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Post by Captain Stud Muffin (BLM) on Jun 5, 2020 16:57:47 GMT -5
Wonder if these bitches would’ve also tried this with a rookie Brock Lesnar. Brock offered to carry Taker and Kane bags
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Post by OVO 40 hunched over like he 80 on Jun 5, 2020 16:59:39 GMT -5
Wonder if these bitches would’ve also tried this with a rookie Brock Lesnar. Brock offered to carry Taker and Kane bags If he wants to do it then it’s his choice but nobody should be forced to do it like Rush, they’re grown ass men they can carry their own bags.
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Post by Captain Stud Muffin (BLM) on Jun 5, 2020 17:00:21 GMT -5
Brock offered to carry Taker and Kane bags If he wants to do it then it’s his choice but nobody should be forced to do it like Rush, they’re grown ass men they can carry their own bags. Of course
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jun 5, 2020 17:03:18 GMT -5
Soo all those redacted are Mark Henry right?
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Zone Was Wrong
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Post by Zone Was Wrong on Jun 5, 2020 17:09:30 GMT -5
Sorry, if another journalist I'm working with keeps on insisting to buy him drinks and carrying his sh**, I'd have a similar reaction, especially after multiple instances of harassment and rumor spreading. It's one thing where you know what you're getting into with the Young Lion stuff, it's another when your contract with the company is for wrestling and wrestling related work only. While it wouldn't necessarily be a race issue to me since I'm Native American, I can also see how someone who isn't might chaff at the idea because of past injustices to their race. These people are grown adults, carry your own sh**.
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Post by I'm Team Bayley and Indi on Jun 5, 2020 17:09:49 GMT -5
pffttt at having to buy beers for someone who is probably on way more money then you
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Post by Jaws the Shark on Jun 5, 2020 17:12:28 GMT -5
Nice to see some things never change and that WWE still has that toxic environment that made it miserable for anyone who didn't kowtow to the right people in the 2000s. Obviously a certain amount of hazing occurs in a lot of lines of work and legitimate sports, but this goes beyond fun and veers into the realms of bullying and blatant assertion of power and dominance. "I'm a veteran, carry my bags and pay for my drink or I'll make your life hell."
It's reminiscent of the practice of "fagging" in boys' boarding schools in Britain and the British Empire, which came about ostensibly as a way for older boys to maintain order instead of the masters - in the same way that this probably exists and is allowed in wrestling for older wrestlers to maintain order over the locker room rather than road agents - but actually involved the older boys subjecting their "fags" to a lot of psychological and physical abuse. It's for this reason that the practice has died out, and this kind of silly, juvenile bullying by grown men needs to go the same way.
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Post by polarbearpete on Jun 5, 2020 17:22:40 GMT -5
A new person in a team situation - whether it be sports, a physical job like construction, wrestling - doing small tasks like carry someone’s bag or carry certain work items is most definitely a sign of respect. No, it's a sign that you want to fit in so you'll do the things that will make people you want to like you happy. It's the exploitation of an uneven social power dynamic and the idea that respect is shown through menial tasks for social currency is beyond messed up. I think we’ll have to agree to disagree here as I think there may just be a fundamental difference in how some people view “veteran status” or age and how others view those same social constructs. Neither is right or wrong but it shows in the difference of opinions in this thread.
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Dub H
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Post by Dub H on Jun 5, 2020 17:26:26 GMT -5
No, it's a sign that you want to fit in so you'll do the things that will make people you want to like you happy. It's the exploitation of an uneven social power dynamic and the idea that respect is shown through menial tasks for social currency is beyond messed up. I think we’ll have to agree to disagree here as I think there may just be a fundamental difference in how some people view “veteran status”, age and authority and how others view those same social constructs. Neither is right or wrong but it shows in the difference of opinions in this thread. You can disagree about it But if you start harassing and spreading rumour because the "young guy" is not obeying your demands,that is plain wrong
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Post by Final Countdown Jones on Jun 5, 2020 17:28:01 GMT -5
No, it's a sign that you want to fit in so you'll do the things that will make people you want to like you happy. It's the exploitation of an uneven social power dynamic and the idea that respect is shown through menial tasks for social currency is beyond messed up. I think we’ll have to agree to disagree here as I think there may just be a fundamental difference in how some people view “veteran status” or age and how others view those same social constructs. Neither is right or wrong but it shows in the difference of opinions in this thread. I am exceedingly happy to disagree with you on the idea that harassing someone into doing menial tasks for them as a way to prove enforced and immediately demanded ideas of 'respect' is bad. Nothing can make me happier than to disagree vehemently.
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Post by polarbearpete on Jun 5, 2020 17:35:05 GMT -5
I think we’ll have to agree to disagree here as I think there may just be a fundamental difference in how some people view “veteran status” or age and how others view those same social constructs. Neither is right or wrong but it shows in the difference of opinions in this thread. I am exceedingly happy to disagree with you on the idea that harassing someone into doing menial tasks for them as a way to prove enforced and immediately demanded ideas of 'respect' is bad. Nothing can make me happier than to disagree vehemently. Bit of an exaggeration of my point/construct of a straw man but I see this is becoming less constructive so I will bow out here.
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Post by 06vwgti on Jun 5, 2020 17:36:38 GMT -5
Soo all those redacted are Mark Henry right? That was my first thought as I recall reading about their issues with each other...
