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Post by Starshine on Jul 19, 2018 1:51:49 GMT -5
I don't know if the comments I'm going to make have been brought up or not (I don't have time at the moment to go back through the thread)but here are some thoughts: 1. The old adage of if you don't like it, don't watch it/pay/vote with your wallet I really feel like this is a cop-out. In order for this to have any effect at all you would need a huge amount of people to be doing this simultaneously or at least within the same time frame. One person will not, in the grand scheme of things, cause any sort of change. At smaller levels one person or a couple can always be replaced by new people getting into the product. They are only thing changing in this scenario is their own focus and directing their energy elsewhere. But if you're not satisfied with the product and know that your voice isn't being"heard", then giving WWE the silent treatment is still the "Loudest" thing you can do. We had a Rumble a few years back when Orton and Cena ended up in the ring against each other. It was met with ambivalent silence. They listened to that and didn't give us Orton/Cena #345,174,325,246 "And we mean it this time!!". So instead of making a ruckus at events, which WWE will take as "engagement" and push their agenda (positive reactions for your money, negative reactions out of spite because Vince is that petty), say nothing. Sit on your hands. If they can hear the AC system of the building, they'll know there's an issue. Silence is just as easy to do "in solidarity" and will get the message you want across. I don't think it's all that easy. In my experience, I haven't really been all that successful in inciting silence during group protests. Though personally I'd rather have fun doing the wave, or throwing a beach ball around, than sit there bored. I've been in both situations, and the former is definitely better. |
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Post by deviljatt86 on Jul 19, 2018 2:06:25 GMT -5
I don't know if the comments I'm going to make have been brought up or not (I don't have time at the moment to go back through the thread)but here are some thoughts: 1. The old adage of if you don't like it, don't watch it/pay/vote with your wallet I really feel like this is a cop-out. In order for this to have any effect at all you would need a huge amount of people to be doing this simultaneously or at least within the same time frame. One person will not, in the grand scheme of things, cause any sort of change. At smaller levels one person or a couple can always be replaced by new people getting into the product. They are only thing changing in this scenario is their own focus and directing their energy elsewhere. 2. No other options Other than what I will touch on last, what other options are there for people to vent their frustration? Ones that would truly get someone, anyone, of some worth to take notice of the issues with the product. I do not see what other action someone could take, on their own, that would have a large enough effect. E-mails or letters just get sent to someone who's job it is to reply back with pre-scripted ( the irony is palpable) responses. Phone calls to a customer service department/HR/equivalent would be met with similar results. Same with trying to contact someone via social-media and chances are they could be working you if they are talent in some capacity. Fans don't have the ability to create competition to force WWE's hand like WCW once did, any the companies who currently exist who could have any chance at doing that are either: Content with what they are doing on their own, don't have the talent,resources, TV distribution to compete on large scale level, have working relationships with WWE, or are Impact Wrestling. So again I ask, what other solution is there? besides... 3. Chanting in solidarity This is only reasonable, obtainable and preformable action that people have, which also happens to be the most direct. From your own mouth, to the company and either they are forced to take notice or they make some bullshit "most polarizing superstar" obfuscation because they are aggravatingly stubborn. We know that it can work, because the re-direction of the women's division is a result of it. (Getting them to not f*** up after they did something right, well, that's another problem altogether.) Maybe I am in the minority, but I have no personal connection to this company, in the sense that whether this company succeeds or fails, it doesn't affect me. (Now, this doesn't mean, that I don't like WWE or that I want WWE to fail. WWE is the only wrestling I watch. I am a WWE fan, and not really a wrestling fan) What does affect me is whether I am entertained or not. If I am being entertained, and this company folds, then yes, I will be saddened, but on the other hand, if I am not being entertained, and this company folds, I am not that bothered. So, taking that into consideration, if I am not enjoying the product that WWE is putting out, I will just stop watching. In the same sense, that if it was a normal TV show that was getting annoying or stupid, I would stop watching. For example, I used to