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Post by Bubble Lead on Oct 27, 2009 19:10:03 GMT -5
Does WWE need any defenders regarding this?
Its like defending Wal Marts business practices because "Their purpose is to make money" or " they are doing nothing illegal."
WWE makes a huge amount of money during Wrestlemania weekend. The fans going to these smaller shows are either:
1. Fans who would be going to WM either way
2. Fans who dislike the WWE product and wouldn't be going to WM
Legal and unethical are two different things, by the way.
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Post by Bubble Lead on Oct 27, 2009 18:53:07 GMT -5
Jeez, is there really ANOTHER Hogan DVD? The guy hasn't even done anything in WWE since his last DVD, which was a 3 disc set. WTF? Hogan makes money. Thats the easy answer. |
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Post by Bubble Lead on Oct 27, 2009 18:49:31 GMT -5
I honestly never thought I would see this day.
I mean, maybe Hogan in a one off appearance or one match on a PPV vs. Sting or something. That wouldn't have surprised me, but full time in TNA?
I am not a Hogan fan in the least. Yet, I cant find a bad thing to say about this news. If Hogan is willing to play ball and work with younger talent I am all for it. Outside of Rock, Lesnar, or Austin, none of which could ever happen due to their desire to stay away from the business, this is about as huge a signing to generate media buzz as TNA could hope for.
I am actually more excited about Bischoff coming in. I hope its not just as an onscreen talent and he actually contributes backstage.
I am sick of WWEs stranglehold on the industry. I am tired of their sterlized product and the same old main eventers in the same old angles. At least TNA is willing to try new and different things. I hope this gives them a huge boost.
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Post by Bubble Lead on Oct 27, 2009 3:46:37 GMT -5
Any apologists here are just ingrained to mediocrity. Point blank.
Well, its a worthless filler PPV and these are the only stars WWE has been able to make. All those other guys who have been around two years or more just arent ready yet.
Yawn. Guess I shouldn't buy this worthless filler PPV. Good business sense on the part of WWE.
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Post by Bubble Lead on Oct 26, 2009 21:00:34 GMT -5
ROH is competition? Thats like saying the local family diner is competition for Burger King because they both sell burgers. And if Burger King was having a giant Burger King weekend sale and the family diner down the street went and advertised for people to come to their own Burger Weekend Sale. But Hamburgers and professional wrestling don't really translate. Wrestling seemed to do just fine when there was actual competition. |
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Post by Bubble Lead on Oct 26, 2009 20:44:38 GMT -5
Leeching? Leeching how? How would this hurt WWE in any way whatsoever? How has it in the past? I know ROH has been running Mania shows since I believe WM 22. It probably won't hurt the WWE but why would they want it to happen? If I ran a company I wouldn't want to help out the competition. ROH is competition? Thats like saying the local family diner is competition for Burger King because they both sell burgers. |
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Post by Bubble Lead on Oct 26, 2009 20:38:51 GMT -5
Makes perfect sense to me, WWE doesn't want others leeching off of them. Leeching? Leeching how? How would this hurt WWE in any way whatsoever? How has it in the past? I know ROH has been running Mania shows since I believe WM 22. |
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Post by Bubble Lead on Oct 26, 2009 20:34:40 GMT -5
Then again, I can see Vince's point, because let's say hypothetically on Wrestlemania weekend one of the indy guys in front of the biggest crowd of his life tries to steal a show and ends up crippling or killing himself and/or another worker. On wrestlemania weekend. In the same city. Vince already is held responsible for all the deaths in wrestling by the media and general public. That would be just an atomosphere destroyer for WWE. Oh please. Maybe WWE should have all their wrestlers travel to Wrestlemania via armored car and ban anything but headlocks at every Mania match. WHAT IF SOMEONE GETS HURT. Stupid logic. If this is true, its just WWE flexing muscle like they always do. *cues vids of Vince whining about Bischoff trying to hurt the other guy through shady business dealings* |
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Post by Bubble Lead on Oct 26, 2009 18:16:47 GMT -5
In related news this got world wide coverage in every syndicated paper, it was discussed at length during several very prominent talk shows, wwe's stocks dropped a steep 20 points as a result and parents everywhere have sworn off the entire wwe product for good. Or I'm being entirely sarcastic and Vince needs to stop being such a baby and grow up, and realize that *gasp*kids can handle seeing a wrestler bleed because *gasp again* wrestling can be dangerous and stuff like this happens. Yeah. Don't protect your wrestlers Vince. That's too PG! Let him bleed for 40 minutes! After 30 years of doing this shit, Vince suddenly is the most benevolent promoter ever? Please. I am not saying he doesnt care about the wrestlers but its not like he was ever above pushing guys [and himself] beyond acceptable limits all in the name of the show. As Vinces own blade jobs, which were incredibly dangerous in their own right, show. |
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Post by Bubble Lead on Oct 26, 2009 18:14:47 GMT -5
Kinda reminded me of when Mankind used to flip out and rock back and forth.
