cool to play as him in 2K19. I dare you to go up to any WWE HOF'r and tell them it means nothing.
I am beyond tired of this kind of reasoning.
Plenty of HOFers have auctioned off their rings and said that it means nothing. Wrestlers who see titles as “accomplishments” are seen as marks in the business. |
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Post by Mighty Attack Tribble on Aug 31, 2018 1:37:20 GMT -5
I dare you to go up to any WWE HOF'r and tell them it means nothing. I am beyond tired of this kind of reasoning.
Plenty of HOFers have auctioned off their rings and said that it means nothing. Sunny (maybe, maybe not), Abdullah the Butcher, and Billy Graham don't really count as "plenty." |
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segaz
Samurai Cop
Posts: 2,381
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Post by segaz on Aug 31, 2018 2:05:22 GMT -5
I don't know, but i think I'd be interested in my dads work, even if the company he worked for asked him to do a dangerous stunt that he was alright with.
I'd be angry with the company of course but that doesn't mean I wouldn't want him to be celebrated. Especially among his co-workers etc.
WWE aren't going to sign away all the master copies of any Owen footage to Martha. Even if they did, the commentary, the arenas, every thing would still advertise the company to some small degree. No escape.
And I guess she is willing to see him remembered by other HOF. Plus the pain she suffered can't be discounted.
But I also understand how frustrating it must be for Bret, who really WANTS an opportunity to share his little brother with the fans via a big media release. To go over the vault properly probably brings up a lot of emotion for him as remembers xy and z. Planning matches, roadside stories. I think he loves the business, which is different of course from being a loving father and husband and ultimately is willing to sacrifice any final bitterness for the joy of sharing his brother. It tells when on OTR he says he changed his mind because all his old friends started dying.
I think he understands that yes wheb Martha dies, the WWE will renegotiate with Owens kids, but that could be 40 years, and he'll be dead himself and unable to share in it.
But it is Martha's choice. I wonder if psychologically, she gets some peace from knowing that while the WWE might have, in her eyes 'murdered' her husband, that she controls the estate. Maybe it would hurt her to see people buying Owen dvds which would bring recognition to the company no matter what.
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Post by DZ: WF Legacy on Aug 31, 2018 2:18:38 GMT -5
This is only kinda related, but that Life and Death of Owen Hart documentary is fascinating. It's different from the Wrestling With Shadows one. Owen gives a brief non-kayfabe interview in it that feels way ahead of its time. He's sitting there in his wrestling gear talking out of character in '97. Talks about not wanting to be a wrestler and just wanting to please Stu, his nephew that passed away ("It makes you realize you're living on borrowed time"), what happened after the tombstone on Austin, etc. All that perspective and the sad interview with Martha, along with the footage of them together with their kids, really make you at the very least understand her side of it.
Oje has no problem honoring his dad in his wrestling gear on his Instagram, which is really heartwarming to see. I just wish this complicated issue would resolve and everyone could make a deal to give Owen the celebration with the magnitude he deserves.
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