watch Bones, for a couple of years, until the lead character just became very irritating and inconsistent. I eventually reached a point, when I stopped watching. Now, I don't remember exactly, but the show got cancelled a couple of years later, and that didn't affect me. On the other hand, I loved Human Target, and when that got cancelled, I was affected. So, my question is, why must we demand the company listen to us? If we don't like its product, why do we insist that our opinion make a difference? On a side note, I think wrestling, especially WWE, is the only form of entertainment, which has a significant portion of its fans hate the product, and not only still watch it but follow it & talk about it, currently. No other shows has its fans disliking the show, shitting on it, and then still watching it. For example, most people who watch Game of Thrones enjoy it, and don't actively bash it. They might dislike a season or two, but eventually they either stop watching, or they start enjoying it again. We, as wrestling fans, have disliked this product for years, and we still continue to come back. When is enough enough? |
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Post by Mister Pigwell on Jul 19, 2018 2:11:30 GMT -5
I don't know if the comments I'm going to make have been brought up or not (I don't have time at the moment to go back through the thread)but here are some thoughts: 1. The old adage of if you don't like it, don't watch it/pay/vote with your wallet I really feel like this is a cop-out. In order for this to have any effect at all you would need a huge amount of people to be doing this simultaneously or at least within the same time frame. One person will not, in the grand scheme of things, cause any sort of change. At smaller levels one person or a couple can always be replaced by new people getting into the product. They are only thing changing in this scenario is their own focus and directing their energy elsewhere. 2. No other options Other than what I will touch on last, what other options are there for people to vent their frustration? Ones that would truly get someone, anyone, of some worth to take notice of the issues with the product. I do not see what other action someone could take, on their own, that would have a large enough effect. E-mails or letters just get sent to someone who's job it is to reply back with pre-scripted ( the irony is palpable) responses. Phone calls to a customer service department/HR/equivalent would be met with similar results. Same with trying to contact someone via social-media and chances are they could be working you if they are talent in some capacity. Fans don't have the ability to create competition to force WWE's hand like WCW once did, any the companies who currently exist who could have any chance at doing that are either: Content with what they are doing on their own, don't have the talent,resources, TV distribution to compete on large scale level, have working relationships with WWE, or are Impact Wrestling. So again I ask, what other solution is there? besides... 3. Chanting in solidarity This is only reasonable, obtainable and preformable action that people have, which also happens to be the most direct. From your own mouth, to the company and either they are forced to take notice or they make some bullshit "most polarizing superstar" obfuscation because they are aggravatingly stubborn. We know that it can work, because the re-direction of the women's division is a result of it. (Getting them to not f*** up after they did something right, well, that's another problem altogether.) Maybe I am in the minority, but I have no personal connection to this company, in the sense that whether this company succeeds or fails, it doesn't affect me. (Now, this doesn't mean, that I don't like WWE or that I want WWE to fail. WWE is the only wrestling I watch. I am a WWE fan, and not really a wrestling fan) What does affect me is whether I am entertained or not. If I am being entertained, and this company folds, then yes, I will be saddened, but on the other hand, if I am not being entertained, and this company folds, I am not that bothered. So, taking that into consideration, if I am not enjoying the product that WWE is putting out, I will just stop watching. In the same sense, that if it was a normal TV show that was getting annoying or stupid, I would stop watching. For example, I used to watch Bones, for a couple of years, until the lead character just became very irritating and inconsistent. I eventually reached a point, when I stopped watching. Now, I don't remember exactly, but the show got cancelled a couple of years later, and that didn't affect me. On the other hand, I loved Human Target, and when that got cancelled, I was affected. So, my question is, why must we demand the company listen to us? If we don't like its product, why do we insist that our opinion make a difference? On a side note, I think wrestling, especially WWE, is the only form of entertainment, which has a significant portion of its fans hate the product, and not only still watch it but follow it & talk about it, currently. No other shows has its fans disliking the show, shitting on it, and then still watching it. For example, most people who watch Game of Thrones enjoy it, and don't actively bash it. They might dislike a season or two, but eventually they either stop watching, or they start enjoying it again. We, as wrestling fans, have disliked this product for years, and we still continue to come back. When is enough enough? You assume that people who complain about what they complain about hate 100% of what they see though. These same fans condemn one thing in one conversation, rant and rave about what they are entertained by in another. |