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Post by Bubble Lead on Oct 26, 2009 18:04:53 GMT -5
Back in the day if a guy came from a lot of success on the indies or in ECW, WWF would acknowledge it openly and use that as a way to springboard the guy into credibility with the fans.
Nowadays WWE pretends like nothing exists outside of their WWE universe. Would it certainly help WWE to acknowledge Danielsons past work? Yes. They never used to pretend like WCW, ECW, or the indies didnt exist. You know who tended to do that though? WCW. You know, the fed that gets a lot of crap for rarely pushing young stars above a certain level and having tunnel vision when it came to pushing people beyond the same old same old. Sound familiar?
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Post by Bubble Lead on Oct 26, 2009 7:42:30 GMT -5
I've always tolerated Michael Cole, but finally I really cringed at something he said. "Vintage Bragging Rights!" Can someone tell me how that is REMOTELY possible? *Cole drinks a glass of Franzia boxed wine* VINTAGE OCTOBER! |
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Post by Bubble Lead on Oct 26, 2009 7:38:08 GMT -5
good on McGuinness, he will actually get a push as indicated by IMPACt as he attacked the top guy, very effective way to make people notice him. Amdrag however will get a 20 second promo on ECW as he either jobs to tyler reks, or beats him and jobs to christian. 4 weeks later E scratch there head as they wonder why he isnt connecting with the crowd, soon after he is endevoured. yeah just like that CM Punk. seriously what is it with people lately and damning things before they happen? everyone thought CM Punk wouldn't make it and he did. everyone thought the Cena/Orton match would suck and it didn't (subjective i know but still the majority of people seemed to like it) everyone thought DX would bury Legacy and they didn't. why don't we wait and see what happens before damning everything? hasn't WWE been after Amdrag for years? i'm pretty sure they wouldn't be looking at him if they didn't think they could use him right and if they didn't have something for him. I dont damn everything. Just, you must understand that WWE has a pretty poor track record when it comes to certain things. One of those things happens to be building talent effectively, especially since WCW closed down. With no competition they can arbitrarily push or depush anyone, hire or fire anyone they want to. You saw it when the WCW roster came in and were used as jobbers and jokes until Vince got bored of that and got rid of most of them. Same with ECW when he decided to revive that brand. WWE isn't so good at pushing technical wrestlers with a lack of charisma or flair on the mic. Punk has both. Hence his push. Danielson not so much. WWE just isn't a good fit for him. For every Chris Benoit or Bret Hart you can point to, theres 20 Lance Storm or Charlie Haas examples. WWE is all about flair and showmanship. Not pure wrestling or five star matches. TNA is a better balance of the two, hence Nigel being a better fit there, as well as most indie guys like Daniels, Joe, Homicide, AJ, etc. A good example was that Iron Man Match tonight. I watched it and it was hardly about wrestling. It vaguely resembled it. The majority of the match was a bunch of punching, kicking, and stalling leading to goofy spots like Randy Orton attempting to murder John Cena with fireworks [why didnt the guy just bring a knife and shank him in the gut if he was willing to go that far?] or Randy Orton throwing Cena through a wall that randomly explodes into fairy dust. It looked more like a long, drawn out action movie fight scene, complete with a bunch of hokey camera angles zooming in on Orton gritting his teeth and spazzing out. I dont know, I just cant see AmDrag thriving in an environment that resembles pro wrestling less and less everyday and a cheap, sanitized Hollywood fight scene more and more everyday. Hopefully I am wrong, but I would bet more on him getting the Lance Storm treatment. |
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Post by Bubble Lead on Oct 26, 2009 7:18:51 GMT -5
It seems like a stupid reason to turn heel - "You cost me the title in a match where you were also trying to win the title, YOU'RE NOT MY FRIEND!" Still, they have been telegraphing the turn for a while now. It'll be interesting to see what develops. I think the idea behind it is just to make him seem like a selfish prick. |
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Post by Bubble Lead on Oct 26, 2009 5:31:50 GMT -5
Were those guys lazying it up for five years too? People actually believing that CARLITO has potential to be a major player is hilarious. There's a difference between The Rock and Carlito. Shocking, I know. Right. I don't get these people that think Carlito, Shelton, Charlie Hass should be headliners and creative blew it with them. All of them have skills, but Carlito is lackadasical in the ring (and I thought that the first time I saw him before reading any kind of internet comments), Shelton has little charisma and Hass is the black hole of charisma. Just because they've had some 4 star matches or some bulls*** doesn't mean they can be consistent main eventers. Never said they should be consistent main eventers. People like to put words in your mouth on here. Its booking 101. You build guys. You give midcarders exposure so the crowd gives a crap about them. I am not suggesting Carlito enter a program with the Undertaker, or that he is ready for a main event spot, or that he even ever will be. I am suggesting resigning a guy and paying him a salary to do nothing is stupid. I am also suggesting [well really, outright stating] that if creative cant come up with something for a good wrestler with decent mic skills to do, they suck at their jobs. At one point Miz was the joke of these boards but after three years of consistent build, character growth, and exposure he has developed a following and is running with the heat he has established. Is it that hard to understand that you can never expect a guy to improve or the crowd to care about him if half the time he is doing nothing? |
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Post by Bubble Lead on Oct 26, 2009 2:07:15 GMT -5
TLC is in December...I cant see Batista vs. Taker TLC.
Morrison vs. Punk TLC maybe? Perhaps Rey vs. Punk TLC? Unless they want to do another Triple Threat or something.
Punk as a heel champ headed into TLC makes the most sense. He can brag about ending Jeffs career in a TLC, and how he is now the master of the TLC match.
I suppose giving Matt Hardy a one off title match in a TLC environment wouldn't be out of the question either, but I would say thats the least likely of the available options, though it makes the most sense booking wise. Smackdowns WHC booking has been as illogical as RAWs since Takers return though.
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Post by Bubble Lead on Oct 25, 2009 22:40:39 GMT -5
What is there to debate anyway? It all comes down to difference of opinion and when you have something like an Ironman match where you might as well call it a Marmite match because of the differentiating preferences fans have - you're not going to get anywhere. Hell, just look at the Bret vs. Shawn Ironman match - you'll get just as many people singing its praises as the best thing ever as you will people condemning it as complete trash. Sure we can all state our opinions, but when everybody has a completely different idea of what the "facts" are - it's debate that will end up going nowhere. Exactly. A lot of people just flat out do not like Iron Man matches. It seems to be one of the more polarizing match types, regardless of who wrestles in them. I personally love them. I also love 60 minute time limit draws. Not every single match is about who wins or loses to me, as long as the match itself is a good match and keeps me entertained in some way. I guess Im more old school like that. |
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Post by Bubble Lead on Oct 25, 2009 22:34:39 GMT -5
Cena wouldn't have been DQed. The match just would have been over. Thats how Iron Man matches work. Once time runs out the match is restarted into overtime. So anything that happens between the time limit expiring and the match being restarted doesn't count. That is how they have always worked, regardless of stipulations. Now, if the rules had somehow been changed due to the No DQ nature of the match, perhaps the announcers should have clarified. I haven't seen the match but I imagine the announcers were probably making a big deal about the time running out while Orton was in the STF. If Orton tapping after the bell would have still meant he lost, why would the announcers do that? If they didn't then I stand corrected, but even having not seen the match yet I am sure they probably did. they specifically said that there would be overtime if it was a draw. If Cena knew there would be overtime why would he have any reason to undo it? Either the refs give up and say ring the bell to restart it with the STF still on or Orton passes out before he lets go and then he pins him when it restarts. Did you see the match? I didn't so I cannot talk about specifics. If you did, what were the announcers saying while Orton was in the STF and the clock was ticking down? Were they talking about Orton trying to hold on until time ran out? I am assuming they were stressing the drama of the situation. If Orton passing out or tapping out after time runs out still means he loses...no drama. |
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Post by Bubble Lead on Oct 25, 2009 22:26:30 GMT -5
Uhm, the very first Iron Man Match in WWF history ended during a submission and Hart broke the Sharpshooter because the clock ran out. That has always been the rule... If the clock runs out, the match is restarted. yeah, but this is an anything goes Iron Man match. No DQ's to threaten Cena with is he doesn't break the hold. And Orton's buddies who might run in and break it up are STILL being chased by Kofi with that chair. Cena wouldn't have been DQed. The match just would have been over. Thats how Iron Man matches work. Once time runs out the match is restarted into overtime. So anything that happens between the time limit expiring and the match being restarted doesn't count. That is how they have always worked, regardless of stipulations. Now, if the rules had somehow been changed due to the No DQ nature of the match, perhaps the announcers should have clarified. I haven't seen the match but I imagine the announcers were probably making a big deal about the time running out while Orton was in the STF. If Orton tapping after the bell would have still meant he lost, why would the announcers do that? If they didn't then I stand corrected, but even having not seen the match yet I am sure they probably did. |
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Post by Bubble Lead on Oct 25, 2009 22:14:52 GMT -5
I haven't seen the match yet, but from what I have read regarding it I dont see how anyone could think it was a waste of an hour.
Unless you just wanted Orton to win, but it was pretty obvious to me that he wasn't going to. Cena wasn't ever going to go to Smackdown or ECW. I didnt even expect this match to be good, but apparently it was. So definitely not a waste. Unless you are a blind Cena hater...but I dont like Cena much at all and will be the first to admit that he generally puts on good PPV matches once you get over the fact that he always no sells at the end of a match.
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