asuka007
Fry's dog Seymour
Posts: 20,773
|
Post by asuka007 on May 15, 2022 12:05:11 GMT -5
I feel like a lot of the champions (except perhaps Jade) are suffering from not feeling like the most important or prominent things on the show.
Then there’s a few stories that have dragged on for too long imo.
|
|
Dub H
Crow T. Robot
Captain Pixel: the Game Master
I ❤ Aniki
Posts: 47,879
|
Post by Dub H on May 15, 2022 12:43:39 GMT -5
Its still an upgrade over Cole/Hangman "buildup" for Revolution even if its a low bar.
AEW pretty routinely just goes, "Whatever, it's for the title, we don't need a story." Think the worst example is probably when they had just continued to have Kenny feud with Moxley in the lead-up to Double or Nothing last year then last minute realized, "Uh, shit, right, we need someone else!" and so in the span of like two weeks they randomly threw PAC and OC at him. It was supposed to be a mini feud between OC and Kenny(which they did have, with Kenny trying to put down OC and give up his title shot) But during the numbe rone contender match it looked like OC could have had a concussion so they called an audible of having Kenny get the match a no contest.
|
|
|
Post by xxshoyuweeniexx on May 15, 2022 19:37:23 GMT -5
I’m just gonna say it. The idea of AEW, the potential it has, is more interesting than AEW itself. The idea that you have four vastly different guys, four pillars, who you could watch and support from the ground up, who can someday carry the company? Fantastic. Then you have a whole crew of guys and girls, from Dante Martin and Hook and Daniel Garcia to Jade Cargill and Will Hobbs, who are just as capable and might even be better? Epic. Then you have them mixing it up with veterans like Moxley, Punk, and Danielson? Chef’s freakin’ kiss. In practice, the pieces don’t come together as excitedly as it sounds. That’s not a knock on AEW, which has at least a few worthwhile matches or segments per show, but it’s more the promise and potential of its stacked roster that keep me watching rather than the fact that it’s gripping television. That makes..a lot of sense actually. Like, I think AEW is great and will be better in like 3 years when they're not playing ROH/NJPW/PWG's greatest hits and we get more of a focus on their younger guys, rather than "IT'S MOXLEY AND BRYAN..and their friend Yuta who's gonna main event in like 3 years but for now he's their sidekick'
|
|
Xxcjb01xX [PIECE OF: SH-]
FANatic
Writer, Lover of all things Wrestling. Analytical, Critical, Lovable (hopefully). Lets all have fun!
Posts: 236,134
|
Post by Xxcjb01xX [PIECE OF: SH-] on May 15, 2022 19:40:51 GMT -5
I’m just gonna say it. The idea of AEW, the potential it has, is more interesting than AEW itself. The idea that you have four vastly different guys, four pillars, who you could watch and support from the ground up, who can someday carry the company? Fantastic. Then you have a whole crew of guys and girls, from Dante Martin and Hook and Daniel Garcia to Jade Cargill and Will Hobbs, who are just as capable and might even be better? Epic. Then you have them mixing it up with veterans like Moxley, Punk, and Danielson? Chef’s freakin’ kiss. In practice, the pieces don’t come together as excitedly as it sounds. That’s not a knock on AEW, which has at least a few worthwhile matches or segments per show, but it’s more the promise and potential of its stacked roster that keep me watching rather than the fact that it’s gripping television. That makes..a lot of sense actually. Like, I think AEW is great and will be better in like 3 years when they're not playing ROH/NJPW/PWG's greatest hits and we get more of a focus on their younger guys, rather than "IT'S MOXLEY AND BRYAN..and their friend Yuta who's gonna main event in like 3 years but for now he's their sidekick' Still, look how quickly they developed Yuta into making you care about him at all. They did so much for him in three weeks, more than I've seen other companies try and do with people in years. Yuta went from promising prospect to legitimate player in AEW, and he did so very quickly and that's in large part to his energy. He has an intangible you can't teach and the crowds love him for it BCC helping make you care about these people while still having the now of pro wrestling isn't a bad decision imo, I'm curious where they continue to branch out if anything.