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Post by King Boo on Jul 19, 2018 2:20:22 GMT -5
I don't know if the comments I'm going to make have been brought up or not (I don't have time at the moment to go back through the thread)but here are some thoughts: 1. The old adage of if you don't like it, don't watch it/pay/vote with your wallet I really feel like this is a cop-out. In order for this to have any effect at all you would need a huge amount of people to be doing this simultaneously or at least within the same time frame. One person will not, in the grand scheme of things, cause any sort of change. At smaller levels one person or a couple can always be replaced by new people getting into the product. They are only thing changing in this scenario is their own focus and directing their energy elsewhere. 2. No other options Other than what I will touch on last, what other options are there for people to vent their frustration? Ones that would truly get someone, anyone, of some worth to take notice of the issues with the product. I do not see what other action someone could take, on their own, that would have a large enough effect. E-mails or letters just get sent to someone who's job it is to reply back with pre-scripted ( the irony is palpable) responses. Phone calls to a customer service department/HR/equivalent would be met with similar results. Same with trying to contact someone via social-media and chances are they could be working you if they are talent in some capacity. Fans don't have the ability to create competition to force WWE's hand like WCW once did, any the companies who currently exist who could have any chance at doing that are either: Content with what they are doing on their own, don't have the talent,resources, TV distribution to compete on large scale level, have working relationships with WWE, or are Impact Wrestling. So again I ask, what other solution is there? besides... 3. Chanting in solidarity This is only reasonable, obtainable and preformable action that people have, which also happens to be the most direct. From your own mouth, to the company and either they are forced to take notice or they make some bullshit "most polarizing superstar" obfuscation because they are aggravatingly stubborn. We know that it can work, because the re-direction of the women's division is a result of it. (Getting them to not f*** up after they did something right, well, that's another problem altogether.) Maybe I am in the minority, but I have no personal connection to this company, in the sense that whether this company succeeds or fails, it doesn't affect me. (Now, this doesn't mean, that I don't like WWE or that I want WWE to fail. WWE is the only wrestling I watch. I am a WWE fan, and not really a wrestling fan) What does affect me is whether I am entertained or not. If I am being entertained, and this company folds, then yes, I will be saddened, but on the other hand, if I am not being entertained, and this company folds, I am not that bothered. So, taking that into consideration, if I am not enjoying the product that WWE is putting out, I will just stop watching. In the same sense, that if it was a normal TV show that was getting annoying or stupid, I would stop watching. For example, I used to watch Bones, for a couple of years, until the lead character just became very irritating and inconsistent. I eventually reached a point, when I stopped watching. Now, I don't remember exactly, but the show got cancelled a couple of years later, and that didn't affect me. On the other hand, I loved Human Target, and when that got cancelled, I was affected. So, my question is, why must we demand the company listen to us? If we don't like its product, why do we insist that our opinion make a difference? On a side note, I think wrestling, especially WWE, is the only form of entertainment, which has a significant portion of its fans hate the product, and not only still watch it but follow it & talk about it, currently. No other shows has its fans disliking the show, shitting on it, and then still watching it. For example, most people who watch Game of Thrones enjoy it, and don't actively bash it. They might dislike a season or two, but eventually they either stop watching, or they start enjoying it again. We, as wrestling fans, have disliked this product for years, and we still continue to come back. When is enough enough? This is patently false. Hate-watching is very much so a thing that a lot of people do with a lot of different programming. |
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Malcolm
Grimlock
Wanted something done about the color of his ring.
