Nr1Humanoid
Hank Scorpio
Is the #3 humanoid at best.
Posts: 5,564
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Post by Nr1Humanoid on Feb 6, 2019 10:40:21 GMT -5
Considering it would suck the fun out of the match, count on WWE to do it.
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Post by theironyuppie on Feb 6, 2019 10:56:15 GMT -5
In Charlotte's mind she has to beat Ronda and Becky to return to her previous place at the top of the Women's division. She's not going to settle for Asuka.
Right! This character doesn't make sense settling for Asuka. (Plus the fact that WWE has made no effort whatsoever to protect that match given how much they're running it on house shows.)
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Post by Final Countdown Jones on Feb 6, 2019 11:00:07 GMT -5
It's smart. The more fans dislike Charlotte the more they're going to throw her into the match. It's to a point where they know fans hate it so much that they had Nia say she should be thrown into the match at WM on Raw a few days ago. If Charlotte absolutely must be added to the match, a point about which I'm not entirely convinced, I'd rather she work as a heel within the context of the story and not because of the meta-textual aspect that Charlotte, as a wrestling character and performer, has been overexposed by WWE's booking over the past few years. It'd be like making X-Pac the WWF champion in 2001 right before Wrestlemania. Yeah, the fans hated him at the time, but not in a kayfabe, "yes, you are an excellent heel in terms of the performance of your character's psychological depth, realism, and actions, and we are rewarding you by booing you appropriately given the demands of the narrative" sort of way. At what point does Charlotte's heat come from being 'Charlotte heat', a la 'X-Pac heat', and not 'heel heat' specifically? If WWE is deciding to add her to the match because of the former than the latter, then I think that is a poorly thought-out decision, creatively speaking. Charlotte's whole character evolution from down-trodded face people rejected to completely snapping and following in Becky's footsteps to being a violent, crazed wreck claiming Becky owes her the world is as heel as you can get. It's some of the best actual character writing WWE has managed years, and with Becky being treated as the unquestioned protagonist of this story without making Ronda full-blown heel, she provides some decidedly unambiguous black to what would otherwise be a fairly morally gray story of tweener Becky against "unlikable face douche???" Ronda. Charlotte is the combustible element, the dangerous and reckless lunatic who unlike Ronda isn't looking for a straight-up fight, she's looking to claw her way back to the throne and she'll destroy everyone to get there. A dark mirror of Becky's tactics and self-preservatory nature who can actually hit her back, which is vital when you have a champion playing by the book. You don't need to look metatextual here at all to see how Charlotte figures into this as a heel and I'll be honest with you, as someone who sits around complaining all the time WWE's writing is horrible as a professional writer deeply offended by just how bad it is, this is some of the strongest and most interesting storytelling they have managed in years, and it needs Charlotte there to work properly.
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Dub H
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Post by Dub H on Feb 6, 2019 11:32:01 GMT -5
If Charlotte absolutely must be added to the match, a point about which I'm not entirely convinced, I'd rather she work as a heel within the context of the story and not because of the meta-textual aspect that Charlotte, as a wrestling character and performer, has been overexposed by WWE's booking over the past few years. It'd be like making X-Pac the WWF champion in 2001 right before Wrestlemania. Yeah, the fans hated him at the time, but not in a kayfabe, "yes, you are an excellent heel in terms of the performance of your character's psychological depth, realism, and actions, and we are rewarding you by booing you appropriately given the demands of the narrative" sort of way. At what point does Charlotte's heat come from being 'Charlotte heat', a la 'X-Pac heat', and not 'heel heat' specifically? If WWE is deciding to add her to the match because of the former than the latter, then I think that is a poorly thought-out decision, creatively speaking. Charlotte's whole character evolution from down-trodded face people rejected to completely snapping and following in Becky's footsteps to being a violent, crazed wreck claiming Becky owes her the world is as heel as you can get. It's some of the best actual character writing WWE has managed years, and with Becky being treated as the unquestioned protagonist of this story without making Ronda full-blown heel, she provides some decidedly unambiguous black to what would otherwise be a fairly morally gray story of tweener Becky against "unlikable face douche???" Ronda. Charlotte is the combustible element, the dangerous and reckless lunatic who unlike Ronda isn't looking for a straight-up fight, she's looking to claw her way back to the throne and she'll destroy everyone to get there. A dark mirror of Becky's tactics and self-preservatory nature who can actually hit her back, which is vital when you have a champion playing by the book. You don't need to look metatextual here at all to see how Charlotte figures into this as a heel and I'll be honest with you, as someone who sits around complaining all the time WWE's writing is horrible as a professional writer deeply offended by just how bad it is, this is some of the strongest and most interesting storytelling they have managed in years, and it needs Charlotte there to work properly. But to speak in storytelling terms, the story needs Charlotte in the middle,but she is Becky's "catalyst" , the obstacle that keeps trying to interfere with her and that molds Becky in who she is today and that she has get rid off to achieve the final act/big bad
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TGM
Hank Scorpio
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Post by TGM on Feb 6, 2019 11:36:05 GMT -5
lol who's voting yes?
