What can we do better? (Meta)

[Jindrak Mark]

Feb 21, 2023 17:41:22 GMT -5 Rumble McSkirmish said:

Just repeat to yourself "it's just a show" and I should really just relax.

This is the big one for me.

I love discussing wrestling as well as movies/music etc on the internet but there's been multiple times in the past 10-15 years when I just step back and take a break for 6-12 months at a time if I find myself getting annoyed or taking things too seriously. Talking about a hobby online should add to your enjoyment, not subtract.

This is just entertainment at the end of the day. It's really not that serious. Even if I don't like something ideally it should be in more of a "that sucked, let's joke about it" way than "I am absolutely raging, effing and blinding over the result of a scripted wrestling match."

[Deleted]

Take a step back, take a breath, and recognize that it's _just_ a wrestling promotion.

AEW doesn't pay your bills, none of us here know Tony Khan on a personal level (at least I don't think so), and that it's all there to entertain.

Since entertainment is pretty subjective, that means you have to accept that opinions will vary and be different. Does that mean that there aren't people who exist to be contrarians for the sake of it? Of course not, but that's just life. They exist in the real world, too.

But it's totally okay, and maybe even a good idea, to just shrug your shoulders at an opinion you disagree with and move on with your day instead of 14 pages of nested quotes where the battle lines always fall the exact same way every time.

[SneakMan]

I think, when a debate breaks out, people on both sides of it should remember that opinions are subjective.

You're allowed to like things! But just because you like a wrestler, angle or story, that doesn't mean they're objectively good.
Similarly, you're allowed to dislike things! But just because you dislike a wrestler, angle or story, that doesn't mean they're objectively bad.

Not a single person here can speak for anybody but themselves. So if you're going into a thread to give your opinion on something, remember that: you're giving your opinion. That's it. There should be absolutely zero mentions of "casual fans" and nobody should be doing quarterly ratings breakdowns to prove that so-and-so actually is a draw. This is not a high school debate team, you do not need to cite your sources to justify a completely subjective viewpoint.

In the words of Arnold Schwarzenegger as Mr. Freeze, everybody chill. Okay?

[Bo Rida]

Nothing particularly wrong with doing any of these, it's often natural, however I think it would be nicer if we all tried:

Keeping repeated talking points to one thread to avoid controversy spilling over into others.

Avoid repeating the same take too often. We all do it, only so much we can say without repetition but for example if you think Jon Moxley should wear pink trunks that's fine but we don't need to hear it every time he's on screen.

Judging things on their own merits rather than comparing to other companies past or present. Sometimes it's the best way to make a point but often it's not needed. Bret Hart may have had great success in pink but that doesn't mean Moxley should wear it.

Avoid sounding like an authority promo. Talk about the business side of things in relevant threads but if someone likes/hates something creatively they don't need it explained why that is/isn't good for business, that has no baring on their individual enjoyment.

[ppl591]

One thing I see is dismissing people's opinion. Disagree. Sure. But if I say that match sucked. Responding with nah it was great isn't constructive. Saying oh I enjoyed it or something similar should be the go to.

[This Player Hating Mothman]

So, in a Dynamite live thread somewhere around two months ago, we were doing the usual live thread stuff, and a guy just out of the f***ing blue started posting transphobic slurs about Sammy Guevara or some shit with zero provocation. And like all at once, despite going on back and forth about what qualified as 'too much ROH', everyone in the live thread turned on that one guy immediately because that was unacceptable and bad and we all f***ing knew it. In that moment everyone was pretty united in just telling that guy to f*** off. It was a great moment for the board and part of why this is where I keep hanging my hat. I believe that member is no longer around, for the good of everyone, so this isn't necessarily like a finger-point at him or anything. I'd definitely like to see less transphobia, obviously, but.

The point is more that that's the kind of shit that should provoke a fight in a live thread. The energy of a bunch of people lighting up one person who said somthing should be saved for someone saying something reprehensible and as a rebuke. Not so much a constant back and forth of arguing against takes you benignly disagree with. Live threads are best when the atmosphere is loose and shitposty and it's tough to have that if people are avoiding live threads and if the people in live threads are stuck in arguments all the time. I can't get Photoshop up to stick Wheeler Yuta's head on the voice crack nerd guy from The Simpsons if I'm having to defend thinking Yuta is a powerdork.

[khali]

What’s weird to me about AEW discussions here as that so much of it turns into a discussion about how we discuss AEW. If you see a multi page thread about a booking discussion, at some point that thread is going to turn into a debate about how the thread or section in general is going. Do we need to accuse people of being too positive or negative in every thread? Do we need to discuss whether or not we can criticize AEW in every thread? Most discussions end up becoming a dog chasing its own tail.

