Wardlow on Wardlow 54
Wade Wilson
Don't get Wardlow'd by your Wardlow if you can't Wardlow them back
Posts: 29,504
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Post by Wardlow on Wardlow 54 on May 30, 2023 11:43:54 GMT -5
Personally, no. But I wouldn't blame someone who was sexually abused for being triggered if they saw Joey Ryan or Marty Scurll make an appearance. Well that happens to wrestlers who were impolite or worse to me or someone I know. But I've talked about that enough. Non-personal examples? Well the obvious one: Chris Benoit, of course. Benoit is complicated for me. At first, it didn't really deter me from watching his stuff. As time has gone on, it's hard for me to watch stuff from his last year or so, knowing what was to come. But for example, I'm currently watching WCW from the fall of 1996. This is when the storyline with him and Woman was just starting. I haven't gone back and watched this since it first aired. So we'll see how I feel as I watch it unfold. But like, I can watch old CHIKARA DVDs, for example, and enjoy them for what they are, without thinking about the company's ultimate fate.
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Post by EP 54 is banned from Collision on May 30, 2023 11:54:48 GMT -5
I definitely think there's a conversation to be had as to why wrestlers are held to a far higher standard than just about any other form of entertainer or athlete. To be perfectly blunt, the majority of wrestlers who had their careers derailed by the Speaking Out movement would have barely skipped a beat if they had worked in any other form of entertainment or sporting arena, let alone be facing the prospect of never working in their chosen field again. Part of me wonders if the advent of social media, and the ease we're able to connect with wrestlers (even those at the top of the industry) gives wrestling fans more of a sense of ownership or a personal connection that most industries just don't have. Also the fact that most wrestlers represent themselves, whereas virtually every other entertainer or sportsperson tends to have agents and PR people that control the narrative around their clients probably lends itself to this as well. I certainly wouldn't tell anyone who they should and shouldn't support, but I definitely find it interesting to see who is persona-non-grata to wrestling fans, when you consider some of the people who are idolised and making a living in other industries. I think the fact that (most) wrestlers don't have PR and lawyer advice is the big one. Marty Scurll for example, could have made all the right noises, apologised for his behaviour, donated money to women's groups etc and be in AEW right now earning serious cash. (assuming no-one else came forward) Instead he went "well, it was technically legal" which has to be the worst move anyone who's done anything morally dubious could possibly make. That's why athletes and personalities get away with stuff.
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Post by Psicofreak667 on May 30, 2023 12:42:53 GMT -5
I don't get "triggered", but here's something that makes me really angry.
A podcast with Phil Brooks and Scott Colton was unearthed where they bragged about the way they mistreated a particularly devoted fangirl during their Second City Saints days. They tricked her into spending money on them and having sex with them by promising they'd help help her break into the business, then when they went to train her, broke her bones on purpose so they wouldn't have to do it. This, objectively, puts them at the level of the worst of the worst of the guys who were called out during #SpeakingOut. But, partly because Phil Brooks is one of the biggest superstars in the business and Scott Colton has a reputation as one of the nicest guys in the business, it's not getting any traction. The fact that there's no way Tony Khan is going to do anything about it, and where's the fun in performative outrage when you know the target is going to get away with it scot-free, has something to do with it too.
Same with Will Ospreay. The fact that International Wrestling League flat out confirmed that Ospreay leveraged them into blacklisting Polly Anna and protecting Scott Wainwright, only to retract a couple weeks, stinks. But because NJPW had already made it clear they didn't care and Ospreay was going to get away with it, everyone basically said "whew, glad we can ignore this one now" instead of "no, seriously?"
Although protecting a rapist and helping punish his victim is really low, it's still above rape through deception accompanied by mental physical and financial abuse. Which you know, is something Phil Brooks/CM Punk and Scott Colton/Colt Cabana bragged about doing.
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salz4life
Grimlock
Prichard is a guy who gets that his job is to service his boss.