The only good thing in my life is Sonic the Hedgehog and that is ******* sad
Posts: 13,512
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Post by Malcolm on Jul 19, 2018 2:21:11 GMT -5
People "blaming" fans aren't twisting themselves into knots to defend WWE considering these posters also have grievances with WWE. They probably just don't think that buying tickets with the sole intention to crap on the product(assuming that this is what they're doing which I doubt since tickets aren't cheap) is not an effective way to send WWE a message since it doesn't seem to be working.
On the other hand it also seems that not buying tickets don't seem to make a dent, either since they have enough casual fans to keep them afloat.
It seems like no matter what, WWE keeps making money. It feels like a damned if you do and damned if you don't thing
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Post by King Boo on Jul 19, 2018 2:22:52 GMT -5
People "blaming" fans aren't twisting themselves into knots to defend WWE, they probably just don't think that buying tickets with the sole intention to crap on the product(assuming that this is what they're doing which I doubt since tickets aren't cheap) is not an effective way to send WWE a message since it doesn't seem to be working.On the other hand it also seems that not buying tickets don't seem to make a dent, either since they have enough casual fans to keep them afloat. It seems like no matter what, WWE keeps making money. It feels like a damned if you do and damned if you don't thing No one is doing this. If that's their argument, it's baseless and you yourself even doubt it. So, yeah, if that's the crux of someone's argument, it's knot twisting. |
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Malcolm
Grimlock
Wanted something done about the color of his ring.
The only good thing in my life is Sonic the Hedgehog and that is ******* sad
Posts: 13,512
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Post by Malcolm on Jul 19, 2018 2:26:17 GMT -5
People "blaming" fans aren't twisting themselves into knots to defend WWE, they probably just don't think that buying tickets with the sole intention to crap on the product(assuming that this is what they're doing which I doubt since tickets aren't cheap) is not an effective way to send WWE a message since it doesn't seem to be working.On the other hand it also seems that not buying tickets don't seem to make a dent, either since they have enough casual fans to keep them afloat. It seems like no matter what, WWE keeps making money. It feels like a damned if you do and damned if you don't thing No one is doing this. If that's their argument, it's baseless and you yourself even doubt it. So, yeah, if that's the crux of someone's argument, it's knot twisting. I do have my doubts, but people are strange creatures. |
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Nikki Heyman
Fry's dog Seymour
EXTREEEEEME Pony Manager
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Post by Nikki Heyman on Jul 19, 2018 2:27:35 GMT -5
No one is doing this. If that's their argument, it's baseless and you yourself even doubt it. So, yeah, if that's the crux of someone's argument, it's knot twisting. I do have my doubts, but people are strange creatures. "Hate-watching", even for free, is strange business. |
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Post by King Boo on Jul 19, 2018 2:30:59 GMT -5
No one is doing this. If that's their argument, it's baseless and you yourself even doubt it. So, yeah, if that's the crux of someone's argument, it's knot twisting. I do have my doubts, but people are strange creatures. Saying that people are strange doesn't make that belief any more true or fair. I've been a part of a crowd that was mightily displeased at the show presented to them and do you know one of the things they chanted? We want refunds. BECAUSE NO ONE PAID TO PURPOSELY SIT AT A SHOW THEY THOUGHT WAS SHITTY. |
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Post by deviljatt86 on Jul 19, 2018 2:41:05 GMT -5
Maybe I am in the minority, but I have no personal connection to this company, in the sense that whether this company succeeds or fails, it doesn't affect me. (Now, this doesn't mean, that I don't like WWE or that I want WWE to fail. WWE is the only wrestling I watch. I am a WWE fan, and not really a wrestling fan) What does affect me is whether I am entertained or not. If I am being entertained, and this company folds, then yes, I will be saddened, but on the other hand, if I am not being entertained, and this company folds, I am not that bothered. So, taking that into consideration, if I am not enjoying the product that WWE is putting out, I will just stop watching. In the same sense, that if it was a normal TV show that was getting annoying or stupid, I would stop watching. For example, I used to watch Bones, for a couple of years, until the lead character just became very irritating and