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Post by Deleted on Feb 11, 2022 15:41:37 GMT -5
1.) It's a little different now, knowing that all 3 of those guys died relatively young. 2.) Vader in particular didn't have that similar of a look to Keith. It's like the difference between 1992 WCW Vader and 1996-97 Vader who absolutely had put on weight to his detriment. Vader and Bundy I'll grant you, but 'Quake's death was from cancer and had nothing to do with his weight. Cancer can hit anyone of any size at any time. Keith's a very big dude but he's big in the Mark Henry/power-lifter sense, where he's a very bulky combo of muscle and fat - not exactly the sorta look that makes you think he's a heart attack waiting to happen. If his weight starts affecting his in-ring or starts giving him health issues, he may want to slim down, and like I said before I'm sure he'll lose some weight once he gets back into a regular wrestling schedule. Beyond that it's not anyone's business, aesthetics be damned. One of the greatest wrestlers in history was a sloppy fat guy with a lisp.
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Post by Cyno on Feb 12, 2022 16:25:51 GMT -5
1.) It's a little different now, knowing that all 3 of those guys died relatively young. 2.) Vader in particular didn't have that similar of a look to Keith. It's like the difference between 1992 WCW Vader and 1996-97 Vader who absolutely had put on weight to his detriment. Vader and Bundy I'll grant you, but 'Quake's death was from cancer and had nothing to do with his weight. Cancer can hit anyone of any size at any time. Keith's a very big dude but he's big in the Mark Henry/power-lifter sense, where he's a very bulky combo of muscle and fat - not exactly the sorta look that makes you think he's a heart attack waiting to happen. If his weight starts affecting his in-ring or starts giving him health issues, he may want to slim down, and like I said before I'm sure he'll lose some weight once he gets back into a regular wrestling schedule. Beyond that it's not anyone's business, aesthetics be damned. One of the greatest wrestlers in history was a sloppy fat guy with a lisp. To add to this, Earthquake had bladder cancer and I don't think being overweight or obese is a risk factor for that.
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petef3
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Post by petef3 on Feb 12, 2022 17:43:32 GMT -5
Obesity is absolutely a risk factor for bladder cancer.
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Post by Terry McConkey on Feb 12, 2022 18:17:23 GMT -5
I guess it’s an age thing but as someone who grew up in the Hulkamania days, I actually love seeing a big ol’ boy in the ring. Would these folks be clutching their pearls at the mere sight of King Kong Bundy, Earthquake or Vader? If Lee needs/wants to drop weight for health reasons, then that’s a good idea (though entirely up to him). If someone thinks it’s “not a good look”, get the f*** on out of here. I wonder if some of the people who say that Keith Lee is fat, also have similar things to say about female talents? I don't get this place sometimes.
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petef3
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Post by petef3 on Feb 12, 2022 18:28:28 GMT -5
I have no problem or shame declaring that weight is likely a factor in Nia Jax being a clumsy, dangerous oaf (in addition to the fact that she's arrogant, selfish, and stupid).
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Post by Citizen Snips Has Left on Feb 12, 2022 18:40:01 GMT -5
I have no problem or shame declaring that weight is likely a factor in Nia Jax being a clumsy, dangerous oaf (in addition to the fact that she's arrogant, selfish, and stupid). Seth Rollins is in great shape and smashed John Cena’s face in and injured both Sting and Balor with his buckle bomb. Goldberg was pretty fit when he kicked Bret Hart’s head in. Jim Cornette took the Banzai Drop once and said it felt like someone dropping a pillow on his chest because Yokozuna took such great care of him. Her attitude was what caused her damage. Her size probably made it hurt even worse, but she would have smashed Becky’s face with that punch if she weighed 50 lbs less too.
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chazraps
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Post by chazraps on Feb 12, 2022 19:04:01 GMT -5
I have no problem or shame declaring that weight is likely a factor in Nia Jax being a clumsy, dangerous oaf (in addition to the fact that she's arrogant, selfish, and stupid). This is fatphobic wholly untrue bullshit with absolutely no basis in reality. Come on now.
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Crappler El 0 M
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Post by Crappler El 0 M on Feb 12, 2022 19:15:19 GMT -5
Keith had heart troubles following COVID that kept him sidelined for several months. Keith himself said he was in a fight against death. I think Meltzer's concern about his weight comes from a honest place due to concerns about Keith being bigger than he used to be as someone who not long ago battled through a heart issue. I definitely don't see Dave's words as cruel "body shaming."
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Post by This Player Hating Mothman on Feb 12, 2022 19:22:34 GMT -5
I have no problem or shame declaring that weight is likely a factor in Nia Jax being a clumsy, dangerous oaf (in addition to the fact that she's arrogant, selfish, and stupid). Seth Rollins is in great shape and smashed John Cena’s face in and injured both Sting and Balor with his buckle bomb. Goldberg was pretty fit when he kicked Bret Hart’s head in. Jim Cornette took the Banzai Drop once and said it felt like someone dropping a pillow on his chest because Yokozuna took such great care of him. Her attitude was what caused her damage. Her size probably made it hurt even worse, but she would have smashed Becky’s face with that punch if she weighed 50 lbs less too. That Yokozuna/Cornette story is actually a really good example, because you can contrast that with an around-that-same-era story of, say, Mabel f***ing guys up with his own drop move and Kevin Nash shittalking him mercilessly in a shoot interview. Mabel and Nia aren't tales of how your size makes you worse or more dangerous in the ring, but that accidents happen, a well trained wrestler who cares about not hurting people and is good at what they do will be safe with their weight, and one who doesn't care and maybe isn't fully trained will be sloppier. And Nia didn't exactly hurt people by dead dropping all weight on people; there was an overall sloppiness in everything she did.
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Post by Cyno on Feb 12, 2022 19:33:29 GMT -5
Nia Jax wasn't even particularly fat? Just large.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 12, 2022 19:35:38 GMT -5
Lee knows his own body better than any of us, maybe he needs to, maybe he doesn't. I am always shocked by his and Kevin Owens cardio, their wrestling style is so much faster paced than Vader or any hosses of old.
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Xxcjb01xX [PIECE OF: SH-]
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Post by Xxcjb01xX [PIECE OF: SH-] on Feb 12, 2022 19:40:53 GMT -5
I have no problem or shame declaring that weight is likely a factor in Nia Jax being a clumsy, dangerous oaf (in addition to the fact that she's arrogant, selfish, and stupid). Not to be a dick or anything, but you kinda showed your full ass with this statement. Was she reckless on more than one occasion? Yes. But like... so was someone like Ryback? And that dude didn't have an ounce of fat on his body, so can many other wrestlers half Nia's size, so like... get off this please, because it's untrue, based on nothing, and seems quite fatphobic. You've been hung up on the weight thing a bit too hard in this thread tbh.
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petef3
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Post by petef3 on Feb 12, 2022 20:09:05 GMT -5
Nowhere did I say that ALL fat wrestlers were clumsy and oafish. Or that all skinny wrestlers weren't. But carrying excessive weight 100% can make you more dangerous in the ring. I don't even see how this point is controversial at all. If I made a mistake, it was even dignifying the "BET YOU WOULDN'T SAY THIS ABOUT A WOMAN" non-sequitur when the discussion at hand was Keith Lee.
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asuka007
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Post by asuka007 on Feb 12, 2022 20:18:45 GMT -5
Nia’s problems was that she became slower and less athletic over time.
And there were likely multiple reasons for that.
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chazraps
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Post by chazraps on Feb 12, 2022 20:23:20 GMT -5
Nowhere did I say that ALL fat wrestlers were clumsy and oafish. Or that all skinny wrestlers weren't. But carrying excessive weight 100% can make you more dangerous in the ring. I don't even see how this point is controversial at all. If I made a mistake, it was even dignifying the "BET YOU WOULDN'T SAY THIS ABOUT A WOMAN" non-sequitur when the discussion at hand was Keith Lee. No it can't. There's zero basis for the point you're trying to make.
