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Post by kingoftheindies on Dec 2, 2023 10:49:28 GMT -5
The Hardys have to be realistic here. They’re both closing in on 50 years old, having wrestled pretty much non-stop since their mid-late teens (30+ years), a lot of which involved jumping off of high things and falling through things. This career of theirs has put them through the wringer, and they’ve got the scars, gait and police records to prove it. I’m not even sure they’re physically useful as enhancement guys at this point. They can look at Copeland and Cage all they like, the fact is they didn’t do as much the hardcore stuff after 2001 and also, and this is the important bit, they both spent YEARS out of the ring (Copeland about nine years, Cage six or seven), allowing their bodies to heal up to the point where they could do these comeback runs. You mentioned it briefly but besides the LOOONG stretch of time they took off... Edge and Christian also developed a style away from the Car Crash / Ladder stuff... that's kinda all Jeff had. He was the guy that jumped off things, through other things... he never developed a character beyond that. He was never a promo guy, unlike both Edge and Christian. Matt's been a little different but he was always "The other Hardy" despite actually having a few gimmicks that worked and in genera having better mic skills, he was never the star of the show like his brother. The other issue I've had with Matt is that while he clearly has a great mind for wrestling, he doesn't really seem to have a good grasp of where he is as a performer at th point. While Jeff was suspended for his DUI, how Matt would talk about his brother really made me... uneasy? Felt like he was always brushing the DUI off as no big deal and that he was banking on Jeff getting back and getting the tag titles (which AEW seems to have no interest interest in). Matt also thinks there is big money still in he and Jeff going against Copeland and Christian |
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Nosnorb
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Post by Nosnorb on Dec 2, 2023 11:13:54 GMT -5
You mentioned it briefly but besides the LOOONG stretch of time they took off... Edge and Christian also developed a style away from the Car Crash / Ladder stuff... that's kinda all Jeff had. He was the guy that jumped off things, through other things... he never developed a character beyond that. He was never a promo guy, unlike both Edge and Christian. Matt's been a little different but he was always "The other Hardy" despite actually having a few gimmicks that worked and in genera having better mic skills, he was never the star of the show like his brother. The other issue I've had with Matt is that while he clearly has a great mind for wrestling, he doesn't really seem to have a good grasp of where he is as a performer at th point. While Jeff was suspended for his DUI, how Matt would talk about his brother really made me... uneasy? Felt like he was always brushing the DUI off as no big deal and that he was banking on Jeff getting back and getting the tag titles (which AEW seems to have no interest interest in). Matt also thinks there is big money still in he and Jeff going against Copeland and Christian Leaving aside The Hardy Boys should have a fork stuck in them in ring wise, as of right now Copeland and Christian have been portrayed on a different level to the Hardys and it would feel like a step down. It would also be a waste of both Copeland and Cage given just how hot Christian is and how AEW has no shortage of tag teams that don't have two members that are running on fumes for a reunited E&C to face. |
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Post by xxshoyuweeniexx on Dec 2, 2023 12:33:41 GMT -5
I still think Matt has some use as a tv character or manager, even if it’s simply Broken stuff with Danhausen or whatever. But he’s gotta realize him and his brother are cooked as actual in-ring talent and let it go. It happens to every wrestler dude, it’s just not your time anymore.
