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Post by Captain Stud Muffin (BLM) on May 17, 2022 13:38:56 GMT -5
I think the week to week factor does have some merit in how it is sort of downgraded. The show the first year was able to build compelling characters and make good TV with their cast I think over the last year it’s been as much about “who shows up next” just as much as it has been about the titles or feuds. For a good while they have been living off nice surprises coming in at a frequent schedule but with each new person that does mess up other things Seeing Swerve, Cole, Lee etc is fun but they aren’t really doing anything that is interesting for me With Cole and crew I think they started fine but Kenny being out longer than expected has caused them to put a lot on hold... which has been noticeable as they seem to now have Young Bucks and ReDRagon treading water. Cole to an extent to. I do wonder how much that does change what they wanted to do and how much things have pivoted I think it changes a good deal of stuff but also still it seems like they probably want White Vs Kenny more than Kenny Vs Cole. ReDragon, more so Kyle just feels stuck like yes he was starting to flounder in NXT because he didn’t win the title but it feels like he has reverted backwards
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Post by Captain Stud Muffin (BLM) on May 17, 2022 13:44:53 GMT -5
I think the week to week factor does have some merit in how it is sort of downgraded. The show the first year was able to build compelling characters and make good TV with their cast I think over the last year it’s been as much about “who shows up next” just as much as it has been about the titles or feuds. For a good while they have been living off nice surprises coming in at a frequent schedule but with each new person that does mess up other things Seeing Swerve, Cole, Lee etc is fun but they aren’t really doing anything that is interesting for me While I do enjoy the current format, I do agree things were more "focused" in the first year. The roster is so bloated right now and TK puts the pedal to the floor every Dynamite. Even my dad mentioned how he still enjoys Dynamite, it could use a little breather here and there. TK wants to make everything grand and I get it but it just feels things are built up for let’s make this night nuts and then we will put the pieces together come next week Like it’s fine to have to go crazy but you could use a breather to set things in order
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Post by simplydurhamcalling on May 17, 2022 15:20:45 GMT -5
One thing I have relied on AEW for is things really heating up heading into a PPV, the TVs often felt like they were treading water in that mid-point between big shows.
Outside the MJF/Wardlow angle it hasn't really felt like that this time and I can't help but think running two tournaments with cold matches simultaneously has impacted that.
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Convoy
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Post by Convoy on May 17, 2022 15:45:26 GMT -5
Yeah, I agree with the "great, they're here, now what" feel. Earlier in the thread I noted how a lot of these former NXT guys are just not compelling whereas there are homegrown talents that constantly entertain me.
You know who I don't care about? Undisputed Era, Keith Lee, Swerve, House of Black and The Hardys. They are just grinding away in these drawn-out storylines that never move from one point and have showcases in these tournaments that exist to exist. You know who I love right now? The Acclaimed, Gunn Club (Lord help me), MJF/Wardlow and HookHausen. These are entertaining groups who have progression in their week-to-week stories and do a lot in the time they are given.
The TNT title stuff is the worst thing on AEW TV. Meanwhile, The Factory is having a compelling, cross-promotional feud with New Japan's LA Dojo.
Everyone just mentioned are booked by the same guy, so he is clearly capable of doing well at his job at times. Hell, I don't even get Danhausen's popularity, but I can appreciate the consistency and forward movement of his story with Hook and Nese.
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Post by markymark on May 17, 2022 17:00:33 GMT -5
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Post by kidkamikaze10 on May 17, 2022 17:13:20 GMT -5
To me, that just adds more fuel to the "TK cannot be the only booker" fire.
Head booker? Sure. Not the only booker.
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Post by markymark on May 17, 2022 17:14:04 GMT -5
To me, that just adds more fuel to the "TK cannot be the only booker" fire. Head booker? Sure. Not the only booker.
QT Marshall was said to be TKs right hand, idk if to consider replace him?
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Xxcjb01xX [PIECE OF: SH-]
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Post by Xxcjb01xX [PIECE OF: SH-] on May 17, 2022 17:27:19 GMT -5
TK's gonna need more delegation, he just is, he's gonna need to bite that bullet especially if he plans to also book ROH when they get their show figured out
He doesn't need WWE's structure and a giant team of writers, but he really needs like a good 4-5 people under him who can structure things and get ideas from wrestlers and feed Khan stuff, you don't want your backstage aura to start turning, you wanna get to this problem quick. If you need inspiration to do so, look at what JUST happened in WWE lol.
