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Post by King Boo on Jul 19, 2018 10:50:07 GMT -5
But seriously, though, why is it that it's never okay to criticize crowds except when they're NOT chanting or cheering and sitting on their hands? I've seen posts that bash on silent crowds get over 50 likes. I mean it seems like people get a knee-jerk reaction whenever someone airs their grievance with a crowd saying that they're not obligated to cheer for the product and are just showing their displeasure, but when a crowd shows their displeasure a different way(in silence), it's wrong? This is such a BS fallacy. There's a huge difference between a crowd who stays largely silent for, say, Brock vs. Reigns at Wrestlemania and one who has a good show put on and you hear crickets and we all know it. No one is criticizing crowds who are fairly and rightfully silent when they're presented crap. Actually unfair crowds get raked over the coals all the time. "You suck Cena/Bryan"? Got slammed. People who make Benoit chants? Slammed. Anything prejudiced? Slammed. Booing because you wanted to spend time at a wrestling show watching your favorites and instead getting utter horseshit shoveled your way? That's not on the fans; that's on WWE. |
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Post by The Heartbreak TWERK on Jul 19, 2018 10:54:24 GMT -5
But seriously, though, why is it that it's never okay to criticize crowds except when they're NOT chanting or cheering and sitting on their hands? I've seen posts that bash on silent crowds get over 50 likes. I mean it seems like people get a knee-jerk reaction whenever someone airs their grievance with a crowd saying that they're not obligated to cheer for the product and are just showing their displeasure, but when a crowd shows their displeasure a different way(in silence), it's wrong? This is such a BS fallacy. There's a huge difference between a crowd who stays largely silent for, say, Brock vs. Reigns at Wrestlemania and one who has a good show put on and you hear crickets and we all know it. No one is criticizing crowds who are fairly and rightfully silent when they're presented crap. Actually unfair crowds get raked over the coals all the time. "You suck Cena/Bryan"? Got slammed. People who make Benoit chants? Slammed. Anything prejudiced? Slammed. Booing because you wanted to spend time at a wrestling show watching your favorites and instead getting utter horseshit shoveled your way? That's not on the fans; that's on WWE. This is the absolute truth and summation of the entire thread. I don't know why we keep going back and forth on this. Honestly it just seems like the same people want to blame anyone but WWE for problems WWE creates for themselves. If there's 20,000 people telling you that you're wrong and you're the only one screaming that you're right, chances are you're actually wrong... |
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chrom
Backup Wench
Master of the rare undecuple post
Posts: 87,908 
Member is Online
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Post by chrom on Jul 19, 2018 11:11:00 GMT -5
How long until Kevin Dunn comes out and tells us we're not fans but cast members?
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Post by The Heartbreak TWERK on Jul 19, 2018 11:13:05 GMT -5
How long until Kevin Dunn comes out and tells us we're not fans but cast members? That would require Kevin Dunn to appear in a public place. He likes to hide in the $12 Million Dollar Truck where only a small circle of blinded slaves can serve him. |
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Futureraven: Beelzebruv
Bill S. Preston, Esq.
The Ultimate Arbiter of Right And Wrong
Spent half my life here, God help me
Posts: 15,535
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Post by Futureraven: Beelzebruv on Jul 19, 2018 11:13:54 GMT -5
How long until Kevin Dunn comes out and tells us we're not fans but cast members? As long as we get to do this.  |
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Jul 19, 2018 11:16:27 GMT -5
I don't know why these threads exist sometimes......I thought Vince fired all of us years ago...
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Malcolm
Grimlock
Wanted something done about the color of his ring.
The only good thing in my life is Sonic the Hedgehog and that is ******* sad
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Post by Malcolm on Jul 19, 2018 11:24:57 GMT -5
But seriously, though, why is it that it's never okay to criticize crowds except when they're NOT chanting or cheering and sitting on their hands? I've seen posts that bash on silent crowds get over 50 likes. I mean it seems like people get a knee-jerk reaction whenever someone airs their grievance with a crowd saying that they're not obligated to cheer for the product and are just showing their displeasure, but when a crowd shows their displeasure a different way(in silence), it's wrong? This is such a BS fallacy. There's a huge difference between a crowd who stays largely silent for, say, Brock vs. Reigns at Wrestlemania and one who has a good show put on and you hear crickets and we all know it. No one is criticizing crowds who are fairly and rightfully silent when they're presented crap. Actually unfair crowds get raked over the coals all the time. "You suck Cena/Bryan"? Got slammed. People who make Benoit chants? Slammed. Anything prejudiced? Slammed. Booing because you wanted to spend time at a wrestling show watching your favorites and instead getting utter horseshit shoveled your way? That's not on the fans; that's on WWE. Fair enough. I'm wrong and I'm just gonna stop before I make an even bigger ass of myself. |
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Post by King Boo on Jul 19, 2018 11:30:32 GMT -5
This is such a BS fallacy. There's a huge difference between a crowd who stays largely silent for, say, Brock vs. Reigns at Wrestlemania and one who has a good show put on and you hear crickets and we all know it. No one is criticizing crowds who are fairly and rightfully silent when they're presented crap. Actually unfair crowds get raked over the coals all the time. "You suck Cena/Bryan"? Got slammed. People who make Benoit chants? Slammed. Anything prejudiced? Slammed. Booing because you wanted to spend time at a wrestling show watching your favorites and instead getting utter horseshit shoveled your way? That's not on the fans; that's on WWE. Fair enough. I'm wrong and I'm just gonna stop before I make an even bigger ass of myself. Aw, it's all good, broski. I didn't think you were an ass.  |