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Facetious
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Post by Facetious on Dec 2, 2023 12:50:50 GMT -5
I still think Matt has some use as a tv character or manager, even if it’s simply Broken stuff with Danhausen or whatever. But he’s gotta realize him and his brother are cooked as actual in-ring talent and let it go. It happens to every wrestler dude, it’s just not your time anymore. I liked his manager stuff in ROH when he paired himself with SCUM and the Kingdom, but the AEW stuff was bad. It just highlighted Matt and really set Private Party (well, injuries didn't help) and Ethan Page back quite a ways. |
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Post by Lizuka #BLM on Dec 2, 2023 12:53:53 GMT -5
Also, the Young Bucks helped Private Party more in a single night in 2019 than Matt has by working with them for literal years now. They have no rub to give now. When they lose I don't think wow that's a huge win for the other team I just think of course they lost, they can barely move, anyone who loses to them looks terrible. So Marq Quen hasn't been around in over a year now, but Whenever he is able to come back we need to get some sort of pay off/passing of the torch moment between the Hardys and PP to get them to that next level as a tag team. When Private Party got that win over Matt & Nick I would have bet money that they would have been tag champs within a year, but then... Honestly I think in the long run the Bucks match kind of hurt Private Party more than it helped, in that it kind of made them look a lot better at that point in their career than they were and once reality set in and they were kind of brought back down they never really recovered from it. |
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chrom
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Post by chrom on Dec 2, 2023 13:55:54 GMT -5
So Marq Quen hasn't been around in over a year now, but Whenever he is able to come back we need to get some sort of pay off/passing of the torch moment between the Hardys and PP to get them to that next level as a tag team. When Private Party got that win over Matt & Nick I would have bet money that they would have been tag champs within a year, but then... Honestly I think in the long run the Bucks match kind of hurt Private Party more than it helped, in that it kind of made them look a lot better at that point in their career than they were and once reality set in and they were kind of brought back down they never really recovered from it. Agreed, sure they won the match, but afterwards they went on to being fodder. Who cares if they beat them 4 years ago when they've accomplished nothing since then? |
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Post by KingPooper on Dec 2, 2023 15:42:33 GMT -5
I just wanted to pop in to say they should have stopped the Hardy / Sammy match. Dude was legit knocked out in a last man standing match.
Secondly the House of Hardy or whatever it was called stuff was hot garbage and went nowhere. I think it’s technically still going on.
By the time a broken down Jeff showed up the writing was on the wall.
Though I will say I loved the Texas Chainsaw match vs. Jarrett… well the parts I could see live.
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bog
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Post by bog on Dec 2, 2023 15:50:20 GMT -5
Matt was actually really beneficial to AEW for awhile
The Broken Stuff was entertaining for awhile and was a godsend for COVID times with the cinematic stuff
Carny matt did a pretty good job elevating private party
Then he brought in Jeff... there's not much value in hardy boy tag matches anymore. I wouldn't be booking them either outside of a few big spots
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Allie Kitsune
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Post by Allie Kitsune on Dec 2, 2023 17:31:14 GMT -5
You mentioned it briefly but besides the LOOONG stretch of time they took off... Edge and Christian also developed a style away from the Car Crash / Ladder stuff... that's kinda all Jeff had. He was the guy that jumped off things, through other things... he never developed a character beyond that. He was never a promo guy, unlike both Edge and Christian. Matt's been a little different but he was always "The other Hardy" despite actually having a few gimmicks that worked and in genera having better mic skills, he was never the star of the show like his brother. The other issue I've had with Matt is that while he clearly has a great mind for wrestling, he doesn't really seem to have a good grasp of where he is as a performer at th point. While Jeff was suspended for his DUI, how Matt would talk about his brother really made me... uneasy? Felt like he was always brushing the DUI off as no big deal and that he was banking on Jeff getting back and getting the tag titles (which AEW seems to have no interest interest in). Matt also thinks there is big money still in he and Jeff going against Copeland and Christian It also gets really, REALLY uncomfortable, because he talks in a way that REALLY makes it sound like he's forcing Jeff to do it against his will and enabling/worsening Jeff's addiction problems because he just won't let him escape from this lifestyle. And, like, that might not be the case, and Jeff might be fully in control, and fully responsible for all his own actions. But Matt does a hell of a job of making it look like it's all his fault for being an exploitative bastard of an older brother. |
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Post by King Devitt: What Plants Crave on Dec 2, 2023 17:52:38 GMT -5
Matt needs (more accurate has needed) to go full Broken again. And spend the rest of his career (with Jeff if he wants) doing full on Broken Universe fun shenanigans.
If he wants to remain an on-air talent, this is the only way he can contribute in a meaningful way. The Hardy's as a regular tag team have been a wash for a long time now.
Otherwise retire, and take on backstage roles, it's uncomfortable watching you two try and wrestle.
