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Post by Ecks Ecks Ringout Ecks Ecks on Jul 17, 2018 17:22:07 GMT -5
Still baffled by the backlash over the main event chants.
They were chanting countdowns in a match for which the time limit was a central gimmick. Annoying, yes, but objectively I'm not sure it'd even make a top 100 list of the worst/most disrespectful things crowds have done during a match.
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Post by DrBackflipsHoffman on Jul 17, 2018 17:46:20 GMT -5
They should bring in big hordes of hunks to make up the crowds from now on, replace all the super fans with male models in the same clothes and put Fabio right up front cheering everybody
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Post by xxshoyuweeniexx on Jul 17, 2018 18:07:11 GMT -5
“Fans are apart of the problem”
Who bought a ticket in f***ing January for a show in July just to shit on it?
Maybe, just maybe, they thought it would be fun and cool to go to a PPV and see their favorites? Maybe they didn’t want a slow ass Iron Man match, no matter who it was, where nothing exciting happens except for interference and the last 5 minutes? Maybe they were cheesed off a bunch of heels won in terribly laid out matches?
I told my girlfriend the next time a PPV comes to Detroit that we’re going, but the way the product is..unless I start chanting for random people and bring out a beach ball, I’m not gonna have a great time with what’s happening in the ring.
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Post by Texas Tornado on Jul 17, 2018 18:38:48 GMT -5
Even the most cynical of wrestling fans go to the live shows with the intention of having fun and hoping they get a good show. I've been a fan of the WWE for 20 years now. The first live show I went to was Wrestlemania 17 and I've been going consistently every year since then.
I don't watch WWE regularly anymore. The product is bland and too inconsistent. But I went to NXT and Survivor Series last year because I expected at least some halfway decent shows and that's exactly what I got. The problem is that I bought those tickets months in advance and almost had to deal with Brock Lesnar vs. Jinder f***ing Mahal. Now? I can't subject myself to it. The dual branded 4 hour PPVs are too much and I don't have the time to sit through a bunch of stuff I know I won't like.
Sometimes WWE gets their head on straight and knows when they absolutely cannot disappoint their audience, but sometimes you get things like placing an Ironman match with Mr. Stale himself Dolph Ziggler at the end of a 4 hour show. People aren't going to be glued to the edge of their seats for a 30 minute match of stalling when they've seen Seth and Dolph, Seth and Drew, and Seth and everyone else have matches that are almost as long and 5x less boring on a random episode of Raw. Then those guys came out the next night and that 30 minute match was treated as an afterthought. You can't ask for fans to invest themselves in a product that doesn't invest in itself.
The fans aren't the problem. The product is. And we can't keep making excuses for a show that repeatedly makes bonehead decisions week after week.
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Post by Starshine on Jul 17, 2018 18:44:43 GMT -5
"Fans are the problem" is a useless argument to bring up, because there's no viable solution to it. It's like complaining that too many bears shit in the woods. What are you going to do about it?
If a entertainment based product is getting those sorts of reactions from PAYING customers. Maybe the end product is the problem. You never hear this same argument as much as you do inside the pro wrestling bubble.
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Cranjis McBasketball
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Knew what the hell that thing was supposed to be
It's Just a Ride
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Post by Cranjis McBasketball on Jul 17, 2018 18:49:22 GMT -5
"Fans are the problem" is a useless argument to bring up, because there's no viable solution to it. It's like complaining that too many bears shit in the woods. What are you going to do about We’re here! We’re queer! We don’t want anymore bears! |
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Post by SCCB Was Told To Do Steroids on Jul 17, 2018 18:53:52 GMT -5
For real, though, you all need to stop talking smack about Tony. He’s been through a lot of shit, and considering Steve kept that secret about how Tony’s parents died, I can’t blame the guy for not wanting to sit next to him. Winner! |
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Post by ben:friendship frog on Jul 17, 2018 19:12:42 GMT -5
I quite like Seth but him having a long match as a main event of a PPV, when you have two or three 20/30 minute long matches every single week on TV(don't forget his hour long gauntlet thing the other month) ... its not impressive, it's just dull.
In fact, Seth, who can weekly have 30 minute matches and usually win, lost 5 times in the same amount of time.
Its just a f***ed formula.
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Futureraven: Beelzebruv
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Spent half my life here, God help me
Posts: 15,535
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Post by Futureraven: Beelzebruv on Jul 18, 2018 3:00:38 GMT -5
1 more thing in the "WWE could have avoided this" column.
Ok, you have them annoyingly chant along with the countdown every minute. You don't want this.
Take it down right away, don't leave it up for over 20 minutes so they do it over and over, get used to it and notice it being gone.
How long would it have taken them to change to a graphic, and have the announcer say something every 5 minutes.
If there is a problem, they're terrible at reacting to it and make things worse for themselves.
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Post by Oh Cry Me a Screwball on Jul 18, 2018 3:34:46 GMT -5
1 more thing in the "WWE could have avoided this" column. Ok, you have them annoyingly chant along with the countdown every minute. You don't want this. Take it down right away, don't leave it up for over 20 minutes so they do it over and over, get used to it and notice it being gone. How long would it have taken them to change to a graphic, and have the announcer say something every 5 minutes. If there is a problem, they're terrible at reacting to it and make things worse for themselves. I actually really can't blame production on this one. If they took the clock away from audience after the first or second one, it's WWE being the fun police, and that won't go over well. Instead, they let it play out a bit to see if the fans would be bored of doing it at the 22nd minute mark or something, and they didn't. They finally took the clock away, which just incensed the fans, and they start doing their own countdowns. Some of them were way off, some of them were off by 2 seconds, and some were pulling up the network, which is on both a live delay and a streaming delay. Eventually, they relented because the crowd would be doing less damage if they were actually counting at the correct points. In hindsight, the smartest thing to do (aside from not having a clock on the tron in the first place), would have been to work through it without ever taking down the clock, and try to jam crowd participation (BURN IT DOWN stomps), signature moves, and viable pins/submissions into those 10 second timeframes as much as possible. |
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Post by Alice Syndrome on Jul 18, 2018 3:50:47 GMT -5
Play stupid games, win stupid prizes.
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Post by Nikki Heyman on Jul 18, 2018 4:06:49 GMT -5
I don't know about what fans are or aren't entitled to but I felt so sorry for Seth and Dolph on Sunday. I enjoyed their match a lot and I loved seeing them in the main event. They didn't deserve the crowd being more concerned about the clock and buzzing along with it than the hard work those guys were doing. It comes across like people going out of their way not to enjoy something they can simply not watch. They were reacting to the match though. for like the 20th time on this issue. They booed when Drew interfered and did heel stuff. the cheered for Seth's comeback they were red hot for the last 5 minutes of the match and ignored the clock for it.
They counted down when they were 5 minutes into a match they knew was going to be 25 minutes longer... and was mostly made up of restholds and stalling.edit: And Seth has been on twitter and made reference too it so I doubt he minded it that much. Going by that bolded logic, every other sport on TV you should just wait for the last inning/quarter/period/whatever to watch. I thought the countdown was "Cute" the first few times, but they kept doing it. And Dolph may be "Damaged goods", but he and Seth put on a match that shouldn't have had the countdown chants at all. I know that the crowd wasn't going to be into Lashley/Roman, so I'm not even gonna touch that. Dolph and Seth tried to save that show, and the crowd didn't want it to be saved. Then again, some of the timing in the match (why did it take so long for the ref to throw Drew out?) might not have helped. |
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Post by Final Countdown Jones on Jul 18, 2018 9:11:43 GMT -5
They were reacting to the match though. for like the 20th time on this issue. They booed when Drew interfered and did heel stuff. the cheered for Seth's comeback they were red hot for the last 5 minutes of the match and ignored the clock for it.
They counted down when they were 5 minutes into a match they knew was going to be 25 minutes longer... and was mostly made up of restholds and stalling.edit: And Seth has been on twitter and made reference too it so I doubt he minded it that much. Going by that bolded logic, every other sport on TV you should just wait for the last inning/quarter/period/whatever to watch. Sports aren't worked like pro wrestling is worked. Iron man matches tend to follow a very set structure because it's a scripted, planned format, and unless the story going into the match is so good that people can't help but be glued to it, the last minutes won't matter as much. In sports, anyone can get a major lead early and hold it the rest of the game, or go neck and neck the entire time, or just score no points. Wrestling has story beats, sports doesn't. That doesn't track at all. |
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Post by Feargus McReddit on Jul 18, 2018 9:13:56 GMT -5
Going by that bolded logic, every other sport on TV you should just wait for the last inning/quarter/period/whatever to watch. Sports aren't worked like pro wrestling is worked. Iron man matches tend to follow a very set structure because it's a scripted, planned format, and unless the story going into the match is so good that people can't help but be glued to it, the last minutes won't matter as much. In sports, anyone can get a major lead early and hold it the rest of the game, or go neck and neck the entire time, or just score no points. Wrestling has story beats, sports doesn't. That doesn't track at all. I mean, come on, we JUST had the World Cup where games can end 1-0 after 90 minutes and the final ended 4-2 after 90 minutes. That's like saying people shouldn't drive in cars anymore because the massive car crash in Blues Brothers 2000 happened. |
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Malcolm
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Post by Malcolm on Jul 18, 2018 9:30:07 GMT -5
At the risk of getting dog-piled it seems like the only time it's okay to criticize or blame fans(aside from being disrespectful ala "You suck X") is when they DON'T cheer or chant and just sit on their hands.
Not that I blame fans in this particular instance. I kinda hate Iron Man matches myself.
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Nikki Heyman
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Post by Nikki Heyman on Jul 18, 2018 16:03:38 GMT -5
Going by that bolded logic, every other sport on TV you should just wait for the last inning/quarter/period/whatever to watch. Sports aren't worked like pro wrestling is worked. Iron man matches tend to follow a very set structure because it's a scripted, planned format, and unless the story going into the match is so good that people can't help but be glued to it, the last minutes won't matter as much. In sports, anyone can get a major lead early and hold it the rest of the game, or go neck and neck the entire time, or just score no points. Wrestling has story beats, sports doesn't. That doesn't track at all. I think most pro sports are a work anymore because there's way too much money involved. And in Wrestling, any of the above scenarios can be applied to an Iron Man match. |
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Post by Final Countdown Jones on Jul 18, 2018 16:10:42 GMT -5
Sports aren't worked like pro wrestling is worked. Iron man matches tend to follow a very set structure because it's a scripted, planned format, and unless the story going into the match is so good that people can't help but be glued to it, the last minutes won't matter as much. In sports, anyone can get a major lead early and hold it the rest of the game, or go neck and neck the entire time, or just score no points. Wrestling has story beats, sports doesn't. That doesn't track at all. I think most pro sports are a work anymore because there's way too much money involved. And in Wrestling, any of the above scenarios can be applied to an Iron Man match. In the history of WWE I don't think there has ever been a single Iron Man match won by more than one point. In wrestling, the final minutes will be the deciding factor always, because that's the marked finish of the match. In sports, a game can go any of those ways, but when it does you know that's meaningful. In Sunday's Iron Man match, Seth ran up an early lead, and then Dolph proceeded to even it up again, because of course he did. In sports, there's no guarantee that match is eased up. Wrestling will always make the dramatic end happen, sports games can often have a very anticlimactic end, and sometimes even the opposite effect; my family's shut off hockey games before because one team got up a crazy amount of points and stopped caring about watching because it was a foregone conclusion and nothing after that would matter. In an Iron Man match, it's the ending that does matter. |
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Post by Deleted on Jul 18, 2018 17:06:55 GMT -5
The main thing WWE should take from this is to just not have ironman matches.
It's no fun knowing exactly when a match is going to end.
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Post by RadcapRadsley on Jul 18, 2018 17:21:24 GMT -5
If a entertainment based product is getting those sorts of reactions from PAYING customers. Maybe the end product is the problem. You never hear this same argument as much as you do inside the pro wrestling bubble. Disagree I don't think the Cleveland Brown team or management is the problem it's their fanbase and the city of Cleveland. There is a reason Miz would rather be a small fish in Hollywood then worshipped like a God in Cleveland. |
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Nikki Heyman
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Post by Nikki Heyman on Jul 18, 2018 18:21:09 GMT -5
I think most pro sports are a work anymore because there's way too much money involved. And in Wrestling, any of the above scenarios can be applied to an Iron Man match. In the history of WWE I don't think there has ever been a single Iron Man match won by more than one point. In wrestling, the final minutes will be the deciding factor always, because that's the marked finish of the match. In sports, a game can go any of those ways, but when it does you know that's meaningful. In Sunday's Iron Man match, Seth ran up an early lead, and then Dolph proceeded to even it up again, because of course he did. In sports, there's no guarantee that match is eased up. Wrestling will always make the dramatic end happen, sports games can often have a very anticlimactic end, and sometimes even the opposite effect; my family's shut off hockey games before because one team got up a crazy amount of points and stopped caring about watching because it was a foregone conclusion and nothing after that would matter. In an Iron Man match, it's the ending that does matter. 16 matches, 2 draws, and yes, the rest by 1 point. So it begs the question - would you stick around for a squash Iron Man match? Would you stick around for its entirety if someone got a 3-0 or 4-0 lead? In other sports, those last minutes are starting to matter. Championship series in baseball, basketball and hockey are having more 7-game series with extra innings/overtimes to match the WWE "model". The NFL even modified the overtime rules since fans weren't happy about kickers being the ones who decided games. Agree to disagree - if I'm going to watch an iron man match, with one exception (Orton/Cena that I actually attended and left my seat for 20 minutes) I'd watch the entire match. Ziggler/Rollins is a much better prospect for 30 minutes of my PPV time. |
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