inconsistent. I eventually reached a point, when I stopped watching. Now, I don't remember exactly, but the show got cancelled a couple of years later, and that didn't affect me. On the other hand, I loved Human Target, and when that got cancelled, I was affected. So, my question is, why must we demand the company listen to us? If we don't like its product, why do we insist that our opinion make a difference? On a side note, I think wrestling, especially WWE, is the only form of entertainment, which has a significant portion of its fans hate the product, and not only still watch it but follow it & talk about it, currently. No other shows has its fans disliking the show, shitting on it, and then still watching it. For example, most people who watch Game of Thrones enjoy it, and don't actively bash it. They might dislike a season or two, but eventually they either stop watching, or they start enjoying it again. We, as wrestling fans, have disliked this product for years, and we still continue to come back. When is enough enough? You assume that people who complain about what they complain about hate 100% of what they see though. These same fans condemn one thing in one conversation, rant and rave about what they are entertained by in another. Actually, no I am not. But I will clarify it. Unlike watching at home, if you are watching wrestling live, any point you don't like, you can get up and leave the arena, and just come back moments later. Or just play on your phone. Don't react. I recently went to a concert, where there 5 different singers, each given about 30 minutes. I disliked one of the singers, so when she came on stage, I just walked out. I am not going to waste my time by sitting there being miserable, nor am I going to ruin the experience for others. I went outside, and got something to eat, and talked with a friend. Now, I doubt me walking out affected her, but my point is to affect her, it is to enjoy myself. I think we as a society have grown, through social media and other reasons, to want everyone to know our anger, when the rest of society as a whole, doesn't really care. If we are not enjoying something, everyone must know we are not enjoying it. Now, I apologize for generalizing about fans and society, but I am taking what is shown to be the majority. Happiness and indifference is not as loud as anger, in my opinion |
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Post by deviljatt86 on Jul 19, 2018 2:44:59 GMT -5
Maybe I am in the minority, but I have no personal connection to this company, in the sense that whether this company succeeds or fails, it doesn't affect me. (Now, this doesn't mean, that I don't like WWE or that I want WWE to fail. WWE is the only wrestling I watch. I am a WWE fan, and not really a wrestling fan) What does affect me is whether I am entertained or not. If I am being entertained, and this company folds, then yes, I will be saddened, but on the other hand, if I am not being entertained, and this company folds, I am not that bothered. So, taking that into consideration, if I am not enjoying the product that WWE is putting out, I will just stop watching. In the same sense, that if it was a normal TV show that was getting annoying or stupid, I would stop watching. For example, I used to watch Bones, for a couple of years, until the lead character just became very irritating and inconsistent. I eventually reached a point, when I stopped watching. Now, I don't remember exactly, but the show got cancelled a couple of years later, and that didn't affect me. On the other hand, I loved Human Target, and when that got cancelled, I was affected. So, my question is, why must we demand the company listen to us? If we don't like its product, why do we insist that our opinion make a difference? On a side note, I think wrestling, especially WWE, is the only form of entertainment, which has a significant portion of its fans hate the product, and not only still watch it but follow it & talk about it, currently. No other shows has its fans disliking the show, shitting on it, and then still watching it. For example, most people who watch Game of Thrones enjoy it, and don't actively bash it. They might dislike a season or two, but eventually they either stop watching, or they start enjoying it again. We, as wrestling fans, have disliked this product for years, and we still continue to come back. When is enough enough? This is patently false. Hate-watching is very much so a thing that a lot of people do with a lot of different programming. In that case, I admit I was wrong about the highlighted portion. I myself have never been exposed to that kind of behavior so I assumed it did not exist. My apologies, but I do have one question. During hate-watching, is anyone actively paying money to watch? Or is it like watching a TV show that hate? |
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Post by deviljatt86 on Jul 19, 2018 2:49:18 GMT -5