Posts: 13,947
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Post by salz4life on May 30, 2023 12:49:52 GMT -5
I don't get "triggered", but here's something that makes me really angry. A podcast with Phil Brooks and Scott Colton was unearthed where they bragged about the way they mistreated a particularly devoted fangirl during their Second City Saints days. They tricked her into spending money on them and having sex with them by promising they'd help help her break into the business, then when they went to train her, broke her bones on purpose so they wouldn't have to do it. This, objectively, puts them at the level of the worst of the worst of the guys who were called out during #SpeakingOut. But, partly because Phil Brooks is one of the biggest superstars in the business and Scott Colton has a reputation as one of the nicest guys in the business, it's not getting any traction. The fact that there's no way Tony Khan is going to do anything about it, and where's the fun in performative outrage when you know the target is going to get away with it scot-free, has something to do with it too. Same with Will Ospreay. The fact that International Wrestling League flat out confirmed that Ospreay leveraged them into blacklisting Polly Anna and protecting Scott Wainwright, only to retract a couple weeks, stinks. But because NJPW had already made it clear they didn't care and Ospreay was going to get away with it, everyone basically said "whew, glad we can ignore this one now" instead of "no, seriously?" Although protecting a rapist and helping punish his victim is really low, it's still above rape through deception accompanied by mental physical and financial abuse. Which you know, is something Phil Brooks/CM Punk and Scott Colton/Colt Cabana bragged about doing. Hadn't heard that about Punk and Cabana. If that's true, that's true scumbag work!
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Post by kingoftheindies on May 30, 2023 22:33:41 GMT -5
I don't get "triggered", but here's something that makes me really angry. A podcast with Phil Brooks and Scott Colton was unearthed where they bragged about the way they mistreated a particularly devoted fangirl during their Second City Saints days. They tricked her into spending money on them and having sex with them by promising they'd help help her break into the business, then when they went to train her, broke her bones on purpose so they wouldn't have to do it. This, objectively, puts them at the level of the worst of the worst of the guys who were called out during #SpeakingOut. But, partly because Phil Brooks is one of the biggest superstars in the business and Scott Colton has a reputation as one of the nicest guys in the business, it's not getting any traction. The fact that there's no way Tony Khan is going to do anything about it, and where's the fun in performative outrage when you know the target is going to get away with it scot-free, has something to do with it too. Same with Will Ospreay. The fact that International Wrestling League flat out confirmed that Ospreay leveraged them into blacklisting Polly Anna and protecting Scott Wainwright, only to retract a couple weeks, stinks. But because NJPW had already made it clear they didn't care and Ospreay was going to get away with it, everyone basically said "whew, glad we can ignore this one now" instead of "no, seriously?" Although protecting a rapist and helping punish his victim is really low, it's still above rape through deception accompanied by mental physical and financial abuse. Which you know, is something Phil Brooks/CM Punk and Scott Colton/Colt Cabana bragged about doing. Hadn't heard that about Punk and Cabana. If that's true, that's true scumbag work! Yeah the Punk/Colt stuff got a bit of traction on twitter with a lot of indy wrestlers basically saying "yeah it sucks and wouldn't fly today, but that's just how things were back then". That's not be dismissing it, but that's basically why it kind of died down. It's kind of like how it was a fairly open secret for years before the Speaking Out Movement that Quack and his inner circle at Chikara were pretty scummy but it was overlooked cause Chikara was fun.
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Post by "Gizzark" Mike Wronglevenay on May 31, 2023 5:27:57 GMT -5
Here's something I wondered... Are there any wrestlers that personally trigger you? That isn't what triggering means
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Post by eJm on May 31, 2023 5:31:41 GMT -5
As much as I look forward to the Rev Pro show and being in the Copper Box, a umbrella shaped shadow is looming around that show. Like, the chances of it happening are small considering Rev Pro, for their faults, are a promotion that doesn't cower from decisions on social media so they know the backlash it'd cause after their biggest show to date but it's there.
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Post by James Fabiano on May 31, 2023 6:40:00 GMT -5
Here's something I wondered... Are there any wrestlers that personally trigger you? That isn't what triggering means OK then....maybe I should have said...are there any canceled wrestlers (or otherwise) that bother you by just seeing them?
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Post by kingoftheindies on May 31, 2023 22:30:44 GMT -5
I will say this, for a lot of the wrestlers who were cancelled in the US trying to make comebacks almost all are relegated to working XPW shows
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chazraps
Wade Wilson
Better have my money when I come-a collect!
Posts: 27,955
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Post by chazraps on May 31, 2023 22:36:29 GMT -5
That isn't what triggering means OK then....maybe I should have said...are there any canceled wrestlers (or otherwise) that bother you by just seeing them? I can't watch Austin Aries matches anymore. Serial rapist piece of shit. Hate it when he pops up on an old ROH show or an extensive compilation I'm enjoying. I'll sometimes try to see if I can as it'll be something like another prime era Morishima or someone else I really like against him, but his presence just takes me out of it entirely. Used to be a huge fan too.