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Post by Natural Born Farmer on Jun 5, 2020 17:43:17 GMT -5
Racially motivated or not "perform these tasks to show respect to the veterans" is dumb and people like hanging on him after he's said he doesn't believe he should to keep nagging at him for it and try to pressure him into doing it helps literally nothing. I have the total opposite view, if it’s basic shit like you carry the gear or you’re in charge of handing out beers, I’m fine with it. It happens almost everywhere, I’ve had plenty of jobs where that’s a thing. As long as it’s not escalating to full out hazing, like biscuit games or locking rookies in the tour bus bathroom for an hour, I see nothing wrong with it. In my experience, there’s usually a pretty big correlation between dudes who make a stink about carrying the equipment and dudes you don’t want on your crew. When Dez Bryant joined the Dallas Cowboys, they did their usual asshole hazing shit of trying to get him to carry their bags and stuff. When he flat out told them he wasn't doing it, they stuck him with a $10k dining bill to get back at him. Obviously an extremely talented player management had plans for, and they started his tenure with the team by forging hostility right away. Does this seem like normal behavior for grown men to you?
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Post by polarbearpete on Jun 5, 2020 17:50:55 GMT -5
I think we’ll have to agree to disagree here as I think there may just be a fundamental difference in how some people view “veteran status”, age and authority and how others view those same social constructs. Neither is right or wrong but it shows in the difference of opinions in this thread. You can disagree about it But if you start harassing and spreading rumour because the "young guy" is not obeying your demands,that is plain wrong Agreed. I definitely wouldn’t condone harassing/retaliatory behavior for someone refusing.
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Post by kdogdeluxe on Jun 5, 2020 18:17:15 GMT -5
It's been interesting reading the various responses to this.
BUT, you can be both wrong and right at the same time.
It is correct that your job/contract likely isn't to carry other people's belongings, carry beer or buy beer - whatever it might be. Unless you're paid to do that, it's not your "job."
BUT, if you were brand new in your career (in any field) I would think you would want to manufacture any opportunity to spend time with seniors or have another reason for a respected veteran to know your name in a positive light.
You'd just have to read the room and understand the expectations. Whether you do something or not will ultimately reflect on you in a positive or negative way. Your call.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 5, 2020 18:17:45 GMT -5
I went to an opening day baseball game 5 years ago and remember seeing two rookies carrying pinks purses/bags to the bullpen with them. Even the people sitting next to me understood what they were seeing.
It’s not exclusive to wrestling and definitely not exclusive to race. If they were saying racist things to him while expecting him to carry bags, then that’s different. What he described is basically what happens in every sport. Whether it’s right or wrong is another debate, but he’s throwing race there when it doesn’t apply, IMO.
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Cranjis McBasketball
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Post by Cranjis McBasketball on Jun 5, 2020 18:27:25 GMT -5
It can happen everywhere and still be super shitty. That's not everyone pitching in, that's people grinding at everyone else's menial work to earn their 'respect' and that's a load of horseshit. That's just not the way you actually develop the bonds where people will have your back and belong 'on your crew'. Normalization doesn't make that okay. Edit: Conversely, I'm honestly ultra wary of people who see not wanting to do this junk as a red flag or make a judgment call of of it. Nobody is being asked to do an extra 4 hours of backbreaking labour, but if you're not willing to carry a drink cooler, or wheel the mitre saw on to the jobsite without bitching about it then it raises questions about how you'll fit into the team. Everyone you're working with has done it before you, whether they've been working 10 weeks or 10 years. It comes across as arrogance, and an unwillingness to work with the team if you're raising hell about it. You roll with it for a bit, and it's generally pretty f***ing quick that someone steps in and says "Hey man, that's not you job to worry about anymore" And just to make sure we're on the same page, I'm specifically referring to low level stuff. Like I said in my last post, there's a definite line between team building and abusive hazing. I'm not talking about shower room sexual assault, or "Hey, you're not a team player if you don't drink this 40 of Jack/snort this gram etc". Yup. At my job, you used to get in sweeping stands. They handed you the hockey schedule and said “There’s your schedule. You work the day after each home game”. Then you worked your way up. Things changed and now guys don’t have to do that, the job just isn’t there, so they come in on day one half way up the ladder and bitching about everything. They never had years of shit work to humble them. That’s just the way things are. In hockey, you carry your own f***ing bags. Whether you’re Wayne Gretzky or the kid on a one game call up. Other sports aren’t like that. Every place has its own rituals and rules, that like you mentioned, exposes those you don’t want on the team
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Post by arrogantmodel on Jun 5, 2020 19:05:56 GMT -5
Playing sports in high school, I always heard there was rookie (freshman) hazing. So my first day on the baseball team, this happened:
Senior: Hey, you gotta carry my gear to my car.
Me: f*** you.
Senior: Wow...ok.
Never had a problem after that. lol
Then when I was in charge of training new people at the casino, after a rough day of the new people getting treated like shit by the customers and other staff members, I would offer to buy them a drink or two and go over the job.
That's how it should be. Joking and playfully teasing the new people should be all that happens.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 5, 2020 19:32:50 GMT -5
Is it a WWE thing or did rookies have to bag carry in WCW and ECW? How about modern day ROH, AEW, large indies ect?
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Post by 3cheers4ramirez on Jun 5, 2020 19:37:50 GMT -5
To add to the real sport examples, it's fairly commonplace for soccer players in a clubs youth teams to clean the boots of the senior players.
I don't think it's neccesarily as sinister as it looks on paper. We're also talking tasks, in this case, that would take literally a matter of a few minutes.
Nobody should be forced to do anything they don't want to, but it is revealing to me if someone point blank refuses to do a fairly harmless rite of passage.
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