People "blaming" fans aren't twisting themselves into knots to defend WWE considering these posters also have grievances with WWE. They probably just don't think that buying tickets with the sole intention to crap on the product(assuming that this is what they're doing which I doubt since tickets aren't cheap) is not an effective way to send WWE a message since it doesn't seem to be working. On the other hand it also seems that not buying tickets don't seem to make a dent, either since they have enough casual fans to keep them afloat. It seems like no matter what, WWE keeps making money. It feels like a damned if you do and damned if you don't thing My only question is, again why are we focused so much on sending a message to the company? Like I said earlier, if WWE is making money, good for them. Let them make all the money they can, regardless of whether or not, I am enjoying the product. I am not going to say, a company should lose money, just so they will tailor their product to me. The most I will do is suggest it, but whether or not, they listen, is up to them. Now, if I am enjoying the product, I WANT to continue making money. |
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Post by thelonewolf527 on Jul 19, 2018 2:55:33 GMT -5
Some fans are part of the problem now. My HMO has been simple from the beginning, you give things a chance. Some live crowds have shown me over the last year or so that they have no concern about this at times and have chosen to pre-conclude that a match isn't worth their time to even try and care. The main event last week was a different story because it was the guy they wanted main eventing and they STILL had to be annoying during it. No one has to react a certain way, but we need to be real here and at least establish that this issue doesn't exist in any other form of live entertainment. I hate the notion of "I paid money months ago so I can react how I want if I don't like it." You can be mad, you can boo, you can be pouty, but it feels to me like we've gone from "I'm voicing my displeasure of this particular moment" to "Look at me voicing my displeasure of this particular moment" and that's not WWE's fault. Hell, I'm starting to feel that a good portion of these pay-per-view crowds (you know who I'm referring to) are past the point of shitting on Roman matches because of his spot but now do it out of his sheer existence. Well what is WWE supposed to do there? Take the guy off TV for no reason when he's still one of their biggest draws whether anyone's thrilled about that or not? It's a lose/lose for everyone. But these reactions aren't just randomly happening, we've seen a slow progression leading us to this point in the last few years. Take Roman Reigns for an example of a guy who's getting the worst of it. In 2015 the guys was getting solid boos from the crowd, you didn't see this more current indifference. Vince McMahon looked at that and said to himself, 'this is fine, let's keep doing the same thing.' Eventually the anger turns to indifference and you get crowds more focused on entertaining themselves. At the same time they slowly started increasing the lengths of their shows, beginning with the larger ones, and ending with the whole lot getting at least an extra hour of content. Scant few of these shows have had strong endings, the crowd is either out of it, or they seem to lose patience, or even just up and leave. Again, Vince McMahon saw this and said to himself, 'this is fine.' This is not something we've seen before to this extent. You'd see the odd "bizarro world" crowd every now and then, but now it's happening every big show, all across the country. There's no common variable to argue it's there's a specific trend on their side. So when you make an allusion to referring to some specific section of fans, it doesn't have any weight. So like, if the fans as a whole are now the problem, what's the solution? Stop letting them into the arenas? I've said it again and again, but it just doesn't make any sense to point at them and say they're the root of the problem. I didn't say fans as a whole are the problem, I'm saying they're at least part of the problem. Take Extreme Rules for example. Outside of the two women's matches, nothing on the show was all that bad, it was just a long show with A LOT of stuff on it. But I'm seeing people react as if it was one of the worst shows of all time, hell Bryan Alvarez compared it to 2000 WCW and it's not even CLOSE to that level of bad. Too many people are going into shows under the assumption of "Most of this is going to be shit" but they still go anyway. They still watch on tv anyway. Yes ratings are down a bit but WWE seems to be more popular as a brand nowadays than in the last couple of years so it's clear people are still interested. WWE has no obligation to do things any way other than the way that they want to in the same way that the fans have no obligation to enjoy it. The difference is the fans have no