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Post by Alice Syndrome on Jun 1, 2023 6:20:03 GMT -5
That isn't what triggering means OK then....maybe I should have said...are there any canceled wrestlers (or otherwise) that bother you by just seeing them? Robinson and Ospreay
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Post by kingoftheindies on Jun 1, 2023 7:43:04 GMT -5
That isn't what triggering means OK then....maybe I should have said...are there any canceled wrestlers (or otherwise) that bother you by just seeing them? Kimber Lee. Weird one but just knowing how she's lied about her exes, and about any abuse she has received while also downplaying what other women go through sits wrong with me
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Post by YAKMAN is ICHIBAN on Jun 1, 2023 7:50:10 GMT -5
I don't get "triggered", but here's something that makes me really angry. A podcast with Phil Brooks and Scott Colton was unearthed where they bragged about the way they mistreated a particularly devoted fangirl during their Second City Saints days. They tricked her into spending money on them and having sex with them by promising they'd help help her break into the business, then when they went to train her, broke her bones on purpose so they wouldn't have to do it. This, objectively, puts them at the level of the worst of the worst of the guys who were called out during #SpeakingOut. But, partly because Phil Brooks is one of the biggest superstars in the business and Scott Colton has a reputation as one of the nicest guys in the business, it's not getting any traction. The fact that there's no way Tony Khan is going to do anything about it, and where's the fun in performative outrage when you know the target is going to get away with it scot-free, has something to do with it too. Same with Will Ospreay. The fact that International Wrestling League flat out confirmed that Ospreay leveraged them into blacklisting Polly Anna and protecting Scott Wainwright, only to retract a couple weeks, stinks. But because NJPW had already made it clear they didn't care and Ospreay was going to get away with it, everyone basically said "whew, glad we can ignore this one now" instead of "no, seriously?" Although protecting a rapist and helping punish his victim is really low, it's still above rape through deception accompanied by mental physical and financial abuse. Which you know, is something Phil Brooks/CM Punk and Scott Colton/Colt Cabana bragged about doing. I think one other reason it isn't getting traction is that the victim hasn't come forward at all. As far as I know her name isn't even publicly known. That all makes it easier to brush off. It just makes you wonder what else went on if this was the stuff they laughed about and bragged about publicly. For anyone wondering here is the video and a transcript (which I copied from the recent reddit post on it) www.youtube.com/watch?v=ebsBgngMVGU&t=3353s
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Post by KAMALARAMBO: BOOMSHAKALAKA!!! on Jun 1, 2023 9:30:04 GMT -5
For the CM Punk/Colt thing it’s definitely a combination of the person not coming forward mixed with who they are.
For the first point just look how Ric Flair’s behavior on the Plane Ride from Hell was treated for years. Even in the Dark Side of the Ring episode Tommy Dreamer and that one ref treat it like a big joke. But when you show a crying airline attendant who was obviously affected by the incident it gives the situation a lot more gravity.
As for who they are, I remember when Speaking Out was at it’s height Terri Runnels accused Brock Lesnar of flashing her. I don’t think WWE or Lesnar even bothered addressing it and few places picked up the story.
Unless the victim comes forward the most I’d expect to happen to Punk or Cabana would be they make a brief video/cryptic post without directly addressing the situation. Since this all came directly from them they’d probably say something like, “I said a lot of stupid things when I was younger,” and since it’s their own words revealing this if pushed they could just say they were bullshitting.
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Post by KAMALARAMBO: BOOMSHAKALAKA!!! on Jul 3, 2023 9:37:30 GMT -5
What’s everyone’s thoughts on cancelled promoters resurfacing?
For those who don’t know Mike Quackenbush actually has an active YouTube channel. And Jim Cornette of course has a VERY active podcast.
I find these two particularly problematic mostly because they can articulate so well in particular giving some insight into wrestling few can express. But at the same time, the baggage both carry. YIKES. And it has nothing to do with what either think of the Bucks and Omega.
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Xxcjb01xX [PIECE OF: SH-]
FANatic
Writer, Lover of all things Wrestling. Analytical, Critical, Lovable (hopefully). Lets all have fun!