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Post by HMARK Center on Jul 19, 2018 11:32:01 GMT -5
However, as said earlier, my red line of "I'm done supporting this product" is going to vary from everyone else's; I might argue that some moments should have convinced more people to stop supporting WWE (Raw walkout angle, anyone?), and I do get kind of annoyed when people say how sick they are of WWE but steadfastly refuse to give other, alternative promotions a chance, but it's ultimately subjective. One thing I'll say here is that I think you see this because, for the most part, one can continue to more or less keep up with WWE without having to spend any money. Not so much with most other promotions. Oh yeah, that's a totally different situation; I'm fortunate enough to be in a situation where I'm making alright money, but recently I thought about getting AJPW.tv and had to stop and think about how I already had NJPW World, Netflix, MLB.tv, Amazon Prime, and I even spent $40 so I could watch/support Lucha Underground on iTunes since I don't get El Rey. I'm one of the lucky ones; for some people, even a $9 a month cost for NJPW World can be something that has to be considered and weighed, and somebody in that situation deserves all the slack in the world on questions of spending resources. I'm talking more about people who'll go on incessantly about what they don't like about WWE, keep watching regardless, but outright pooh-pooh any product that isn't WWE or isn't like WWE, or judge and shit talk it based on one match/moment/description. Around here we thankfully don't have too many people like that (the "wars" era was long enough ago that we've all mostly moved on, I imagine), but you still see it sometimes around the ol' interwebz. |
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segaz
Samurai Cop
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Post by segaz on Jul 19, 2018 15:16:41 GMT -5
People who say "stop watching it, vote with your wallet", do they know what they are saying? In order for it to be 'really hurting WWE', you'd have to get a huge amount of people to do that, and that would be a runaway snowball effect. Good wrestling and writing alone these days might not be enough to reverse such a trend.
Consider the WWE in 1995/1996. Yes the product had a lot of dumb points, but it did have some good moments also. Yet, without the WCW kickstarting the live nitro movement and the NWO in particular making wrestling 'cool' again, who's to say good writing and wrestling alone would have turned WWE around? There won't always be an easy culture wave to ride, or even a megastar in Rock/Austin to thrust eyes ok the product. (I'd argue there's only one real megastar in todays WWE....and even he isn't on the level of Rock or Austin)
My point is, once people REALLY start turning away from wrestling, there is no easy fix.
So maybe if we want a change, we should continue to petition who we want, stay silent for those we don't, and only then when WWE refuse to listen, force them to go into survival mode.
Waddya mean "that's what you've been doing for the last three years"?
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Nikki Heyman
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Post by Nikki Heyman on Jul 19, 2018 18:19:03 GMT -5
I don't know why these threads exist sometimes......I thought Vince fired all of us years ago... He never sent the severance checks - or at least I never got mine! |
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Post by EoE: Workin On My Night Cheese on Jul 19, 2018 18:27:36 GMT -5
I don't know why these threads exist sometimes......I thought Vince fired all of us years ago... He never sent the severance checks - or at least I never got mine! The words “Heyman” and “checks” have never really went well together, have they? |
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Post by EoE: Workin On My Night Cheese on Jul 19, 2018 22:54:39 GMT -5
Seriously though, I miss when the company/fan relationship was more co-operative and less combative. It’s not impossible to fix, but it needs a lot more than just not pushing Reigns or having the good guys win at the end of every single episode.
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Lupin the Third
Patti Mayonnaise
I'm sorry.....I love you. *boot to the head*--3rd most culpable in the jixing of NXT, D'oh!
Join the Dark Order....
Posts: 36,429
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Post by Lupin the Third on Jul 20, 2018 0:16:57 GMT -5
How long until Kevin Dunn comes out and tells us we're not fans but cast members? Where the f*** is my backpay then?! I ain't doing this for free!! |
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Post by The Barber on Jul 20, 2018 7:03:06 GMT -5
"Fans are the problem" is a useless argument to bring up, because there's no viable solution to it. It's like complaining that too many bears shit in the woods. What are you going to do about We’re here! We’re queer! We don’t want anymore bears! I love it when they ride in the little cars, though.
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Allie Kitsune
Crow T. Robot
Always Feelin' Foxy.
HaHa U FaLL 4 LaVa TriK
Posts: 46,933
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Post by Allie Kitsune on Jul 20, 2018 7:19:29 GMT -5
Seriously though, I miss when the company/fan relationship was more co-operative and less combative. It’s not impossible to fix, but it needs a lot more than just not pushing Reigns or having the good guys win at the end of every single episode. It's going to take things that aren't ever going to happen during Vince's lifetime. Because Vince isn't leaving until he's dead. And even then, I don't know if people trust Stephanie to really change the business so the "carny" or "wrestling bubble" aspects that the present-day audience disapproves of are done away with. |
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Post by Toilet Paper Roll on Jul 20, 2018 7:43:13 GMT -5
To me right now watching WWE is like watching a sports team you've followed your whole life through the ups and downs and right now it's in a horrible down. a team that's being terribly mismanaged with out of touch ownership focusing more on marketing and concessions than winning while losing games and full of guys who they should be doing better with.
It's not that fans hate the product it's that they're loyal, have been loyal and want to enjoy the product.
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