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Post by Fake Jesus on May 14, 2022 19:14:40 GMT -5
There appear to be two 'streams' in AEW, as far as I can tell - the main event and big storylines seemed planned out very far in advance, which leads to fairly rewarding, predictable storylines that are sometimes a bit on the glacial side; everything else is apparently booked by the scene of their pants. Sometimes this works out - there have been periods where the show felt genuinely like the Attitude Era's platonic ideal of a lattice of interconnected storylines, but other times (Like right now) these midcard storylines are woefully bad.
This is probably one symptom of having a very large, top-heavy roster it's difficult to move people up, but AEW seem to have perfected the art of the midcard storyline that leaves both parties looking worse. Take, for example, the current Sammy vs Scorpio feud, or Death Triangle vs The House of Black: These program are absolute chaos that get/got no one more over. It's like sine wave booking - WWE does fifty-fifty that make everyone look bad in the moment, in these midcard storylines AEW have individual shows where people look great and then they turn into complete goobers again the next week.
You recall Big Swole mentioning how one issue with AEW was a very freeform backstage environment. These days it shows in a bad way - the through-thread for a lot of storylines and acts just isn't flowing properly. It seems to me to be a more difficult issue than most to 'fix', because it's like the yips in sport: The way to be better is to do the same thing, but better. I don't know how they book backstage, but it seems like something a little storyboarding could go a long way to address, a little flowcharting.
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Dub H
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Post by Dub H on May 14, 2022 19:57:26 GMT -5
Its hard to say, short of the TNT title scene I dont think so.
AEW always had highs and low at same time. Hookhausen, Wardlow, CM Punk,BCC(especially Yuta).JE and Christian, are still especially amazing
I think they are REALLY overusing The Undispeted Era tho.
They might be trying to juggle more storylines.
But backthen we had Janela feuds that really didnt get much, Dark Order was largely weird booking too,GAMER Miro was widely disliked,I remember some people(like me) really disliked Jungle Boy's losing streak. We had the Nightmare Collective
The Womens division was an even bigger mess starting the Super Britt Push and the pandemic especially
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Post by smokinvokoun86 on May 14, 2022 20:14:26 GMT -5
I mean, it’s debatable. Wrestling is, by its nature, an imperfect art form. The best wrestling “writing” will rarely ever matchup with top notch writing on regular TV shows. So rare that it pretty much never happens. You’ll get great storylines or duds. The Sammy storyline is frankly a dud. And I like almost everyone involved. But AEW does other storylines that hold my interest week in and week out. I can excuse a bad storyline or two if the overall product is still good. And AEW has been an overall good to great product since it started. That’s really the big difference between them and WWE. WWE is a mostly bland, boring and garbage product that sometimes will have cool moments and good show here or there that somewhat justifies its existence, but in the end, it doesn’t change my opinion that the product sucks. AEW will have a few storylines that shit the bed and some wrestlers that I don’t care to see, but the good FAR outweighs the bad.
Could it be better, of course, anything can be improved and anything can be better now matter how good or bad it’s been.
But what I think is good and what you think is could be totally different. That’s why discussions like this can be rough because, it’s all subjective.
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Teemu
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Post by Teemu on May 14, 2022 20:15:24 GMT -5
The reason long-term booking in wrestling is dumb is, things change week to week; people take to wrestlers randomly, get tired of wrestlers randomly - you should react and adapt, not stick to your long-term booking no matter what. Never understood the IWC's love affair with long-term booking. It was different in 1988 when all they had to build Hogan and Savage was the Saturday Night's Main Event specials and four PPVs. That doesn't mean it works in the weekly wrestling television landscape.
Long-term booking is up there with "the silent badass" as funny IWC tropes go for me.
Yea, pretty much. Exactly what has pushed me away from wrestling to watching other, better written fiction. It's just superior in every way.
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Post by "Evil Brood" Jackson Vanik on May 14, 2022 20:19:02 GMT -5
I think the snag with the TNT Title booking sticks out but most of the bigger angles have been hitting. Punk/Hangman, MJF/Wardlow. rise of the BCC and now their connection with JAS, Jade's rise, the Team Taz/Keith + Swerve stuff has all been good to great in my view. Crowds are generally hot. I think the only weirdness of the past month has been a lot of tournament matches plus the introduction of ROH titles which are in their own little weird universe. It's a lot of build up on one hand and culmination on other. Double or Nothing for example is a weird show where you have several big matches but a lot of the card will also likely be there to simply set up more down the line. But overall it's in a good place to me.