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Post by Xxcjb01xX [PIECE OF: SH-] on Jul 3, 2023 9:47:03 GMT -5
What’s everyone’s thoughts on cancelled promoters resurfacing? For those who don’t know Mike Quackenbush actually has an active YouTube channel. And Jim Cornette of course has a VERY active podcast. I find these two particularly problematic mostly because they can articulate so well in particular giving some insight into wrestling few can express. But at the same time, the baggage both carry. YIKES. And it has nothing to do with what either think of the Bucks and Omega. In Quack's case, that Channel seems to be all he has, and people don't seem to care about that There's always a rumbling or two about CHIKARA coming back (The WrestleFactory does still exist but he no longer mans the sessions) but overall Quack kinda just seems out on an island and I don't think he's ever getting off of it. Cornette's is like a cult, unfortunately some people will deflect and say it's humor or he's insightful about old wrestling but we're well past that. But wrestling is also well past him, and outside of his dumb podcast and maybe the odd interview for old stuff like Dark Side of the Ring, he's made his own dumb bed and he gets to lay in it. Hope it's comfy.
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Post by JasonVoorhees1988 on Jul 3, 2023 10:41:05 GMT -5
OK then....maybe I should have said...are there any canceled wrestlers (or otherwise) that bother you by just seeing them? I can't watch Austin Aries matches anymore. Serial rapist piece of shit. Hate it when he pops up on an old ROH show or an extensive compilation I'm enjoying. I'll sometimes try to see if I can as it'll be something like another prime era Morishima or someone else I really like against him, but his presence just takes me out of it entirely. Used to be a huge fan too. I'm out by of the wrestling loop apparently. What did Aries do?
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XIII
Bill S. Preston, Esq.
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Post by XIII on Jul 3, 2023 10:52:45 GMT -5
Vince McMahon is a bigger scumbag than all of these dudes combined and he has more power than ever and just waltzed back in and the WWE is more popular than ever. Food for thought.
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chazraps
Wade Wilson
Better have my money when I come-a collect!
Posts: 27,955
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Post by chazraps on Jul 3, 2023 10:54:19 GMT -5
I can't watch Austin Aries matches anymore. Serial rapist piece of shit. Hate it when he pops up on an old ROH show or an extensive compilation I'm enjoying. I'll sometimes try to see if I can as it'll be something like another prime era Morishima or someone else I really like against him, but his presence just takes me out of it entirely. Used to be a huge fan too. I'm out by of the wrestling loop apparently. What did Aries do? TW: Sexual Abuse, Rape Prolific serial rapist. When Speaking Out happened in 2020, several (As in more than four) women across the country shared the same story of what Aries did to them. He had a method he'd follow: he'd invite a young woman to come out "Drinking with the boys" after a show and have them agree to give him a "ride to his hotel" afterward, stay out with them late until they were the last two there or so and then he'd ask if he could just crash on their floor/couch since it'd take forever to check in as it was too late. They'd oblige, he'd sleep on their couch/floor and she'd fall asleep in her bed. A few hours later she'd wake up to Aries on top of them forcing them to have sex. It'd be sickening enough if he did it to just one, but the fact that multiple women in wholly unconnected scenes and regions had the exact same story is revolting and damning.
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chazraps
Wade Wilson
Better have my money when I come-a collect!
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Post by chazraps on Jul 3, 2023 11:04:33 GMT -5
What’s everyone’s thoughts on cancelled promoters resurfacing? For those who don’t know Mike Quackenbush actually has an active YouTube channel. And Jim Cornette of course has a VERY active podcast. I find these two particularly problematic mostly because they can articulate so well in particular giving some insight into wrestling few can express. But at the same time, the baggage both carry. YIKES. And it has nothing to do with what either think of the Bucks and Omega. Neither have any place in the business. Both have hurt FAR more than they've helped. I know people have warm memories of Chikara or Memphis or vintage NWA - but they aren't the only ones who can share those memories and all their worthwhile stories - after two decades of shoots - are already out there. Plus, Cornette hasn't been in touch with what makes for a good wrestling show or what wrestling fans want for, what, 13 years now? Rewatch any 2012 ROH show and tell me anything (other than the extremely talented who can make anything work like Steen or Corino) is remotely watchable. And Quack really doesn't know shit. Just because he can emphasize every syllable like he's striking a match doesn't mean he's sharing anything others haven't already said. Cornette pressured talent into f***ing his wife during his OVW tenure. Quack lead a mentally abusive degrading cult-like outfit. They make their money from podcast listens and youtube views - each listen puts money in their pocket. And Cornette's podcast has had sooooo many openly prejudiced moments. The anti-semitism in 2015, the anti-Muslim comments in 2016 (far BEYOND his standard critiques on religion), the casual homophobia of his Kenny Omega comments, the casual anti-asian sentiments whenever he discusses Joshi talent, the casual transphobia about Nyla Rose - that's SUCH a list when you consider the voices who echo the sentiment of "I can look past the racism and homophobia because I want to hear the same Bobby Eaton stories again."
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