Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Apr 23, 2021 0:14:37 GMT -5
So this is what the what everyone is going to pretend to be outraged over this week? Did you know that just because you aren't offended by something doesn't mean the people who say they are are lying?
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Post by boliv84 on Apr 23, 2021 2:46:48 GMT -5
I'm critical of the ongoing rumour mill because of a more general problem. "Dirtsheets" can obviously used for backstage politics - ideal for the people that pretend to be mr/mrs nice guy and then start the rumours behind the back to damage other people and/or make themselves look good. So a journalist should be extra careful about these matters. Meltzer however, as he does not keep journalistic distance, is a too willing part of that game. I think buddies and sources are for example rewarded with a more positive coverage, while their competitors may get a more negative coverage.
And in this political atmosphere there are on top so many insulations instead of directly spoken out thoughts. A bit unusual that it did hit Charlotte here though, who seems to be on the good side for Meltzer and even confirms in the thread he has her number. Maybe Meltzer actually (and unsuccessfully) tried to defend her taking time off by mentioning the pressure on women.
So I would welcome if that rumour mill problem would become a public topic and lead to better wrestling journalism. But with twitter we get instead creepy vince-fanboys spending their life listening to everything Meltzer says in hope for some bit to scandalise. And then it becomes just a farce with gotchas, sometimes even when Meltzer just says simple truths like that it's treated as a looks business. Then nothing changes other than Meltzer maybe because of the pressure speaking negative only about more unpopular/less powerful people to avoid the expected social media lashout. And that's not a good change, because Meltzer should be able to report negatively about powerful and popular people (when there's reason).
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Mochi Lone Wolf
Fry's dog Seymour
Development through Destruction.
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Post by Mochi Lone Wolf on Apr 23, 2021 2:53:45 GMT -5
So Charlotte isn't disputing the first piece about her getting dental surgery and I'm sure most people agree with his second point regarding the pressures of the industry. I get why Charlotte would be upset because I doubt in her mind that she's getting surgery because of office pressure. I'm sure she's getting it because she wants it and thinks she'll look better off for it. And that's fine. It's her body, her choice. I'm sure most talent who get cosmetic surgery would feel the same way. No one in the moment is going to acknowledge any pressure. But it exists and often on a much more subtle level. Just listen to Serena Deeb talk about her decision to get (and then subsequently remove) her breast implants. There's definitely a cosmetic pressure in the industry that predominantly effects women. It probably would have been better if Dave had said "now I'm not saying this is the reason for her" or something to that effect but I thought it was implied and he was more commenting on the industry as a whole. It feels more like a misunderstanding to me that ideally could've been resolved off of Twitter. Would be better if he had any decent communications skills whatsoever. You know, being a journalist and all.
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Post by hentery on Apr 23, 2021 4:07:32 GMT -5
Holy crap. There are still people who white knight for Meltzer? The guy with the "racist dog"? The guy who has made snide racial remarks, misogynistic remarks and terrible takes off and on since he decided to recap wrestling? The dude who complains constantly even when he gets what he wants? EL oh EL.
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Captain Stud Muffin (BLM)
FANatic
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Post by Captain Stud Muffin (BLM) on Apr 23, 2021 5:30:35 GMT -5
Meltz record of talking about women isn't great and he should be dragged for it every time he F***s up
Cancel culture isn't real stop saying that shit. Dave is a wrestling journalist and should be held to a standard. Don't be a mush mouth and throw stuff out there
He's good at his job and done damn good for himself and while some people jump on his every word, dude been in the game long enough to know how to navigate shit
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Post by Deleted on Apr 23, 2021 9:09:16 GMT -5
Convenient timing that this blows up shortly after it gets publicized that WWE sends released talent their gear in garbage bags.
Anyway, this is yet another instance of of Meltzer's...shall we say, inelegant phrasing, when it comes to women. He has terminal foot-in-mouth disease - anyone who's listened to Wrestling Observer Radio for more than, like, a minute can attest that he's dreadful at communication - but if he is a misogynist, this quote isn't an example of it, no matter what racist Twitter accounts or SCJerk Vincels try to claim.
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petef3
Don Corleone
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Post by petef3 on Apr 23, 2021 9:21:28 GMT -5
What exactly was Meltzer wrong about here? That Charlotte didn't get some sort of dental/cosmetic surgery? She clearly did. That wrestling in general and WWE in particular doesn't place an emphasis on cosmetic appearance? We all know it does. That WWE specifically places a higher/different standard on women's appearances than men's to the point that women who don't live up to those standards are publicly treated as "pigs"? We all know that, too.
We also know that WWE talent is pretty much trained to strenuously deny anything that Dave reports, even if it's 100% true.
The only "white knights" I see on this topic are the ones for WWE.
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Post by kingoftheindies on Apr 23, 2021 9:39:40 GMT -5
I listened to the podcast where Dave said the stuff it wasn't even anything bad IMO. He said Charlotte was taking time off for dental work. While he did mention the pressure the office puts on women he also said "not saying Charlotte is getting the dental work because she was told to, but there is a history of the office pressuring women if they don't meet their idea of what they should look like"
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Post by Fade is a CodyCryBaby on Apr 23, 2021 11:13:08 GMT -5
Convenient timing that this blows up shortly after it gets publicized that WWE sends released talent their gear in garbage bags. Anyway, this is yet another instance of of Meltzer's...shall we say, inelegant phrasing, when it comes to women. He has terminal foot-in-mouth disease - anyone who's listened to Wrestling Observer Radio for more than, like, a minute can attest that he's dreadful at communication - but if he is a misogynist, this quote isn't an example of it, no matter what racist Twitter accounts or SCJerk Vincels try to claim. Am I crazy or has that happened before?
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Post by James Fabiano on Apr 23, 2021 12:06:11 GMT -5
Could it have been a wagging the dog situation for Charlotte to confront Dave when other things were happening? Things he might report on? Sure.
Doesn't make shaming women any more comfortable, past or present.
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petef3
Don Corleone
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Post by petef3 on Apr 23, 2021 12:29:06 GMT -5
How did Dave "shame" Charlotte?
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Post by Lance Uppercut on Apr 25, 2021 23:34:56 GMT -5
Convenient timing that this blows up shortly after it gets publicized that WWE sends released talent their gear in garbage bags. Anyway, this is yet another instance of of Meltzer's...shall we say, inelegant phrasing, when it comes to women. He has terminal foot-in-mouth disease - anyone who's listened to Wrestling Observer Radio for more than, like, a minute can attest that he's dreadful at communication - but if he is a misogynist, this quote isn't an example of it, no matter what racist Twitter accounts or SCJerk Vincels try to claim. Am I crazy or has that happened before? Yeah this story popped up around Wednesday or Tuesday and the mickie thing came up Thursday
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Post by Jaws the Shark on Apr 26, 2021 16:59:59 GMT -5
Convenient timing that this blows up shortly after it gets publicized that WWE sends released talent their gear in garbage bags. Anyway, this is yet another instance of of Meltzer's...shall we say, inelegant phrasing, when it comes to women. He has terminal foot-in-mouth disease - anyone who's listened to Wrestling Observer Radio for more than, like, a minute can attest that he's dreadful at communication - but if he is a misogynist, this quote isn't an example of it, no matter what racist Twitter accounts or SCJerk Vincels try to claim. Am I crazy or has that happened before? When Rollins had his Twitter shitfit at Meltzer in 2019 it was coincidentally around the time the Saudi hostage situation was making the news.
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Post by eJm on Apr 26, 2021 17:03:09 GMT -5
Am I crazy or has that happened before? When Rollins had his Twitter shitfit at Meltzer in 2019 it was coincidentally around the time the Saudi hostage situation was making the news. It was funnier that even during that, the WWE put out a statement which was hard to buy at the time and harder to believe now considering.
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Post by Jaws the Shark on Apr 26, 2021 17:28:42 GMT -5
When Rollins had his Twitter shitfit at Meltzer in 2019 it was coincidentally around the time the Saudi hostage situation was making the news. It was funnier that even during that, the WWE put out a statement which was hard to buy at the time and harder to believe now considering. Oh God, that statement was hilarious. It was like when someone is very transparently lying but keeps adding extra details to make you think they aren't, but an actual press release.
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lucas_lee
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Post by lucas_lee on Apr 27, 2021 8:19:44 GMT -5
I mean all Dave had to say was Charlotte is getting dental surgery. The extra stuff he added at the end was what caused an issue IMO.
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Post by polarbearpete on Apr 27, 2021 9:05:38 GMT -5
How did Dave "shame" Charlotte? By implying that Charlotte is getting surgery done because she is self-conscious (or “subconscious” as he said) about her looks. People, rightfully, don’t like being told how they’re feeling or why they are doing things. Especially when, as Charlotte said, he can just ask her instead of speculating.
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petef3
Don Corleone
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Post by petef3 on Apr 27, 2021 10:30:29 GMT -5
That's not "shaming." Still not seeing where Dave was wrong about anything he said.
Again, WWE talent plays this card with Dave way, way too much for me to get worked up over it now.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Apr 30, 2021 7:48:29 GMT -5
He talks about anabolic warrior, junkfood dog, everyone made "the game is hungry hungry hippos" jokes when hunter came back bigger than he normally is, all the pre-steroid/post-steroid bodies in 92/93, etc and charlotte pulls the "you can't talk about me because I was born a woman" line when it's her turn that people are noticing something is obviously different about her appearance. Is she a professional wrestler on a wrestling show equal with everyone else, or are we supposed to treat her differently as a woman?
If she were a commentator/something similar, then her appearance wouldn't matter, all that would matter is her voice, or if she's booking, her brain. If you're an in ring performer, and your appearance starts drastically changing, people are going to start questioning what happened. The same thing michael jackson had, "we like you and all, but what's going on with your appearance changing album to album?".
A scientist using their brain, would be bad to comment on their appearance, because that has nothing to do with what they are doing. A in-ring wrestler's face becoming unrecognizable every few months is going to have people questioning what happened, and her body is thinner/slimmed down from when she left, so even in kayfabe within the show they would have to mention it, like they did with hulk in 93 (he slimmed down to increase his speed, etc).
Unless there's something that I'm missing, I'm not seeing how she is being singled out or treated differently from others in the same position.
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Post by Feyrhausen on Apr 30, 2021 9:03:53 GMT -5
He talks about anabolic warrior, junkfood dog, everyone made "the game is hungry hungry hippos" jokes when hunter came back bigger than he normally is, all the pre-steroid/post-steroid bodies in 92/93, etc and charlotte pulls the "you can't talk about me because I was born a woman" line when it's her turn that people are noticing something is obviously different about her appearance. Is she a professional wrestler on a wrestling show equal with everyone else, or are we supposed to treat her differently as a woman? If she were a commentator/something similar, then her appearance wouldn't matter, all that would matter is her voice, or if she's booking, her brain. If you're an in ring performer, and your appearance starts drastically changing, people are going to start questioning what happened. The same thing michael jackson had, "we like you and all, but what's going on with your appearance changing album to album?". A scientist using their brain, would be bad to comment on their appearance, because that has nothing to do with what they are doing. A in-ring wrestler's face becoming unrecognizable every few months is going to have people questioning what happened, and her body is thinner/slimmed down from when she left, so even in kayfabe within the show they would have to mention it, like they did with hulk in 93 (he slimmed down to increase his speed, etc). Unless there's something that I'm missing, I'm not seeing how she is being singled out or treated differently from others in the same position. The names needed to go, and to my knowledge he doesnt use those anymore. Just bitter sounding and low rent. I have said also that Meltzer is justified in talking about the womens (and mens) appearance as it relates to ring work. Also when talking about why someone has lost their push, etc. He just needs to walk a tightrope when doing so to avoid sounding bad which Meltzer has some issues with.
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