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Post by oxbaker on May 17, 2022 17:44:34 GMT -5
TK's gonna need more delegation, he just is, he's gonna need to bite that bullet especially if he plans to also book ROH when they get their show figured out He doesn't need WWE's structure and a giant team of writers, but he really needs like a good 4-5 people under him who can structure things and get ideas from wrestlers and feed Khan stuff, you don't want your backstage aura to start turning, you wanna get to this problem quick. If you need inspiration to do so, look at what JUST happened in WWE lol. Since he has an NFL background, I think this is an appropriate analogy: Head coaches coach assistant coaches. Assistant coaches coach players. In the AEW world, that would mean Tony K should coach a small booking team and get across his vision and his priorities and let them deal with pitches from the talent and shape those pitches into angles that fit Tony’s vision. Then Tony makes the final calls. Doesn’t mean he can’t book the main event scene or stick his hand in as he sees fit, but with a roster this big in a company where the whole idea is wrestlers have a lot of control, there are literally not enough hours in a day for him to hear every pitch from every talent on every idea for every show (counting Dark/Elevation and now ROH). And then take all of those pitches, sort through them and piece them all together to create shows. In short, he needs a filter — that booking committee — to allow him to concentrate on what’s important and to set a tone and vision. He’s got some incredibly talented wrestling minds among the veterans. I wish he’d pick some and say ‘you’ve got the women’s division, here’s what I want; you’ve got Dark, here’s what I want; you’ve got ROH and I want that to be different than the regular AEW in this way, get moving on it,’ etc.
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Post by "Evil Brood" Jackson Vanik on May 17, 2022 17:45:05 GMT -5
I'm sure that's true to some extent but it's also interesting because AEW regularly has the entire show announced a week in advance where the finishes line up with what you'd expect 95% of the time. I'm sure some people are getting lost in the sauce and they could use some more structure but we've really yet to have a significant amount of matches dropped right before showtime with no notice other than COVID issues.
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Post by stoptheclocks on May 17, 2022 19:08:03 GMT -5
I think the idea that everyone in any company in totally hapoy with how things are is completely unrealistic. It'd be harder to believe that there weren't pockets of people moaning about one thing or another.
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Post by Xxcjb01xX [PIECE OF: SH-] on May 17, 2022 19:32:01 GMT -5
I think the idea that everyone in any company in totally hapoy with how things are is completely unrealistic. It'd be harder to believe that there weren't pockets of people moaning about one thing or another. This is also true tbh, in the world of wrestling everyone has at least some sort of ego or some at least goal they've set for themselves they want to hit and are gonna be miffed if they aren't quite there.
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Post by Facetious on May 17, 2022 19:34:59 GMT -5
We've heard from Swole and a few others that you're expected to come up with a lot of your own material which is cool if you're creative enough or have TK's ear. Some people need guidance and structure to make things work and that's where AEW needs to start getting a writer or two. Tony will flame out eventually if he's writing 3 his of TV and ROH on top of that.
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Post by HMARK Center on May 18, 2022 8:57:41 GMT -5
I'm sure that's true to some extent but it's also interesting because AEW regularly has the entire show announced a week in advance where the finishes line up with what you'd expect 95% of the time. I'm sure some people are getting lost in the sauce and they could use some more structure but we've really yet to have a significant amount of matches dropped right before showtime with no notice other than COVID issues. I imagine some of it is just a general vibe of wanting to know when they'll reach the destination of whatever their current booking is. Fact is, the last number of months in AEW have been a whirlwind: you had Punk's return, Danielson and Cole jumping over, tons and tons and tons of talented WWE wrestlers getting released that it made total sense to sign, ROH wrestlers getting released who made sense to sign, Khan friggin' buying ROH, the return of a lot of foreign talent thanks to travel opening a bit, the announcement of the NJPW partnership, it just keeps going. The side effect of that isn't terribly shocking: it's tougher to do more deliberately paced feuds and character builds when you're just getting flooded with no-brainer acquisitions and a huge potential restructuring given Khan's plans for Ring of Honor and what might come from the various partnerships with foreign promotions. There's still progression, people are still being kept busy, but I do think a case can be made that there's less "focus" now than there was, say, a year-plus ago. There's a few things that can likely bring this back under control: one will be ROH getting back up and running and thus acting as an entire separate promotion to run stories and angles on for a lot of folks who might not have as many chances to do so on Dynamite/Rampage, another could be some changes to AEW's TV schedule depending on how things evolve in their next deal (I know not everyone's big on the idea, but they certainly have enough quality wrestlers to support another hour of TV a week), and I do agree that another needs to be having a booking committee to share the creative load. Gedo may be top guy in the NJPW booking hierarchy, but he has plenty of other people helping him out, whether more full time like Jado, or for certain angles here and there like Tanahashi. Too easy to get overwhelmed otherwise, I imagine, especially with a roster as big as AEW's has become.