|
|
|
Post by polarbearpete on May 15, 2022 22:31:31 GMT -5
That makes..a lot of sense actually. Like, I think AEW is great and will be better in like 3 years when they're not playing ROH/NJPW/PWG's greatest hits and we get more of a focus on their younger guys, rather than "IT'S MOXLEY AND BRYAN..and their friend Yuta who's gonna main event in like 3 years but for now he's their sidekick' Still, look how quickly they developed Yuta into making you care about him at all. They did so much for him in three weeks, more than I've seen other companies try and do with people in years. Yuta went from promising prospect to legitimate player in AEW, and he did so very quickly and that's in large part to his energy. He has an intangible you can't teach and the crowds love him for it BCC helping make you care about these people while still having the now of pro wrestling isn't a bad decision imo, I'm curious where they continue to branch out if anything. It’s kind of neutered Bryan and Moxley so far. They both felt like much bigger deals solo than they do now. Hopefully they branch back out into the singles division and world title matches after this PPV.
|
|
Xxcjb01xX [PIECE OF: SH-]
FANatic
Writer, Lover of all things Wrestling. Analytical, Critical, Lovable (hopefully). Lets all have fun!
Posts: 236,134
|
Post by Xxcjb01xX [PIECE OF: SH-] on May 15, 2022 22:34:41 GMT -5
Still, look how quickly they developed Yuta into making you care about him at all. They did so much for him in three weeks, more than I've seen other companies try and do with people in years. Yuta went from promising prospect to legitimate player in AEW, and he did so very quickly and that's in large part to his energy. He has an intangible you can't teach and the crowds love him for it BCC helping make you care about these people while still having the now of pro wrestling isn't a bad decision imo, I'm curious where they continue to branch out if anything. It’s kind of neutered Bryan and Moxley so far. They both felt like much bigger deals solo than they do now. Hopefully they branch back out into the singles division and world title matches after this PPV. I disagree on it neutering them. Regal saying Bryan is everything he wished he was as a wrestler puts him over huge, Mox is Mox and I think anything he does works. Do I want to see them in singles feuds or going for belts? Yeah, but tag and even trios if Khan pulls the trigger on them, would also be absolutely fine. Danielson as TNT Champ though I think would be an awesome storyline.
|
|
|
Post by Lizuka #BLM on May 15, 2022 22:39:00 GMT -5
Really on the Moxley and Bryan thing I think it'd be a lot more interesting if they were doing the Two Man Power Trip thing. They're both great talkers and great performers with very established characters, I don't really see why you need a manager or to make it a full stable. It kind of feels like if when they did Rated RKO they'd also stuck Heyman with them and had them recruit Kenny, it'd have just been weird.
|
|
|
Post by "Evil Brood" Jackson Vanik on May 15, 2022 22:55:25 GMT -5
Still, look how quickly they developed Yuta into making you care about him at all. They did so much for him in three weeks, more than I've seen other companies try and do with people in years. Yuta went from promising prospect to legitimate player in AEW, and he did so very quickly and that's in large part to his energy. He has an intangible you can't teach and the crowds love him for it BCC helping make you care about these people while still having the now of pro wrestling isn't a bad decision imo, I'm curious where they continue to branch out if anything. It’s kind of neutered Bryan and Moxley so far. They both felt like much bigger deals solo than they do now. Hopefully they branch back out into the singles division and world title matches after this PPV. I completely disagree. I understand some feel differently but the BCC to me has been must watch since they formed and I'm a lot more interested in where they all go now that they're together than when they were apart. One of the best things on TV recently (at least for me).
|
|
|
Post by polarbearpete on May 15, 2022 23:19:41 GMT -5
It’s kind of neutered Bryan and Moxley so far. They both felt like much bigger deals solo than they do now. Hopefully they branch back out into the singles division and world title matches after this PPV. I disagree on it neutering them. Regal saying Bryan is everything he wished he was as a wrestler puts him over huge, Mox is Mox and I think anything he does works. Do I want to see them in singles feuds or going for belts? Yeah, but tag and even trios if Khan pulls the trigger on them, would also be absolutely fine. Danielson as TNT Champ though I think would be an awesome storyline. Bryan is leaps and bounds a bigger star than Regal both in reality and kayfabe so Regal saying glowing things doesn’t put him over huge. Moxley and Bryan are two of my favorites, but adding Regal and Yuta makes it a situation where it seems the whole is definitely not better than the sum of its parts. Maybe they’ll change my mind in the months to come
|
|
Xxcjb01xX [PIECE OF: SH-]
FANatic
Writer, Lover of all things Wrestling. Analytical, Critical, Lovable (hopefully). Lets all have fun!
Posts: 236,134
|
Post by Xxcjb01xX [PIECE OF: SH-] on May 16, 2022 0:04:08 GMT -5
I disagree on it neutering them. Regal saying Bryan is everything he wished he was as a wrestler puts him over huge, Mox is Mox and I think anything he does works. Do I want to see them in singles feuds or going for belts? Yeah, but tag and even trios if Khan pulls the trigger on them, would also be absolutely fine. Danielson as TNT Champ though I think would be an awesome storyline. Bryan is leaps and bounds a bigger star than Regal both in reality and kayfabe so Regal saying glowing things doesn’t put him over huge. Moxley and Bryan are two of my favorites, but adding Regal and Yuta makes it a situation where it seems the whole is definitely not better than the sum of its parts. Maybe they’ll change my mind in the months to come For me I just don't agree, the idea of BCC is compelling shit to me, and Regal and Jericho having a confrontation is maybe the thing I'm looking forward to most this week on Dynamite at least promo wise. The Road to promo by Regal may have also literally been promo of the year outside of MJF using the "I'm a Snake" line against Punk, shit's been firing on all cylinders for me as far as I'm concerned right now, and it's only just started so I wanna see where it goes.
|
|
|
Post by stoptheclocks on May 16, 2022 4:54:28 GMT -5
Yeah, I love Regal and that promo on Road To was legitimately great... but I have no idea what multiple-time world champions Moxley and Bryan are supposed to be learning from him at this point. For most people who even remember Regal as a wrestler, he was a mid-card comedy heel.
|
|
|
Post by "Evil Brood" Jackson Vanik on May 16, 2022 7:42:25 GMT -5
Yeah, I love Regal and that promo on Road To was legitimately great... but I have no idea what multiple-time world champions Moxley and Bryan are supposed to be learning from him at this point. For most people who even remember Regal as a wrestler, he was a mid-card comedy heel. I'm a sports fan so I guess this just seems totally normal and natural to me? Like even the best player in the world can learn something from their coach, even if that coach was never the best player themselves. Tom Brady learned from a coach who never made it to the NFL. Floyd Mayweather was trained by his family which consisted of decent to good boxers but no one on his level. That's just how the world works.
|
|
Xxcjb01xX [PIECE OF: SH-]
FANatic
Writer, Lover of all things Wrestling. Analytical, Critical, Lovable (hopefully). Lets all have fun!
Posts: 236,134
|
Post by Xxcjb01xX [PIECE OF: SH-] on May 16, 2022 7:50:08 GMT -5
Yeah, I love Regal and that promo on Road To was legitimately great... but I have no idea what multiple-time world champions Moxley and Bryan are supposed to be learning from him at this point. For most people who even remember Regal as a wrestler, he was a mid-card comedy heel. You literally never stop learning even when you become the best in the world. That's like 101 in not just sports but for almost like every type of media. The Marvel movies even hammer home just how much the characters continue to grow, adapt, learn, and change throughout the arcs, even when they are at their peak. Mox and Bryan are those guys And "he was a mid-card comedy heel" does not discredit Regal. So much as Jericho going all the crazy comedy shit he's done has discredited him as a wrestler people also want to follow very believably. It just shows how many hats he wore and could make work. Regal always was a compelling promo, he was always great no matter what he did, and whether it was knowing him for his badass wrestling (Which he did get to show off in WWE at points), his comedy runs, his NXT run, or what have you, William Regal might be one of the most known and respected wrestlers and trainers of our time, and that's not an exaggeration. If you DIDN'T for some reason know how vicious Regal could be and how eloquent he could be, the Road To promo alone showed it, as has his other interactions, slapping Bryan and Mox, wrangling them into a unit, the respect they have for him for who they are matters on screen and immediately tells you what you need to know about William Regal, and hell if you watched WWE any time Bryan and Regal interacted or got to wrestle, you saw it. If you watched Dean Ambrose in FCW when he feuded with William Regal, you saw it. They've been an influence on each others careers but even then, Regal explained it to the letter, especially with Bryan, and exactly what he wanted to do when he made BCC a thing, and how willing Mox and Bryan were to make it work. The notion that even in kayfabe that Bryan and Moxley cannot learn something from William Regal is just crazy to me. William Regal is one of those dudes I think anyone in wrestling could kneel to and ask for guidance and I'd be like "Yeah, fair", he's one of those dudes, and always has been.