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Post by HMARK Center on Feb 12, 2022 20:54:13 GMT -5
Nowhere did I say that ALL fat wrestlers were clumsy and oafish. Or that all skinny wrestlers weren't. But carrying excessive weight 100% can make you more dangerous in the ring. I don't even see how this point is controversial at all. If I made a mistake, it was even dignifying the "BET YOU WOULDN'T SAY THIS ABOUT A WOMAN" non-sequitur when the discussion at hand was Keith Lee. Because that's not really backed up by much of anything; like, yes, Mabel being big likely made the move he did on Undertaker that crushed his face more dangerous, but his weight wasn't the direct cause of the injury, it was Mabel being green. Size does not inherently contribute to more in-ring injuries, poor execution and/or training do. Mabel could've been one hundred pounds lighter, he'd likely have crushed Taker's face, regardless. Where there can be an issue is if someone like Keith Lee wants to demonstrate that he can move with great speed and agility but finds himself having put on enough weight that he can't do that as smoothly as he once did, though even that could have just as much to do with him fully recovering from his severe bout with COVID. Like, Bam Bam Bigelow was always known as a quick, pretty agile big guy, but by the end of WCW he was clearly not in the kind of shape he needed to be to execute some of his best agility spots...yet he could still work a perfectly safe match, because Bam Bam was an exceptional worker.
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Xxcjb01xX [PIECE OF: SH-]
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Post by Xxcjb01xX [PIECE OF: SH-] on Feb 12, 2022 20:58:23 GMT -5
Nowhere did I say that ALL fat wrestlers were clumsy and oafish. Or that all skinny wrestlers weren't. But carrying excessive weight 100% can make you more dangerous in the ring. I don't even see how this point is controversial at all. If I made a mistake, it was even dignifying the "BET YOU WOULDN'T SAY THIS ABOUT A WOMAN" non-sequitur when the discussion at hand was Keith Lee. There is no basis to this, there are hundreds of heavy wrestlers who have never injured people in their careers, let alone more so than regular sized wrestlers You're really digging up with these arguments.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 12, 2022 21:07:23 GMT -5
Nia's weight had nothing to do with how she was acting in that Charlotte match. Like, that was an attitude problem.
Also her weight didn't stop her from dropping Charlotte on her head that one time. She's got the strength to lift her, she dropped her because she's either bad in the ring or she just didn't care enough about protecting Charlotte and doing it right which is, well, being bad in the ring. I actually can't think of any injury she's given other women that involved her weight.
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Post by This Player Hating Mothman on Feb 12, 2022 21:09:48 GMT -5
Nia's weight had nothing to do with how she was acting in that Charlotte match. Like, that was an attitude problem. Also her weight didn't stop her from dropping Charlotte on her head that one time. She's got the strength to lift her, she dropped her because she's either bad in the ring or she just didn't care enough about protecting Charlotte and doing it right which is, well, being bad in the ring. I actually can't think of any injury she's given other women that involved her weight. I remembered one of them being just f***ing dropping somebody but didn't know for sure and didn't want to accuse her of botches she didn't make, but. Yeah that's what I thought. It was strikes and drops and throws that did most of her damage.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 12, 2022 21:11:36 GMT -5
Nia's weight had nothing to do with how she was acting in that Charlotte match. Like, that was an attitude problem. Also her weight didn't stop her from dropping Charlotte on her head that one time. She's got the strength to lift her, she dropped her because she's either bad in the ring or she just didn't care enough about protecting Charlotte and doing it right which is, well, being bad in the ring. I actually can't think of any injury she's given other women that involved her weight. I remembered one of them being just f***ing dropping somebody but didn't know for sure and didn't want to accuse her of botches she didn't make, but. Yeah that's what I thought. It was strikes and drops and throws that did most of her damage. Yeah I wanted to be sure too so I Googled the times she's injured women and yeah, it was everything you said.
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