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markymark
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Post by markymark on May 14, 2022 20:33:28 GMT -5
I think the snag with the TNT Title booking sticks out but most of the bigger angles have been hitting. Punk/Hangman, MJF/Wardlow. rise of the BCC and now their connection with JAS, Jade's rise, the Team Taz/Keith + Swerve stuff has all been good to great in my view. Crowds are generally hot. I think the only weirdness of the past month has been a lot of tournament matches plus the introduction of ROH titles which are in their own little weird universe. It's a lot of build up on one hand and culmination on other. Double or Nothing for example is a weird show where you have several big matches but a lot of the card will also likely be there to simply set up more down the line. But overall it's in a good place to me.
The stuff between FG 2021 and Revolution 2022 felt worse than recently, hope people arent basing their dislike due to the ratings when the NBA playoffs are killing everything else.
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Post by Lizuka #BLM on May 14, 2022 20:34:56 GMT -5
Personally I'm kind of at a point of basically not even bothering with it right now, hope I care more post-Double or Nothing. Though given I don't care about the NJPW stuff it's more likely that they're not going to start doing anything I'm actually interested in until July.
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Xxcjb01xX [PIECE OF: SH-]
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Post by Xxcjb01xX [PIECE OF: SH-] on May 14, 2022 20:52:10 GMT -5
Hasn't degraded to me personally. Most storylines are very fun to watch week to week, as are the matches. I think some storylines are kinda spinning until the PPV so they can move on to better things, but overall I can't say I'm hating what I'm seeing right now. Shit's picking up right before the PPV, as it should, and the Tournament is pretty compelling for both men and women.
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Demented
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Post by Demented on May 14, 2022 21:08:26 GMT -5
Punk vs Page Wardlow vs MJF Pretty Good. International House Of Black vs Varsity Blondes Scorpio Sky vs Sammy/Cody. Not Good. In short... 50/50 booking
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Burst
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Post by Burst on May 14, 2022 21:23:25 GMT -5
I mean I still think the shows are reasonably fun to watch week to week, but the one thing that's been puzzling over the last maybe six months, is why some angles are just really dragging out and not really going anywhere of substance, when before AEW was actually pretty decent about cutting losses and moving on when something was going over like a wet fart (see also: Nightmare Collective). I don't know how much of that is are said angles still being decently hot with the live crowds, but it's like... so much of the midcard especially has just seemed stuck in a holding pattern for no discernable reason, particularly for feuds that weren't blown off at Revolution. Ditto for a number of the stables kind of stagnating both in terms of storyline progression and their place on the card.
There's the part of me that thinks that a lot could just be TK finally hitting the point where overextending himself is starting to be noticeable, between booking and presumably all the negotiations with ROH and NJPW at a bare minimum.
But don't get me wrong, even outside of angles it's still been pretty consistently fun to watch, and there's not too many wrestling shows in the last ten or fifteen years I could say that about. I don't think there's any way in hell you could argue that current Dynamite is somehow less enjoyable than, I dunno, guest host-era Raw or anonymous general manager-era Raw.
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Fade
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Post by Fade on May 14, 2022 21:47:56 GMT -5
The treatment of the TNT title has been atrocious.
But for the most part, I’d say it feels like the usual ebb and flow of AEW.
My week to week enjoyment of Dynamite has gone down but I’m not sure it fits with what OP is saying. My issues have mostly been story/character based, the ROH stuff, and honestly the Owen hart tournament.
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Teemu
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Post by Teemu on May 14, 2022 21:50:26 GMT -5
I guess I'm in the minority because I don't feel like rapid title changes are a bad thing, especially when it's a midcard title. If this were real, titles would change hands often probably. It doesn't make sense that a guy wins a title and all of a sudden becomes unbeatable for a year just because he's holding a belt. People lose titles in their first title defense in the UFC all the time.
It's realistic. And beyond that, titles are just MacGuffins on a TV show, plot devices. Who cares. There is no real prestige. They're just props.
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Post by polarbearpete on May 14, 2022 21:51:04 GMT -5
The storylines have been lacking, outside of Wardlow-MJF. Punk-Hangman has had a decent promo or two but there’s not really a compelling story there. The rest of the card has been either storylines that aren’t hitting (the TNT title picture, the HOB/Death Triangle, the JAS, the BCC) or randomness with no story (the tournaments, the random ROH title matches). It makes for good shows some weeks, weak shows other weeks, and an overall lack of cohesion and story progression.
Hopefully they can focus better the next two weeks going into the PPV.
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Fade
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Post by Fade on May 14, 2022 21:54:57 GMT -5
I guess I'm in the minority because I don't feel like rapid title changes are a bad thing, especially when it's a midcard title. If this were real, titles would change hands often probably. It doesn't make sense that a guy wins a title and all of a sudden becomes unbeatable for a year just because he's holding a belt. People lose titles in their first title defense in the UFC all the time. It's realistic. And beyond that, titles are just MacGuffins on a TV show, plot devices. Who cares. There is no real prestige. They're just props. You can go back and fourth with the quick title changes. I’m usually for them like with HHH/Rock and Jericho/Benoit. My issue is I think Scorpio and Sammy have been lacking as champions.