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Post by Final Countdown Jones on Feb 6, 2019 11:38:31 GMT -5
Charlotte's whole character evolution from down-trodded face people rejected to completely snapping and following in Becky's footsteps to being a violent, crazed wreck claiming Becky owes her the world is as heel as you can get. It's some of the best actual character writing WWE has managed years, and with Becky being treated as the unquestioned protagonist of this story without making Ronda full-blown heel, she provides some decidedly unambiguous black to what would otherwise be a fairly morally gray story of tweener Becky against "unlikable face douche???" Ronda. Charlotte is the combustible element, the dangerous and reckless lunatic who unlike Ronda isn't looking for a straight-up fight, she's looking to claw her way back to the throne and she'll destroy everyone to get there. A dark mirror of Becky's tactics and self-preservatory nature who can actually hit her back, which is vital when you have a champion playing by the book. You don't need to look metatextual here at all to see how Charlotte figures into this as a heel and I'll be honest with you, as someone who sits around complaining all the time WWE's writing is horrible as a professional writer deeply offended by just how bad it is, this is some of the strongest and most interesting storytelling they have managed in years, and it needs Charlotte there to work properly. But to speak in storytelling terms, the story needs Charlotte in the middle,but she is Becky's "catalyst" , the obstacle that keeps trying to interfere with her and that molds Becky in who she is today and that she has get rid off to achieve the final act/big bad The problem is that wrestling doesn't really work that way. WWE's perpetual nature means that things have to operate in different terms than that, but also I think she's the important obstacle to make the Ronda feud more interesting. Ronda is death on the mic and unless they feel like turning her ultra slimeball heel, Becky needs a better foil than that. In so many ways, Charlotte isn't just the obstacle, she's the main emotional hook of the story, she's what drove Becky to this. You don't make your secondary antagonist the one with all the emotional weight and then the big climax is just "someone in the way" and that's what Ronda is here. Let Charlotte be a continued presence and an obstacle with her own motivations and unfinished business with both of them, and you create a climax capable of so much more than if Ronda and Becky just fought one on one rather disliking each other. It gives it stakes and it gives Charlotte the chance to be an obstacle at the climax of the story rather than a month out from the story as it would otherwise be if they fought at Fast Lane. A month of Ronda/Becky promos would be the least exciting way to build this feud, and moreover, everyone is so tightly involved with everyone else right now that disentangling their relations or saying Becky vanquishes Charlotte and then Ronda never even broaches resolving their issues just leaves threads dangling to an unsatisfying conclusion. WWE is also structured in a very ensemble cast kind of way, and so the story needs to be looked at with that in mind; each character is a moving piece with their own things going on here rather than one protagonist being "the show", and honestly when WWE forgets that and books to one character is when the show becomes a trash fire.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Feb 6, 2019 11:43:52 GMT -5
Considering it would suck the fun out of the match, count on WWE to do it. Not everything WWE does is “sucking fun” from anything nor do they do it to piss us off and adding Charlotte arguably adds stakes to the match and gives Becky something to overcome on top of her knee injury.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Feb 6, 2019 11:46:01 GMT -5
In Charlotte's mind she has to beat Ronda and Becky to return to her previous place at the top of the Women's division. She's not going to settle for Asuka.
Right! This character doesn't make sense settling for Asuka. (Plus the fact that WWE has made no effort whatsoever to protect that match given how much they're running it on house shows.)