obligation to BUY the product either, yet some almost seem to believe that they had no choice but to attend an event with their behavior at shows. You had no obligation to buy the ticket. You had no obligation to go to the show. You chose to go. If you don't enjoy it that's fine, that's your right because you paid money so you want to see a good show. But if you see tickets on sale for a show that in your mind is "Dogshit Spectacular 2018" and you still buy the ticket and you still go to the show, that's entirely on you for attending. In the same way that I wouldn't expect someone who hates baseball to buy tickets to the Yankees. If they did and then started chanting about other sports and random shit, they'd probably get yelled at by security for being annoying. Encouraging fan participation should have its limits. I don't think WWE should have to come out and say "We want our fans to participate, just try to have fun and don't be a dick." That should be implied. |
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Post by thelonewolf527 on Jul 19, 2018 2:57:44 GMT -5
This is patently false. Hate-watching is very much so a thing that a lot of people do with a lot of different programming. In that case, I admit I was wrong about the highlighted portion. I myself have never been exposed to that kind of behavior so I assumed it did not exist. My apologies, but I do have one question. During hate-watching, is anyone actively paying money to watch? Or is it like watching a TV show that hate? I think the difference is the forms of entertainment you mentioned aren't in front of a live studio audience with authentic reactions. If Big Bang Theory filmed an episode and people showed up just to boo all the jokes and throw shit around in the audience, they'd 100% be thrown out. But I don't think anyone really goes to live shows for anything that they assume from the getgo is going to suck besides wrestling. |
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Malcolm
Grimlock
Wanted something done about the color of his ring.
The only good thing in my life is Sonic the Hedgehog and that is ******* sad
Posts: 13,512
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Post by Malcolm on Jul 19, 2018 3:00:23 GMT -5
But seriously, though, why is it that it's never okay to criticize crowds except when they're NOT chanting or cheering and sitting on their hands? I've seen posts that bash on silent crowds get over 50 likes. I mean it seems like people get a knee-jerk reaction whenever someone airs their grievance with a crowd saying that they're not obligated to cheer for the product and are just showing their displeasure, but when a crowd shows their displeasure a different way(in silence), it's wrong?
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MAGGLE
Dennis Stamp
Sigs/Avatars cannot exceed 1MB
Posts: 4,511
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Post by MAGGLE on Jul 19, 2018 5:11:19 GMT -5
I think everyone that pays for something that they dislike is part of the problem.
You don´t like 80% of the roster? Maybe, just maybe don´t go to the show or subscribe to the network? Wouldn´t that be a smart think to do instead of just shouting random stuff through an entire PPV while you pay 100+ Dollars to attend?
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nisidhe
Hank Scorpio
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Post by nisidhe on Jul 19, 2018 6:20:32 GMT -5
I think everyone that pays for something that they dislike is part of the problem. You don´t like 80% of the roster? Maybe, just maybe don´t go to the show or subscribe to the network? Wouldn´t that be a smart think to do instead of just shouting random stuff through an entire PPV while you pay 100+ Dollars to attend? You can't assume why people will spend money to attend live events. For many, sure, it's to enjoy (at least potentially) what's being put in front of them. However, some will spend their money to attend with the express purpose of shitting on the product and getting themselves over, particularly on PPV or on live TV. Here's the thing, though - to the immediate bottom line, both groups contribute more or less equally. Where the difference arises is in the perception of the product by those on the outside looking in. If they see an attentive and energetic audience chanting loudly and responding to what they see in the ring, they'll come away with a desire to understand what's going on and will want to come back for more. If they see an audience that's silent or otherwise not engaged with what's going on in the ring, they're not going to look further, because they'll perceive that what's going on in the ring is not important or not worth the attention. So, you have a pattern of slow attrition in which crowds grow smaller, increasingly high-income or business-oriented as companies start or increase expensing on events like this because they can afford it and for no other reason, slowly squeezing out long-term fans as they move on to other promotions or other endeavours altogether, leaving only the casuals who couldn't tell an armbar from a chocolate bar. It's tempting to blame an audience for the failure of the product - they're the most obvious evidence of a card's or match's quality. However, they didn't start the cycle of suckitude: that lies with WWE itself, and particularly its steadfast refusal to give its fans what they want - to go home happy. The worst of all this is that WWE _knows_ what has worked for them time and again - a babyface champion continuously triumphant at the end of each night. WHY? Because a babyface champion, either in winning outright or in getting the moral victory, has always brought the night to a satisfactory end and sent the fans home secure in the belief that everything in the world will be okay, because Bruno/Pedro/Bob/Hulk/Bret/Austin/The Rock/Mankind/Cena/Bryan/Finn/Goldberg won. It is too rare that that feeling happens and, when it does, it is so fleeting as to be forgettable. Is it any wonder why, now, fans have utterly lost hope? |
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Post by The Heartbreak TWERK on Jul 19, 2018 8:04:15 GMT -5
But these reactions aren't just randomly happening, we've seen a slow progression leading us to this point in the last few years. Take Roman Reigns for an example of a guy who's getting the worst of it. In 2015 the guys was getting solid boos from the crowd, you didn't see this more current indifference. Vince McMahon looked at that and said to himself, 'this is fine, let's keep doing the same thing.' Eventually the anger turns to indifference and you get crowds more focused on entertaining themselves. At the same time they slowly started increasing the lengths of their shows, beginning with the larger ones, and ending with the whole lot getting at least an extra hour of content. Scant few of these shows have had strong endings, the crowd is either out of it, or they seem to lose patience, or even just up and leave. Again, Vince McMahon saw this and said to himself, 'this is fine.' This is not something we've seen before to this extent. You'd see the odd "bizarro world" crowd every now and then, but now it's happening every big show, all across the country. There's no common variable to argue it's there's a specific trend on their side. So when you make an allusion to referring to some specific section of fans, it doesn't have any weight. So like, if the fans as a whole are now the problem, what's the solution? Stop letting them into the arenas? I've said it again and again, but it just doesn't make any sense to point at them and say they're the root of the problem. No. They are not. If the fans are chanting racist/sexist/hateful things. That's a problem. This crowd, and 99.99% crowds, are not doing this. So they aren't the problem. WWE needs to give the fans something they want to see. At all times they are performing. Period. |
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Post by BayleyTiffyCodyCenaJudyHopps on Jul 19, 2018 8:23:36 GMT -5
It's not just the TV deals in their favor, as much publicity as that gets.
WWE keeps making money because the fans can see there's actually a lot of good things in the product. They're not WCW 2000, they're not Heroes Of Wrestling, nor are they 2010/2011 TNA.
Right now, they've got one of the most talented rosters ever in their history. If they didn't then they'd be in real danger.
The issue is the stagnant writing, more so on Raw than anywhere else (Smackdown has its hiccups, but that third hour of Raw is creative death) The fans know that the product could and should be incredible with the lineup they have, but the angles don't do these performers justice.
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Allie Kitsune
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Post by Allie Kitsune on Jul 19, 2018 9:42:06 GMT -5
It's not just the TV deals in their favor, as much publicity as that gets. WWE keeps making money because the fans can see there's actually a lot of good things in the product. They're not WCW 2000, they're not Heroes Of Wrestling, nor are they 2010/2011 TNA. Right now, they've got one of the most talented rosters ever in their history. If they didn't then they'd be in real danger. The issue is the stagnant writing, more so on Raw than anywhere else (Smackdown has its hiccups, but that third hour of Raw is creative death) The fans know that the product could and should be incredible with the lineup they have, but the angles don't do these performers justice. It's double-edged. People go because they want to support the talent. But they also don't particularly enjoy the product. So you end up with some people who paid for the show with the justification that some of it goes into their favorites' paychecks, but have little faith in the overall show itself actually being that great. |
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