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Post by kingoftheindies on May 17, 2023 6:41:37 GMT -5
Drake Younger/Wuertz was scheduled to wrestle some recent indy events, no idea if those stuck but I remember seeing a poster maybe on Facebook? He just retired due to injuries from a deathmatch tournament. He decided he'd rather heal and be a dad than go back to deathmatches fulltime again |
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Post by Hacksaw Chuggin' on May 17, 2023 13:41:02 GMT -5
I appreciate this may be controversial, but for those that carried out more minor offences, do we feel that a shot at rehabilitation with a second chance would be fair? A lot of time has passed and to me, it feels a little harsh that someone should be blackballed forever for say one mistake they may have made in their younger years.
For example, you wouldn't see a electrician barred from his industry for years for something where criminal charges weren't even pressed. These individuals are never going to be reaching the top of the industry given their past, but to deny them work at all in their professional field forever seems wrong.
If an individual is contrite and shows a willingness to improve and change as a person, should they get that chance within the industry albeit at a lower level? Be keen to hear your thoughts guys.
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Ultimo Gallos
Grimlock
Dreams SUCK!Nightmares live FOREVER!
Posts: 14,373 
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Post by Ultimo Gallos on May 17, 2023 15:19:53 GMT -5
I mentioned in my post someone that got canceled and is trying to make amends. What he got canceled for is minor compared to most of the others on the list.
So far it is half and half on the people that know and see this guy if they forgive him or not.
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Post by EvenBaldobombHasAJob on May 17, 2023 19:44:11 GMT -5
I appreciate this may be controversial, but for those that carried out more minor offences, do we feel that a shot at rehabilitation with a second chance would be fair? A lot of time has passed and to me, it feels a little harsh that someone should be blackballed forever for say one mistake they may have made in their younger years. For example, you wouldn't see a electrician barred from his industry for years for something where criminal charges weren't even pressed. These individuals are never going to be reaching the top of the industry given their past, but to deny them work at all in their professional field forever seems wrong. If an individual is contrite and shows a willingness to improve and change as a person, should they get that chance within the industry albeit at a lower level? Be keen to hear your thoughts guys. It depends for me. What did they do, how credible are the allegations and have their victims forgiven them? It's not going to be something that has the same answer every time, context is everything. But, in most cases it's probably for the best if they find a new line of work. |
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Post by kingoftheindies on May 17, 2023 21:28:32 GMT -5
I appreciate this may be controversial, but for those that carried out more minor offences, do we feel that a shot at rehabilitation with a second chance would be fair? A lot of time has passed and to me, it feels a little harsh that someone should be blackballed forever for say one mistake they may have made in their younger years. For example, you wouldn't see a electrician barred from his industry for years for something where criminal charges weren't even pressed. These individuals are never going to be reaching the top of the industry given their past, but to deny them work at all in their professional field forever seems wrong. If an individual is contrite and shows a willingness to improve and change as a person, should they get that chance within the industry albeit at a lower level? Be keen to hear your thoughts guys. It depends for sure, like a lot of the people who show up in XPW? Legit terrible people who are known abusers so would prefer them being cancelled. People with different political views to be nice? may think they're crappy people but I'm not going to say they don't deserve to work as long as they aren't hurting people or people or being bigots People like Tessa Blanchard who just keep blowing chances by being entitled assholes that are difficult to work with? Will call them dumbasses every time they blow a chance |
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FinalGwen
Bill S. Preston, Esq.
Particularly fond of muffins.
Posts: 16,428 
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Post by FinalGwen on May 17, 2023 21:38:55 GMT -5
I appreciate this may be controversial, but for those that carried out more minor offences, do we feel that a shot at rehabilitation with a second chance would be fair? A lot of time has passed and to me, it feels a little harsh that someone should be blackballed forever for say one mistake they may have made in their younger years. For example, you wouldn't see a electrician barred from his industry for years for something where criminal charges weren't even pressed. These individuals are never going to be reaching the top of the industry given their past, but to deny them work at all in their professional field forever seems wrong. If an individual is contrite and shows a willingness to improve and change as a person, should they get that chance within the industry albeit at a lower level? Be keen to hear your thoughts guys. I mean, are people even being blackballed? As this whole thread indicates, it seems like in the world of wrestling there's very little someone can do that'll make them persona non grata, the most frequent 'minor offences' being discussed here are offences involving minors, and yet when they've got name value or the right mates (hi Will Ospreay) they can waltz back in at any time. Also I think it's worth taking into account that wrestling isn't your typical trade. You're given an audience and a spotlight, and given how often the power dynamic that creates with fans has been abused, I don't think it's necessarily unfair to take that away when people can't be trusted with it. |
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Post by KAMALARAMBO: BOOMSHAKALAKA!!! on May 17, 2023 21:46:37 GMT -5
It depends on the circumstances as every offense being a career death sentence would be overkill. People deserve the chance to learn and grow from their mistakes.
On the other end of the spectrum there are plenty of cases of, “Yeah, f*** that guy.” I mean look how long Buck Zumhofe hid in plain sight for.
And even people who aren’t at Buck Zumhofe level (Is there anyone? He might just be the worst of the worst.) would better serve all involved if they just looked for a new line of work. Look at Joey Ryan vs. Jimmy Havoc. #Speakingout gave evidence to some really heinous things involving each guy. But Ryan kept trying to dig his way back into the industry at the expense of others including his accusers. Meanwhile Havoc retired, moved on, and at least didn’t appear to be actively harming anyone involved in the industry any longer.
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Ultimo Gallos
Grimlock
Dreams SUCK!Nightmares live FOREVER!
Posts: 14,373
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Post by Ultimo Gallos on May 18, 2023 11:27:27 GMT -5
Like most have said it is a case by case basis for me.
Out of the 4 on the infamous list I have met.
Byrom Wilcot-I doubt I forgive him
Joey Ryan-Nope
Luke Hawx-No clue cause the list never had anythng on it about what luke was accused of. If it is the stuff I already know,just being an asshat and stealing a student's wife,ehhhh maybe.
REDACTED-Dude is out of wrestling changed his life and going around making amends. So yea,had a talk with him last time I saw him. Then we chatted the other day. Got shown some Danny Hodge signed stuff he owns he got when his father passed.
Helps that 2 of the women he was not so nice too have forgiven him.
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Post by Fake Jesus on May 18, 2023 11:38:19 GMT -5
I appreciate this may be controversial, but for those that carried out more minor offences, do we feel that a shot at rehabilitation with a second chance would be fair? A lot of time has passed and to me, it feels a little harsh that someone should be blackballed forever for say one mistake they may have made in their younger years. For example, you wouldn't see a electrician barred from his industry for years for something where criminal charges weren't even pressed. These individuals are never going to be reaching the top of the industry given their past, but to deny them work at all in their professional field forever seems wrong. If an individual is contrite and shows a willingness to improve and change as a person, should they get that chance within the industry albeit at a lower level? Be keen to hear your thoughts guys. It's not a professional field, it's f***ing wrestling. No matter how many times Hunter or Cody say "this business" it's some dude getting into the ring in his underwear and pretending irish whips are real. If you luck out and get an opportunity to use your passion for money and then ruin it by being a sleazebag, go get an actual job ya ghoul |
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chazraps
Wade Wilson
Better have my money when I come-a collect!
Posts: 27,955
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Post by chazraps on May 18, 2023 15:20:08 GMT -5
I appreciate this may be controversial, but for those that carried out more minor offences, do we feel that a shot at rehabilitation with a second chance would be fair? A lot of time has passed and to me, it feels a little harsh that someone should be blackballed forever for say one mistake they may have made in their younger years. No, next question. |
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Post by EvenBaldobombHasAJob on May 19, 2023 8:46:23 GMT -5
I think it is telling that while these guys have resurfaced, it's mostly low grade shindy outlaw mudshows.
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Post by "Gizzark" Mike Wronglevenay on May 19, 2023 11:18:41 GMT -5
I understand the point that having once been abusive to one woman is different to say, Vince
However most wrestlers have such little notoriety that they can transition to any other job without, say, having to deal every day with being asked 'hey aren't you Louis CK?'
Being blackballed from wrestling (which, again, basically nobody is or ever has been) does not mean you cannot live a normal life or earn money. Basically none of these people faced legal problems and even fewer faced criminal charges, despite in many cases committing serious crimes.
I work in an industry where a non violent, one-off offense can mean I can never work again as I would not pass a DBS check. Cry me a river. None of these f***s face any consequences that any of them should be pitied for, save the usual Internet abuse bullshit that anyone can fall prey to and is f***ed up in every single occasion
And even the more famous ones, it only really is a problem to be blackballed if you have saved no money. Ric Flair should have enough money to never work again. But he doesn't. That is his fault.
And he isn't blackballed anyway.
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Post by Hacksaw Chuggin' on May 19, 2023 17:40:38 GMT -5
Thanks for the responses all. It's a very sensitive topic to try and discuss.
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Magnus the Magnificent
King Koopa
didn't want one.
I could write a book about what you don't know!
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Post by Magnus the Magnificent on May 19, 2023 17:54:04 GMT -5
I think it is telling that while these guys have resurfaced, it's mostly low grade shindy outlaw mudshows. It's 2023, and if you're booking Joey Ryan, Dreake Wuertz, Bill DeMott et al... YOU MIGHT BE AN OUTLAW MUDSHOW! |
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Post by KingPooper on May 21, 2023 23:25:29 GMT -5
I appreciate this may be controversial, but for those that carried out more minor offences, do we feel that a shot at rehabilitation with a second chance would be fair? A lot of time has passed and to me, it feels a little harsh that someone should be blackballed forever for say one mistake they may have made in their younger years. For example, you wouldn't see a electrician barred from his industry for years for something where criminal charges weren't even pressed. These individuals are never going to be reaching the top of the industry given their past, but to deny them work at all in their professional field forever seems wrong. If an individual is contrite and shows a willingness to improve and change as a person, should they get that chance within the industry albeit at a lower level? Be keen to hear your thoughts guys. What Marty did years ago was messed up and inexcusable, dude lost out on millions and has been blackballed from every major promotion (I still expect him to show up in NWA one day.) while I probably wouldn’t but a ticket to see him, I’m perfectly fine with the guy working low level indies. On the other hand you have guys like Jimmy Uso or Jeff Hardy who have eight DUI between them in the past ten years. I really hate those guys keep getting chances, but everyone’s mileage will very. |
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chazraps
Wade Wilson
Better have my money when I come-a collect!
Posts: 27,955
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Post by chazraps on May 22, 2023 15:52:46 GMT -5
Drake Younger/Wuertz was scheduled to wrestle some recent indy events, no idea if those stuck but I remember seeing a poster maybe on Facebook? He just retired due to injuries from a deathmatch tournament. He decided he'd rather heal and be a dad than go back to deathmatches fulltime again #RetiredSuddenly I appreciate this may be controversial, but for those that carried out more minor offences, do we feel that a shot at rehabilitation with a second chance would be fair? A lot of time has passed and to me, it feels a little harsh that someone should be blackballed forever for say one mistake they may have made in their younger years. For example, you wouldn't see a electrician barred from his industry for years for something where criminal charges weren't even pressed. These individuals are never going to be reaching the top of the industry given their past, but to deny them work at all in their professional field forever seems wrong. If an individual is contrite and shows a willingness to improve and change as a person, should they get that chance within the industry albeit at a lower level? Be keen to hear your thoughts guys. What Marty did years ago was messed up and inexcusable, dude lost out on millions and has been blackballed from every major promotion (I still expect him to show up in NWA one day.) while I probably wouldn’t but a ticket to see him, I’m perfectly fine with the guy working low level indies. On the other hand you have guys like Jimmy Uso or Jeff Hardy who have eight DUI between them in the past ten years. I really hate those guys keep getting chances, but everyone’s mileage will very. My issue with him being on the low level indys is that there's still so much trust involved in wrestling, especially at that smaller indy level with wrestlers just starting their career. Marty was a teacher who got his underage student drunk and then had sex with her. That's the ultimate breaking of trust and I just don't think it's safe for him to be around anyone in the industry. That's a direct wrestling-related "This guy is bad for our co-workers and talent to be around." |
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Post by James Fabiano on May 29, 2023 15:27:12 GMT -5
Here's something I wondered...
Are there any wrestlers that personally trigger you?
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Wardlow on Wardlow 54
Wade Wilson
Don't get Wardlow'd by your Wardlow if you can't Wardlow them back
Posts: 29,451
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Post by Wardlow on Wardlow 54 on May 29, 2023 15:54:17 GMT -5
Here's something I wondered... Are there any wrestlers that personally trigger you? Personally, no. But I wouldn't blame someone who was sexually abused for being triggered if they saw Joey Ryan or Marty Scurll make an appearance. |
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Post by Viking Hall on May 30, 2023 4:53:13 GMT -5
I definitely think there's a conversation to be had as to why wrestlers are held to a far higher standard than just about any other form of entertainer or athlete. To be perfectly blunt, the majority of wrestlers who had their careers derailed by the Speaking Out movement would have barely skipped a beat if they had worked in any other form of entertainment or sporting arena, let alone be facing the prospect of never working in their chosen field again.
Part of me wonders if the advent of social media, and the ease we're able to connect with wrestlers (even those at the top of the industry) gives wrestling fans more of a sense of ownership or a personal connection that most industries just don't have. Also the fact that most wrestlers represent themselves, whereas virtually every other entertainer or sportsperson tends to have agents and PR people that control the narrative around their clients probably lends itself to this as well.
I certainly wouldn't tell anyone who they should and shouldn't support, but I definitely find it interesting to see who is persona-non-grata to wrestling fans, when you consider some of the people who are idolised and making a living in other industries.
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Post by James Fabiano on May 30, 2023 11:30:12 GMT -5
Here's something I wondered... Are there any wrestlers that personally trigger you? Personally, no. But I wouldn't blame someone who was sexually abused for being triggered if they saw Joey Ryan or Marty Scurll make an appearance. Well that happens to wrestlers who were impolite or worse to me or someone I know. But I've talked about that enough. Non-personal examples? Well the obvious one: Chris Benoit, of course. |
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