Yeah, and I honestly think the only reason why people are saying Asuka is to just see her get her win back when she arguably already beat Charlotte at TLC for the women’s title. The mad queen character isn’t just going to randomly take her losses, get over Becky, her long term rival, taking her spot and just go after Asuka lol
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Dub H
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Post by Dub H on Feb 6, 2019 11:50:16 GMT -5
But to speak in storytelling terms, the story needs Charlotte in the middle,but she is Becky's "catalyst" , the obstacle that keeps trying to interfere with her and that molds Becky in who she is today and that she has get rid off to achieve the final act/big bad The problem is that wrestling doesn't really work that way. WWE's perpetual nature means that things have to operate in different terms than that, but also I think she's the important obstacle to make the Ronda feud more interesting. Ronda is death on the mic and unless they feel like turning her ultra slimeball heel, Becky needs a better foil than that. In so many ways, Charlotte isn't just the obstacle, she's the main emotional hook of the story, she's what drove Becky to this. You don't make your secondary antagonist the one with all the emotional weight and then the big climax is just "someone in the way" and that's what Ronda is here. Let Charlotte be a continued presence and an obstacle with her own motivations and unfinished business with both of them, and you create a climax capable of so much more than if Ronda and Becky just fought one on one rather disliking each other. It gives it stakes and it gives Charlotte the chance to be an obstacle at the climax of the story rather than a month out from the story as it would otherwise be if they fought at Fast Lane. A month of Ronda/Becky promos would be the least exciting way to build this feud, and moreover, everyone is so tightly involved with everyone else right now that disentangling their relations or saying Becky vanquishes Charlotte and then Ronda never even broaches resolving their issues just leaves threads dangling to an unsatisfying conclusion. WWE is also structured in a very ensemble cast kind of way, and so the story needs to be looked at with that in mind; each character is a moving piece with their own things going on here rather than one protagonist being "the show", and honestly when WWE forgets that and books to one character is when the show becomes a trash fire. It doesnt need to be a month of rhond abecky promos. But Charlotte all did her important job that is being the cog that moved this whole story. The story is already moving past this point and at WM is overstaying its welcome by a bunch.
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The Unconquered Sun
King Koopa
He has no pants! What a heathen!
Lord of Storms and Kittens!
Posts: 11,554
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Post by The Unconquered Sun on Feb 6, 2019 15:43:13 GMT -5
Not every Superman story had Lex Luthur. Hulk Hogan didn’t just wrestle Randy Savage. Optimus Prime didn’t just fight Megatron. Just because you’ve got an arch nemesis doesn’t mean you can fight other people.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Feb 6, 2019 15:48:05 GMT -5
Not every Superman story had Lex Luthur. Hulk Hogan didn’t just wrestle Randy Savage. Optimus Prime didn’t just fight Megatron. Just because you’ve got an arch nemesis doesn’t mean you can fight other people. Right, and the triple threat cements that by giving Becky her nemesis in Charlotte and her main goal in Ronda. A hero beating two of her enemies in one night is arguably a bigger accomplishment.
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Post by Starshine on Feb 6, 2019 19:30:03 GMT -5
In Charlotte's mind she has to beat Ronda and Becky to return to her previous place at the top of the Women's division. She's not going to settle for Asuka. Sure, but just because there's an angle there doesn't mean you should rush to the end of it from the start. If Charlotte is blocked from getting at Becky or Rhonda, her best bet is to settle for Asuka, the woman she beat last year. She's already got a chip on her shoulder, imagine what it would do to her character going forward if she loses due to overconfidence. All of a sudden, she's got a character arc they could work throughout the year. Alternatively say if Becky or Rhonda pin the other, we'll probably get the atypical "you didn't beat me" build for a rematch. Easily one of the most boring and uninspired of title match builds around. Interesting stuff does have to happen after Mania too. Putting all the eggs into one basket doesn't help that. The best storytelling makes use of every part of the journey (in this instance the Mania card), not just the ending (the main event). Becky/Rhonda and Asuka/Charlotte gives you two potentially strong chapters. Going instead with Becky/Charlotte/Rhonda makes that one more muddled and less focused with too many intersecting story lines undermining the importance of the others, while also losing the other potential story completely.
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Dub H
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Captain Pixel: the Game Master
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Post by Dub H on Feb 6, 2019 19:47:26 GMT -5
In Charlotte's mind she has to beat Ronda and Becky to return to her previous place at the top of the Women's division. She's not going to settle for Asuka. Sure, but just because there's an angle there doesn't mean you should rush to the end of it from the start. If Charlotte is blocked from getting at Becky or Rhonda, her best bet is to settle for Asuka, the woman she beat last year. She's already got a chip on her shoulder, imagine what it would do to her character going forward if she loses due to overconfidence. All of a sudden, she's got a character arc they could work throughout the year. Alternatively say if Becky or Rhonda pin the other, we'll probably get the atypical "you didn't beat me" build for a rematch. Easily one of the most boring and uninspired of title match builds around. Interesting stuff does have to happen after Mania too. Putting all the eggs into one basket doesn't help that. The best storytelling makes use of every part of the journey (in this instance the Mania card), not just the ending (the main event). Becky/Rhonda and Asuka/Charlotte gives you two potentially strong chapters. Going instead with Becky/Charlotte/Rhonda makes that one more muddled and less focused with too many intersecting story lines undermining the importance of the others, while also losing the other potential story completely. That is exactly where I wanted her story to go.I wanted her to face Asuka and lose at WM and go totally psycho to the division..But man you put it simple and perfectly
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Post by RI Richmark on Feb 6, 2019 22:38:52 GMT -5
In Charlotte's mind she has to beat Ronda and Becky to return to her previous place at the top of the Women's division. She's not going to settle for Asuka. Sure, but just because there's an angle there doesn't mean you should rush to the end of it from the start. If Charlotte is blocked from getting at Becky or Rhonda, her best bet is to settle for Asuka, the woman she beat last year. She's already got a chip on her shoulder, imagine what it would do to her character going forward if she loses due to overconfidence. All of a sudden, she's got a character arc they could work throughout the year. Alternatively say if Becky or Rhonda pin the other, we'll probably get the atypical "you didn't beat me" build for a rematch. Easily one of the most boring and uninspired of title match builds around. Interesting stuff does have to happen after Mania too. Putting all the eggs into one basket doesn't help that. The best storytelling makes use of every part of the journey (in this instance the Mania card), not just the ending (the main event). Becky/Rhonda and Asuka/Charlotte gives you two potentially strong chapters. Going instead with Becky/Charlotte/Rhonda makes that one more muddled and less focused with too many intersecting story lines undermining the importance of the others, while also losing the other potential story completely. With all due respect I can't see things playing out that way. Charlotte has already beaten Asuka. Charlotte has nothing to gain by fighting Asuka again. It's not just about titles at this point. Charlotte wants to add to her growing legend by being the first woman to beat Ronda in WWE. Not just for the Raw Women's Title but to stand victorious in what would be the most important women's match of all time. But Becky has taken that opportunity. Just as she's taken a lot from Charlotte these past few months. She has haunted Charlotte at every turn and now Becky has what Charlotte's sees as her chance at immortality. For Charlotte the only things that matter are finally getting one over on the woman who has vexed her all these months and reaffirming her place on top of women's wrestling by beating the unbeatable Ronda. And she can't do that fighting Asuka. Which is why by hook or by crook she'll find her way into the match. But here's another interesting thought. What if Charlotte fights her way into the match only for Becky to beat Ronda anyway? What if her chance at immortality is gone forever? What happens to her psyche then? Now I agree that after WrestleMania Becky and Charlotte need to be put on seperate brands and kept away from each other for a while. But the story needs to come to a head at WrestleMania.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Feb 6, 2019 22:55:25 GMT -5
Like, why would Charlotte want to just randomly forget about all the hell Becky put her through? It’d make no sense in storyline terms for her just brush off Becky once again taking something that, in her mind, is rightfully hers, brush off all the pot shots Ronda has given her, and brush off her wrestlemania main event just to go after Asuka.
I get why most want to see the big bad Charlotte take the L to avenge Asukas loss last year, but it just doesn’t make any sense right now. Plus, Asuka already got her win back by defeating both her and Becky at TLC for the belt. What’s done is done.
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Post by Starshine on Feb 6, 2019 23:32:03 GMT -5
Sure, but just because there's an angle there doesn't mean you should rush to the end of it from the start. If Charlotte is blocked from getting at Becky or Rhonda, her best bet is to settle for Asuka, the woman she beat last year. She's already got a chip on her shoulder, imagine what it would do to her character going forward if she loses due to overconfidence. All of a sudden, she's got a character arc they could work throughout the year. Alternatively say if Becky or Rhonda pin the other, we'll probably get the atypical "you didn't beat me" build for a rematch. Easily one of the most boring and uninspired of title match builds around. Interesting stuff does have to happen after Mania too. Putting all the eggs into one basket doesn't help that. The best storytelling makes use of every part of the journey (in this instance the Mania card), not just the ending (the main event). Becky/Rhonda and Asuka/Charlotte gives you two potentially strong chapters. Going instead with Becky/Charlotte/Rhonda makes that one more muddled and less focused with too many intersecting story lines undermining the importance of the others, while also losing the other potential story completely. With all due respect I can't see things playing out that way. Charlotte has already beaten Asuka. Charlotte has nothing to gain by fighting Asuka again. It's not just about titles at this point. Charlotte wants to add to her growing legend by being the first woman to beat Ronda in WWE. Not just for the Raw Women's Title but to stand victorious in what would be the most important women's match of all time. But Becky has taken that opportunity. Just as she's taken a lot from Charlotte these past few months. She has haunted Charlotte at every turn and now Becky has what Charlotte's sees as her chance at immortality. For Charlotte the only things that matter are finally getting one over on the woman who has vexed her all these months and reaffirming her place on top of women's wrestling by beating the unbeatable Ronda. And she can't do that fighting Asuka. Which is why by hook or by crook she'll find her way into the match. But here's another interesting thought. What if Charlotte fights her way into the match only for Becky to beat Ronda anyway? What if her chance at immortality is gone forever? What happens to her psyche then? Now I agree that after WrestleMania Becky and Charlotte need to be put on seperate brands and kept away from each other for a while. But the story needs to come to a head at WrestleMania. Why does it matter if Charlotte has nothing to gain by beating Asuka again, when the latter has everything to gain by avenging her loss on the anniversary of it one year removed? Why isn't that just as important? I don't understand why there's such a laser focus on whatever Charlotte is doing, as if she's the most important person on the show, when she's not even in the top five. Yet for some reason she has to be in this match due to these vague notions of a "chance of immortality" or whatever WWE buzzwords that we're throwing around. WWE philosophy has almost always been that the babyface beats the unbeatable obstacle one on one. Three way matches are generally reserved for transitional shows to build up to the bigger singles match. There's also never been any strong metric to suggest that fans are more interested in 3, or 4 way matches over straight up singles main events with equivalent starpower. Beating Rousey one on one means more than beating her in any other scenario when we know she's both a professionally formidable fighter, and completely focused on her opponent. It's not just beating her, it's creating a scenario where she's lost in a way where there's no doubt who was better. Especially if the rumors of her exiting are true.
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Post by Starshine on Feb 6, 2019 23:33:13 GMT -5
Like, why would Charlotte want to just randomly forget about all the hell Becky put her through? It’d make no sense in storyline terms for her just brush off Becky once again taking something that, in her mind, is rightfully hers, brush off all the pot shots Ronda has given her, and brush off her wrestlemania main event just to go after Asuka. I get why most want to see the big bad Charlotte take the L to avenge Asukas loss last year, but it just doesn’t make any sense right now. Plus, Asuka already got her win back by defeating both her and Becky at TLC for the belt. What’s done is done. Because in kayfabe management doesn't have to give her the match she wants.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Feb 6, 2019 23:50:08 GMT -5
Like, why would Charlotte want to just randomly forget about all the hell Becky put her through? It’d make no sense in storyline terms for her just brush off Becky once again taking something that, in her mind, is rightfully hers, brush off all the pot shots Ronda has given her, and brush off her wrestlemania main event just to go after Asuka. I get why most want to see the big bad Charlotte take the L to avenge Asukas loss last year, but it just doesn’t make any sense right now. Plus, Asuka already got her win back by defeating both her and Becky at TLC for the belt. What’s done is done. Yeah, people aren't looking at everyone as a whole when it comes to this. Charlotte's character isn't going to randomly forget all Becky's done to her especially when Charlotte and Becky are even going back and forth on Twitter daily. Becky isn't going to forget all that Charlotte's done to her especially (along with what I just said) given that Charlotte's been trying to cripple her recently. Ronda's not going to forgive Becky for what she's done and as for Charlotte, Ronda straight up said the TLC ladder push wasn't revenge, it was a warning to them. All 3 of these women are not done with each other by any means and that's based on their entire characters.
As for Asuka, man, putting Charlotte against Asuka for WM because people want Asuka to get a win is the most shoehorning WM thing you can do for Charlotte. For all of that "Charlotte is being thrown into the match if she's in it" comments it makes way less sense to put her against Asuka. That's not looking at their characters nor is it looking at what makes sense from the developing stories. Right now Charlotte has way more beef with Becky and Ronda compared to Asuka. Asuka would be a downgrade for her.
I don't say this much but WWE's actually done a great job in finding a way to make this triple threat work from a story standpoint. I give them props for it because it makes sense.
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Post by DZ: WF Legacy on Feb 7, 2019 0:00:40 GMT -5
The only way I'm okay with it is if Becky still makes Ronda tap and wins the title. Not making Charlotte tap, Ronda. Becky needs to specifically beat Ronda.
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Post by facethatrunstheplace on Feb 7, 2019 0:21:37 GMT -5
It's not just a no from me it's an oh hell no. Charlotte, Sasha, and Bayley have all had their chance to face Ronda in big singles matches.
Becky is the only member of the WWE Horsewomen who hasn't had a chance to do this yet. It was really dissapointing that we didn't get to see that match at survivor series last year.
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