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Post by A Platypus Rave is Correct on Dec 2, 2023 18:10:07 GMT -5
Matt needs (more accurate has needed) to go full Broken again. And spend the rest of his career (with Jeff if he wants) doing full on Broken Universe fun shenanigans. If he wants to remain an on-air talent, this is the only way he can contribute in a meaningful way. The Hardy's as a regular tag team have been a wash for a long time now. Otherwise retire, and take on backstage roles, it's uncomfortable watching you two try and wrestle. The problem is from all accounts Tony hates the Broken stuff. |
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Post by Ben Wyatt on Dec 2, 2023 19:23:31 GMT -5
The Hardys vs Copeland/Cage would make me sad seeing it on the indies, let alone on a major wrestling promotion in 2023
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Post by "Gizzark" Mike Wronglevenay on Dec 4, 2023 4:56:13 GMT -5
Matt needs (more accurate has needed) to go full Broken again. And spend the rest of his career (with Jeff if he wants) doing full on Broken Universe fun shenanigans. If he wants to remain an on-air talent, this is the only way he can contribute in a meaningful way. The Hardy's as a regular tag team have been a wash for a long time now. Otherwise retire, and take on backstage roles, it's uncomfortable watching you two try and wrestle. The problem is from all accounts Tony hates the Broken stuff. I have never understood promoters who cut shit because they don't understand it. It's over, the fans love it, it sells merch and can pop ratings - what the f*** else do you need to know? Aren't you trying to make money? It feels so short sighted. |
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Post by Jedi-El of Tomorrow on Dec 4, 2023 5:42:19 GMT -5
Matt needs (more accurate has needed) to go full Broken again. And spend the rest of his career (with Jeff if he wants) doing full on Broken Universe fun shenanigans. If he wants to remain an on-air talent, this is the only way he can contribute in a meaningful way. The Hardy's as a regular tag team have been a wash for a long time now. Otherwise retire, and take on backstage roles, it's uncomfortable watching you two try and wrestle. The problem is from all accounts Tony hates the Broken stuff. Then why hire the Hardys? Matt especially moves worse than an LJN figure. Their bodies are... oh, not that kind of broken. |
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Post by Can you afford to pay me, Gah on Dec 4, 2023 6:07:51 GMT -5
If Jeff didn't screw up (Again) they likely got more than they are. I mean keep in mind Jeff screw up just before a big ladder match (Even if they should never booked them in it knowing Jeff was banged up as it was.) The thing about is, how do you invest so much into a team that clearly can't go. Matt moves horribly. Than you factor Jeff being trusted with his past? Since he seems to be fine than boom another issue. Since Jeff came back, have we seen a match the Hardy's look good in? Why at this stage of there career should they be push harder than the other teams having great matches? They keep trying to be the Hardy's of 2000 in the ring but there bodies can't do it. I'm not trying to hate on the Hardys and they are legends but that style and father time catches up with you.
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Post by A Platypus Rave is Correct on Dec 4, 2023 9:02:47 GMT -5
The problem is from all accounts Tony hates the Broken stuff. I have never understood promoters who cut shit because they don't understand it. It's over, the fans love it, it sells merch and can pop ratings - what the f*** else do you need to know? Aren't you trying to make money? It feels so short sighted. While I get that stance I also see like why you wouldn't want the Broken Hardys since they basically exist in their own universe separate from everything else. |
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Facetious
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Post by Facetious on Dec 4, 2023 10:14:39 GMT -5
I have never understood promoters who cut shit because they don't understand it. It's over, the fans love it, it sells merch and can pop ratings - what the f*** else do you need to know? Aren't you trying to make money? It feels so short sighted. While I get that stance I also see like why you wouldn't want the Broken Hardys since they basically exist in their own universe separate from everything else. The segment where he debuted and the following ones were bad too. I think by the time AEW got ahold of it, it was cooked. The only promotion it worked in was TNA and they went all in. |
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Post by "Gizzark" Mike Wronglevenay on Dec 4, 2023 10:27:39 GMT -5
I have never understood promoters who cut shit because they don't understand it. It's over, the fans love it, it sells merch and can pop ratings - what the f*** else do you need to know? Aren't you trying to make money? It feels so short sighted. While I get that stance I also see like why you wouldn't want the Broken Hardys since they basically exist in their own universe separate from everything else. You may have a point there, but I guess without knowing more about what Tony dislikes about it we can't be specific. And the 'promoter doesn't get it so stopped pushing it' thing has been quite common in a number of promotions anyway, it's not just the Broken stuff it applies to |
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Post by markymark on Dec 4, 2023 10:36:52 GMT -5
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Facetious
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Post by Facetious on Dec 4, 2023 10:52:45 GMT -5
Other than falling off of stuff, what cool stuff can the Hardys in 2023 produce? Other than the Broken stuff in 2015-16, they haven't sent the world ablaze. |
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