Every discussion is too serious and meta and navel gazing (not this one, in general). The Gunns winning the tag titles isn’t heavy enough to need a dozen pages, whether you agree or not.

[Zone Was Wrong]

Honestly I've learned when not to continue a back and forth and even when not to begin the back and forth in the first place. Even if I disagree with the idea of an angle (loved the spraypainted ass) I'm not going to quote someone and give them all the reasons they should love it too. Sometimes it's best to just let things lie.

Another thing I've learned is if something is just going to make me mad or annoyed, to stop watching or posting in the weekly threads about it. Raw is boring to me and annoys me even today, so I don't bother with the Raw threads for the most part to just misery watch/post. It's honestly just not healthy to do so.

[Cyno]

The whole "well, the crowd loved it!" thing is weird to me because I've seen it used to defend decisions in the WWE forum, too. And elsewhere on the internet no matter what company is being discussed. I don't know why that matters.

[Dr. Bolty, Disaster Enby]

Feb 21, 2023 18:40:50 GMT -5 Cyno said:

The whole "well, the crowd loved it!" thing is weird to me because I've seen it used to defend decisions in the WWE forum, too. And elsewhere on the internet no matter what company is being discussed. I don't know why that matters.

As I see it, "the crowd loved it" is a valid response to "it wasn't over" or "nobody would like this."

It's not a valid response to anything that it is not actually directly addressing.

[Cyno]

Feb 21, 2023 18:42:12 GMT -5 Dr. Bolty, Disaster Enby said:

Feb 21, 2023 18:40:50 GMT -5 Cyno said:

The whole "well, the crowd loved it!" thing is weird to me because I've seen it used to defend decisions in the WWE forum, too. And elsewhere on the internet no matter what company is being discussed. I don't know why that matters.

As I see it, "the crowd loved it" is a valid response to "it wasn't over" or "nobody would like this."

It's not a valid response to anything that it is not actually directly addressing.

Agreed. That's a perfectly reasonable response to people who have a tendency to state their opinions as fact. Just weird when it's used to defend me hypothetically saying "Jay Lethal bores me" or "I'm tired of Brock Lesnar matches." lol

[Zone Was Wrong]

Feb 21, 2023 18:42:12 GMT -5 Dr. Bolty, Disaster Enby said:

Feb 21, 2023 18:40:50 GMT -5 Cyno said:

The whole "well, the crowd loved it!" thing is weird to me because I've seen it used to defend decisions in the WWE forum, too. And elsewhere on the internet no matter what company is being discussed. I don't know why that matters.

As I see it, "the crowd loved it" is a valid response to "it wasn't over" or "nobody would like this."

It's not a valid response to anything that it is not actually directly addressing.

Right, I know plenty of people who have, rightfully, stated just because the crowd loved it, doesn't that person should as well. So using the crowd as a measure for someone's personal enjoyment of something isn't very valid. On the other hand, if, like you said, we're talking about whether or not it's an angle or gimmick that "no one likes or will like" then the crowd response is an apt measure to that comment.

[Xxcjb01xX [PIECE OF: SH-]]

Feb 21, 2023 18:35:33 GMT -5 Zone Was Wrong said:

Honestly I've learned when not to continue a back and forth and even when not to begin the back and forth in the first place. Even if I disagree with the idea of an angle (loved the spraypainted ass) I'm not going to quote someone and give them all the reasons they should love it too. Sometimes it's best to just let things lie.

Another thing I've learned is if something is just going to make me mad or annoyed, to stop watching or posting in the weekly threads about it. Raw is boring to me and annoys me even today, so I don't bother with the Raw threads for the most part to just misery watch/post. It's honestly just not healthy to do so.

I myself, have been trying to be as civil and calm as possible when I do respond or debate things anymore, because I've found that if I word something wrong it can lead to even worse debates or the wrong idea on my end, and I don't want that for other users

There can still be discussions that can lead to pitfalls just based off of the overall tension or mood of the thread, but in many cases I have just let threads go for pages at a time before I either provide input or responses later, just because in some cases, my input or feedback will not be needed, someone will have already said the thing I wanted to, which is great

I really do think in most cases we do have very civil discussion here, or I wouldn't be here, I think what it really comes down to is how angry or personal we take a wrestling take, which it really shouldn't come down to

As several people have already said above me... taking a breath, realizing it's just a wrestling show, and not something to go for the throat over, is something that can only continue to help this board. Especially as Mothman said, in places where it really matters.