|
|
|
Post by eJm on May 16, 2022 7:52:52 GMT -5
Yeah, I love Regal and that promo on Road To was legitimately great... but I have no idea what multiple-time world champions Moxley and Bryan are supposed to be learning from him at this point. For most people who even remember Regal as a wrestler, he was a mid-card comedy heel. I'm a sports fan so I guess this just seems totally normal and natural to me? Like even the best player in the world can learn something from their coach, even if that coach was never the best player themselves. Tom Brady learned from a coach who never made it to the NFL. Floyd Mayweather was trained by his family which consisted of decent to good boxers but no one on his level. That's just how the world works. Not even that, sports teams and players change coaches all the time. What's Rafael Nadal really learning from his coach even though he's a multiple time Wimbledon and Open champion? I mean, a lot, likely. Especially keeping focus and finding weakness in other people's games. It's weird some people are supposed to look at wrestling and say that wouldn't happen? Like, a lot of wrestlers still train at schools consistently despite being experienced vets.
|
|
|
Post by oxbaker on May 16, 2022 7:59:25 GMT -5
Anyone familiar with Regal’s career knows he’s a man. A real, real man’s man.
He can teach them to be real, real men’s men.
|
|
Xxcjb01xX [PIECE OF: SH-]
FANatic
Writer, Lover of all things Wrestling. Analytical, Critical, Lovable (hopefully). Lets all have fun!
Posts: 236,134
|
Post by Xxcjb01xX [PIECE OF: SH-] on May 16, 2022 8:14:47 GMT -5
I'm a sports fan so I guess this just seems totally normal and natural to me? Like even the best player in the world can learn something from their coach, even if that coach was never the best player themselves. Tom Brady learned from a coach who never made it to the NFL. Floyd Mayweather was trained by his family which consisted of decent to good boxers but no one on his level. That's just how the world works. Not even that, sports teams and players change coaches all the time. What's Raphael Nadal really learning from his coach even though he's a multiple time Wimbledon and Open champion? I mean, a lot, likely. Especially keeping focus and finding weakness in other people's games. It's weird some people are supposed to look at wrestling and say that wouldn't happen? Like, a lot of wrestlers still train at schools consistently despite being experienced vets. Curt Hawkins and Pat Buck have trained some of the most fast rising wrestlers on the scene today at Create-A-Pro alone. For me that'd be like someone saying "Pfft, Curt Hawkins?? Who'd he ever beat?", coaches can sometimes not have the most dazzling careers but their f***ing trainee resumes can be STACKED because they're very good at what they do and how they did it regardless This is why in the NBA especially, you see a lot of players retire, and simply become coaches. Two of which, Steve Kerr and Jason Kidd, are about to face off in the Western Conference Finals. Michael Jordan or Kobe Bryant they were not, but it don't matter, what they're doing and how they're helping condition and lead the best in the world to their best, is what shines through. Not everyone's up to snuff for that credential or that transition... but if you're gonna try and tell me William Regal isn't? I'm very much gonna have to disagree with you...
|
|
Burst
El Dandy
*inarticulate squawking*
Posts: 8,599
|
Post by Burst on May 16, 2022 8:28:31 GMT -5
At risk of beating a dead horse, the real sport comparison is extremely apt because I'd say it's a very striking minority of coaches or managers that were legitimately super special awesome as active players. More often than not, it always feels like your coaches and managers were journeymen or utility guys or guys that weren't necessarily the top of the card so to speak. That tends to translate well to coaching and teaching, since they had to learn all the tricks and scrap to hold themselves up versus folks who were able to cruise on innate talent or size or what have you. I've also heard a lot of the inverse about how guys who were freakishly talented as players tend to be lousy coaches because they're like "well just... do it" or otherwise can't grasp that other players just might not be able to do things or look at things the same ways that they do.
To bring it back to wrestling, I feel like that's almost certainly why a lot of your better regarded trainers and such ARE people like Curt Hawkins and Gangrel that may have had their moments in the spotlight but certainly weren't world champions. And really, of the more recent wrestling generations, at least on the US side, who's a former world champion that's an active trainer/has an active wrestling school that's actually put out multiple competitors that's decently well regarded? All I can think of is HBK and Booker T, and all I can think of regarding HBK is how allegedly hands-off he actually was/is with his wrestling school.
|
|
|
Post by eJm on May 16, 2022 8:39:08 GMT -5
At risk of beating a dead horse, the real sport comparison is extremely apt because I'd say it's a very striking minority of coaches or managers that were legitimately super special awesome as active players. More often than not, it always feels like your coaches and managers were journeymen or utility guys or guys that weren't necessarily the top of the card so to speak. That tends to translate well to coaching and teaching, since they had to learn all the tricks and scrap to hold themselves up versus folks who were able to cruise on innate talent or size or what have you. I've also heard a lot of the inverse about how guys who were freakishly talented as players tend to be lousy coaches because they're like "well just... do it" or otherwise can't grasp that other players just might not be able to do things or look at things the same ways that they do. And really, it's easier to just have the guy who coached Michael Jordan/Tom Brady/Serena Williams/Insert star of choice here coaching you in how they played rather than just having them teaching you because they might not be able to convey what the coach told them to do. Outside of kayfabe, you'd want someone like Curt Hawkins coaching you because dude was in the company longer than a lot of talents were main eventers and trying to find ways of being a part of the show in some fashion which, if you're a contracted talent in a major company, will likely serve you better long term. It's why, frankly, my dream coach is Heath Slater. I want to be someone who makes lemonade from lemons like 99% of his career was and it'll keep me somewhere longer. In kayfabe, like you said, someone whose been in the business longer has likely learned the tricks of the trade better, especially if they've been in different divisions. You might not have won a world title but you've likely been around the guy whose been the world champion and know why he got there. Like, to go into a WWE example for a second, what does Rhea Ripley get from Edge? Ripley's an NXT UK, NXT, Women's Tag and Raw Women's champion, she can do stuff by herself clearly. But if you're given the opportunity to learn from a highly decorated world champion who suddenly likes purple a lot, you're likely going to jump at the chance.
|
|
|
Post by polarbearpete on May 16, 2022 9:11:18 GMT -5
I don’t have trouble believing in kayfabe (or real life) that Mox and Bryan can learn things from Regal. The issue I have is that the group so far to me has felt like a big step down for Moxley and Bryan, who are the biggest stars in the company (along with Punk).
|
|
Kalmia
King Koopa
Happy to be here
Posts: 11,710
|
Post by Kalmia on May 16, 2022 9:12:49 GMT -5
I'm here for the BCC with Danielson and Moxley if only because it gives them something to do while they're out of the title picture. I don't think you can have wrestlers the caliber of Danielson and Mox remain as single guys without sooner or later, making them both title challengers. Especially in the case of Mox, who hasn't really been near the title since the angle with Omega immediately after losing the belt. BCC lets them both be strong badasses that keep on winning and they're getting others over in the process. It'll only take one promo or a couple of singles wins to put either of them straight back in the world title hunt if they're needed.
Plus, Regal just has that air of knowledge and credibility as a coach for anyone. Danielson is a student of the game who's going to be eager to learn all that he can about wrestling, whereas Mox is always happy to learn more ways to hurt people. Regal is believable as both the master technician Danielson looks up to, and the sadistic hard bastard that still has things to teach Mox.
|
|