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Post by Hypnosis on May 14, 2022 21:56:25 GMT -5
The treatment of the TNT title has been atrocious. But for the most part, I’d say it feels like the usual ebb and flow of AEW. My week to week enjoyment of Dynamite has gone down but I’m not sure it fits with what OP is saying. My issues have mostly been story/character based, the ROH stuff, and honestly the Owen hart tournament. AEW should just hold off on tournaments until next spring after the Owen is done. Guevara and ATT need to move on from each other and the TNT title soon, but I would like for Ethan Page to finally get a reign.
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markymark
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Post by markymark on May 14, 2022 21:59:31 GMT -5
The treatment of the TNT title has been atrocious. But for the most part, I’d say it feels like the usual ebb and flow of AEW. My week to week enjoyment of Dynamite has gone down but I’m not sure it fits with what OP is saying. My issues have mostly been story/character based, the ROH stuff, and honestly the Owen hart tournament. AEW should just hold off on tournaments until next spring after the Owen is done. Guevara and ATT need to move on from each other and the TNT title soon, but I would like for Ethan Page to finally get a reign.
They are clearly going to do another one now with the Trios titles already made but the original plan was to wait for Kenny.
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Wieners=$$$
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Post by Wieners=$$$ on May 14, 2022 22:20:32 GMT -5
I believe the reason for this really comes down to Khan's spending.
Every new talent signed is instantly inserted into a storyline. Although, stories are usually progressing on a weekly to bi-weekly basis, the stacking of stories becomes too disjointed.
I'll use the Hardy Family Office as an example. Andrade was thrown into this angle which formed into a storyline featuring Darby and Sting, and eventually Jeff Hardy when he became available.
The explanation as to why all of these pieces are feuding seemed hastily assembled. It still has made for fun brawls and moments, but it really does feel random at times.
Blackpool Combat Club is another example of Khan acquiring a new talent, and inserting it into a current storyline/angle/stable with little to no solid reasoning.
It is still making for a fun product, but it makes long term booking seem uncertain and slightly hard to get behind. Many on this forum were questioning whether Hangman was going to beat Omega for the title once Punk and Danielson were signed.
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Post by oxbaker on May 14, 2022 22:26:05 GMT -5
The storylines have been lacking, outside of Wardlow-MJF. Punk-Hangman has had a decent promo or two but there’s not really a compelling story there. The rest of the card has been either storylines that aren’t hitting (the TNT title picture, the HOB/Death Triangle, the JAS, the BCC) or randomness with no story (the tournaments, the random ROH title matches). It makes for good shows some weeks, weak shows other weeks, and an overall lack of cohesion and story progression. Hopefully they can focus better the next two weeks going into the PPV. So far to me, the storyline for Punk and Hangman is (kayfabe) Punk wants the title and Hangman is really angry about that. At least that’s what’s come across to me. But I don’t really get why he doesn’t expect Punk to want to win the title, same as any other challenger. I’m looking forward to the match because they’re both talented and should mesh well, but I don’t see the real beef here — the ‘why’ — that makes me care here beyond just ‘should be a good wrestling match.’ To me, the real (non-kayfabe) angle here is just ‘are they going to go ahead and put the strap on Punk and end what has been a pretty meh title reign or not’? It’s more of a smark-directed thing, not just ‘who will win’ but ‘what are they booking’ — it’s a fine line, sort of, but I see more speculation about future lineage of the title (oh, will they put it on Punk and have him lose it to MJF, or could Hangan keep it for a little longer and blah blah blah) than I do investment in this particular angle.
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Teemu
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Post by Teemu on May 14, 2022 22:38:07 GMT -5
I don't really get what is so compelling about Hangman vs. Punk, honestly. Granted, I'm not a week to week viewer (due to said lack of compelling stories) so maybe I've missed something, but so far it's just been Punk, the challenger, wanting to win the title and Hangman showing him the middle finger. Hardly Academy-winning story writing.
And honestly MJF and Wardlow is also so paint by numbers if you've watched wrestling for longer than a year, but I will give AEW the fact that Wardlow is over. I'm thinking it's just me being too old for wrestling, I've felt that way for a long time lol. It's just that we've seen all of these angles. Hundreds. Thousands of times. Only the actors change. The plot lines are always the same.
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Post by Lizuka #BLM on May 14, 2022 22:38:38 GMT -5
In general I think at this point AEW could comfortably go like six years without any tournaments and I'd have zero complaints. It feels like there's always one going on and it's not a trope I've ever been especially fond of to begin with. Doesn't really help that the current ones seem to have no stakes whatsoever.
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