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Post by Welfare Willis on May 18, 2022 9:45:15 GMT -5
One thing I have relied on AEW for is things really heating up heading into a PPV, the TVs often felt like they were treading water in that mid-point between big shows. Outside the MJF/Wardlow angle it hasn't really felt like that this time and I can't help but think running two tournaments with cold matches simultaneously has impacted that. Yeah, I disagree with OP's thesis, but I agree with your point about midway between shows being a low point usually. Meltzer said he was worried about Tony juggling all these balls between AEW, ROH, the Jags, Fulham, etc and that generally having another promotion never works well for the original promotion. I think all of us want Tony to succeed as wrestling needs an alternative to the WWE. but at 3 years in we can see the strengths and weaknesses of AEW's booking as well.
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Post by polarbearpete on May 18, 2022 9:48:03 GMT -5
TK's gonna need more delegation, he just is, he's gonna need to bite that bullet especially if he plans to also book ROH when they get their show figured out He doesn't need WWE's structure and a giant team of writers, but he really needs like a good 4-5 people under him who can structure things and get ideas from wrestlers and feed Khan stuff, you don't want your backstage aura to start turning, you wanna get to this problem quick. If you need inspiration to do so, look at what JUST happened in WWE lol. Yeah if you go back to the late 80s era Vince (which is a good comp for where Khan is now), he would book everything with Patterson and Bruce. And that was when they had much less TV and slower-moving stories than they do now (it was mostly syndicated shows at that time). Booking entirely by yourself doesn’t seem very realistic.
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Post by Deleted on May 18, 2022 10:27:47 GMT -5
I'm sure that's true to some extent but it's also interesting because AEW regularly has the entire show announced a week in advance where the finishes line up with what you'd expect 95% of the time. I'm sure some people are getting lost in the sauce and they could use some more structure but we've really yet to have a significant amount of matches dropped right before showtime with no notice other than COVID issues. I'm a little wary of these newzy reports that the AEW backstage atmosphere is deteriorating, or that a significant portion of the roster is "unhappy with creative," when it's all ostensibly based on MJF, who is always working, and who has very clearly said a lot of these things on television to elicit exactly this reaction. Like, I don't doubt for a second that MJF wants to be paid more, and that he's going to seriously consider heading for WWE when his contract expires if they pay him accordingly. But, I am just super skeptical that there's all of the sudden so much discontent with AEW creative based almost entirely on MJF's masterful blending of reality and kayfabe.
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Post by Lizuka #BLM on May 18, 2022 10:30:33 GMT -5
I don't have any doubt that there has to be some frustration within sections of the AEW locker room, if only due to the 1-2 punch of introducing all the ROH shit and all of the new signings have to be pretty rapidly upending things and leading to a lot of uncertainty, though I rather doubt it's bordering on some outright locker room mutiny or something.
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Post by lucas_lee on May 18, 2022 10:46:10 GMT -5
I wonder if the lack of structure is hurting guys that came from Impact,WWE ,and ROH because its ran like an indy fed from all reports that come out about how the locker room is loose goosey
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Post by Burst on May 18, 2022 11:26:48 GMT -5
I would have to go back and see when things started feeling a bit more disorganized storywise and see if the timing matches up at all, but I do wonder how much Kenny unofficially actually contributed backstage, and not just with the women's division. There's a part of me that feels like a lot of this has been basically since he went on his sabbatical, but I can't really back that up yet.
The other point of divergence I'm thinking of when comparing early AEW to Daily's Place era AEW to now, is that time where all the newz sites said that TK had effectively taken over booking completely versus having the input of the EVPs (or at least the Bucks and Cody).
Agreed 100% with the head coach/assistant coach analogy, or really any kind of herding cats scenario where you absolutely need to delegate for things to work properly.
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