[Xxcjb01xX [PIECE OF: SH-]]

Feb 21, 2023 18:47:22 GMT -5 Zone Was Wrong said:

Feb 21, 2023 18:42:12 GMT -5 Dr. Bolty, Disaster Enby said:

As I see it, "the crowd loved it" is a valid response to "it wasn't over" or "nobody would like this."

It's not a valid response to anything that it is not actually directly addressing.

Right, I know plenty of people who have, rightfully, stated just because the crowd loved it, doesn't that person should as well. So using the crowd as a measure for someone's personal enjoyment of something isn't very valid. On the other hand, if, like you said, we're talking about whether or not it's an angle or gimmick that "no one likes or will like" then the crowd response is an apt measure to that comment.

I feel the same thing can be said about ratings. We get "That did a low number, so we should just scrap this altogether" hyperbole in way too many ratings threads. It's beyond tiring to tie wrestlers, entire title belts, or sometimes ENTIRE COMPANIES to dips and rises in a Nielson ratings system

Ratings should be a fun or interesting statistic, not something to weaponize against companies, wrestlers, and whole brands because of a loss of a couple thousand viewers or demo. It's way worse other places, obviously, but that's a big reason I don't discuss wrestling in those places. Ratings drops should not be as serious as they are for AEW. Following trends is fun, condemning shows/segments/brands as a whole is a bit less so

Give me more Tribal Chief Bunny and less "time to end this because they were the bad quarter" 

[Celexa Bliss 54]

I feel like this section of the board has calmed down massively compared to the discord that ran rampant last spring and summer. But there's always room for improvement, especially when it comes to certain hot button topics. I do feel like there are people who make it a point to troll others for no reason other than to rile them up, and those people know who they are.

As far as the section at large, I agree with a lot of what's been said, especially the points about people needing to take a deep breath and remember that it's just a TV show. I simply don't have the energy to invest in over-analyzing every segment that airs on Dynamite or Rampage. And I definitely don't have the energy, nor am I well-spoken enough, to argue about it. Hell, I've rewritten this paragraph three times because I don't know what I want to say lol

I just have more fun shitposting in the live threads than I do engaging in serious discussion. Doesn't mean I don't love the product, because I absolutely do. I just hate confrontation and having to defend my opinions. It's wrestling. Can't we all just relax and have fun?

[Super Duper Dragunov]

It's easy to say "do this or that" but difficult for some to put into practice.

On both sides we've had people being called out and they say "I'm sorry, I'll try and do better"...and then a week goes by, and it's pretty tame. It's nice. Some of us start to post more and share our thoughts.

And then without fail the same people fall back into the same patterns. It's like they lost all sense of self-awareness they had about themselves, because it's too ingrained in them to be this way.

I don't know, we've seen that cycle at least a dozen times now, and I'm convinced for those people that being that way is like a drug, and they're addicted to it. For whatever reason they always relapse and they can't help themselves.
(best analogy I could think of)

It's easy to say I'm doing better, and I commend that people are taking the intiative to try, but it's also easy to look and see that there's still counterpoints to damn near everything and your post ratio in a thread is 10 to 1.

Then we start the cycle all over again, and I stop posting here as much.

[sabretooth]

Better crafting.

You guys suck at macaroni art.

[Mozenrath]

Feb 21, 2023 21:59:09 GMT -5 sabretooth said:

Better crafting.

You guys suck at macaroni art.

The recycling hasn't been emptied in days, too.

[kingoftheindies]

Feb 21, 2023 17:58:31 GMT -5 Kalmia said:

Two things:

Re: negativity

AEW isn't perfect. Being negative about things is fine and should never be discouraged. But if all you have to say about AEW is negative, then maybe AEW just isn't for you. And that's fine! No promotion is for everyone. I rarely post in the WWE forum these days because WWE is no longer for me and I'd only be negative there.

Re: positivity

Defending what you like is great. Being positive about things is great. But most of the time, people's criticism of something isn't rooted in bias or not understanding the story. It's simply that they don't like it and it isn't to their tastes. Being relentlessly positive in direct response to someone being critical isn't going to get anyone anywhere but frustrated.

That's my (hopefully) constructive criticism.

I think to add to it is, we just gotta not argue to argue. Debate is fine but too often it goes this way.

Person A: "I didn't like that"

Person B: "How could you not like that?"

Person A: Screw you

Person C: Yeah you're a jerk screw you.

[Deleted]

Instead of pages of back and forth arguments, there can clearly be only one way to resolve our differences: