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Post by Super Nimieboo on Aug 11, 2007 13:45:58 GMT -5
To each their own I suppose, but the moment she gets beat down, we'll hear J.R or Cole go on about "This is unfair, she's a woman", and forgetting that she went in there willingly to face whomever. She's tough, no doubt, but I don't think there's any money in that whatsoever. The fans seem to be eating up Cena vs. Insert random heel here just fine. Just because one thing sells means to have it all over the card. People demand variety. Tell me: Don't you think Daivari going up for a Airplane Spin from Beth would get a massive pop? That's true. Crash vs. Jacqueline and Molly vs. Crash got great pops and Jacqueline got a pretty good pop when she busted Crash's nose. Women aren't going to be running a muck all over the place just because of one one-shot fued.
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Post by Hiroshi Hase on Aug 11, 2007 13:47:40 GMT -5
To each their own I suppose, but the moment she gets beat down, we'll hear J.R or Cole go on about "This is unfair, she's a woman", and forgetting that she went in there willingly to face whomever. She's tough, no doubt, but I don't think there's any money in that whatsoever. The fans seem to be eating up Cena vs. Insert random heel here just fine. Just because one thing sells means to have it all over the card. People demand variety. Tell me: Don't you think Daivari going up for a Airplane Spin from Beth would get a massive pop? Without question, I agree people want variety, but I just meant as a feature attraction about Cena. It'd do ok in an opening match or something, and get a few laughs about how wimpy Daivari is, but that's it.
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Post by 'Sweet n' Sour' A. A. Estrada on Aug 11, 2007 13:48:44 GMT -5
It has it's place when a heel wrestler does it to a woman. That's one form of heat.
The problem is when the crowd ENJOYS it, which really bothers me. Or when faces beat up women and everyone goes 'yaaaaay!'
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Post by Super Nimieboo on Aug 11, 2007 13:49:00 GMT -5
Just because one thing sells means to have it all over the card. People demand variety. Tell me: Don't you think Daivari going up for a Airplane Spin from Beth would get a massive pop? Without question, I agree people want variety, but I just meant as a feature attraction about Cena. It'd do ok in an opening match or something, and get a few laughs about how wimpy Daivari is, but that's it. It sucks to be a woman.
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Post by Super Nimieboo on Aug 11, 2007 13:49:43 GMT -5
That's cause she's the underdog and instant babyface, the babyface always gets special treatment. Male or female. When Rey does Eddie's move it's a tribute but when Chavo does it, it's a disgrace. Same thing. There seems to be no money in women at all unless they're flashing their tits and being sex objects. Why do I love wrestling at all? *deep sigh* It certainly seems stupid to love something that women don't belong in. Women do have a place, but it's a struggle to get them over sometimes, like cruiserweights. Women have a place. As cheerleaders for men or showing their boobs. That's the only two things.
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Post by Mozenrath on Aug 11, 2007 13:51:39 GMT -5
Lita was over as a wrestler. I don't think it's impossible to ever get that over again.
More women should probably get lucha backgrounds, becuase the average fan doesn't have the patience to watch a woman wrestle in a slow paced style. It's an unfair truth.
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Post by Hiroshi Hase on Aug 11, 2007 13:53:38 GMT -5
Lita was over as a wrestler. I don't think it's impossible to ever get that over again. More women should probably get lucha backgrounds, becuase the average fan doesn't have the patience to watch a woman wrestle in a slow paced style. It's an unfair truth. True, Lita was over as a wrestler, no doubt about that. One of the best in the women's division. Just that I can't envision seeing her in a main event of a show against the likes of Rock or Triple-H, just no money in that.
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Post by thestinger on Aug 11, 2007 13:54:27 GMT -5
I still don't quite understand why Stone Cold got a huge face pop when he stunned Stacy Keibler in the ring with no reason whatsoever back in 2003. I think JR tried to explain it with something like "you're not supposed to turn down a beer from Stone Cold" and didn't seem to mind at all... while if it had been, say, Chris Jericho putting her in the Walls for some equally nonexistent reason, JR would have been screaming "BAH GAWD, SOMEBODY STOP THIS, SHE IS GONNA BE BROKEN IN HALF!! DAMN YOUR BLACK HEART, CHRIS JERICHO! DAMMIT! BAH GAWD!!" To understand why he got a huge face pop you would have to understand the appeal of the character, which I don't. Basically he attacks people for no reason, and the fans love him for it. I don't get it. When the Monday Night Wars were at the final stage where it was still possible for WCW to win, Sid Vicious was over huge as a heel. How did Sid get such heat? By entering the ring whenever he felt like it and attacking people at random. He was absolutely hated for this. Fans would chant "Goldberg" and when Bill finally challanged the big goofball everyone was psyched for a match we pretty much knew would suck (that's how good the buildup was). At the same time the most popular face in WWF (their "Goldberg") WAS the guy entering the ring whenever he felt like and attacking people for no reason. I'll understand cheering for the bad guy sometimes, but I'll never understand Austin being a face.
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Post by rrm15 on Aug 11, 2007 13:54:37 GMT -5
No, you're not wrong to love men. It's 2007 and we dont judge here at the 'Crap.
;D
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Post by Super Nimieboo on Aug 11, 2007 13:56:00 GMT -5
Lita was over as a wrestler. I don't think it's impossible to ever get that over again. More women should probably get lucha backgrounds, becuase the average fan doesn't have the patience to watch a woman wrestle in a slow paced style. It's an unfair truth. True, Lita was over as a wrestler, no doubt about that. One of the best in the women's division. Just that I can't envision seeing her in a main event of a show against the likes of Rock or Triple-H, just no money in that. I don't think anyone's saying women should wrestle top men in the mainevents. Really.
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Post by Mozenrath on Aug 11, 2007 13:56:25 GMT -5
Lita was over as a wrestler. I don't think it's impossible to ever get that over again. More women should probably get lucha backgrounds, becuase the average fan doesn't have the patience to watch a woman wrestle in a slow paced style. It's an unfair truth. True, Lita was over as a wrestler, no doubt about that. One of the best in the women's division. Just that I can't envision seeing her in a main event of a show against the likes of Rock or Triple-H, just no money in that. Actually, she was, in a tag match with Rock against Triple H and Trish. I think she even got the pin.
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Post by Hiroshi Hase on Aug 11, 2007 13:58:20 GMT -5
True, Lita was over as a wrestler, no doubt about that. One of the best in the women's division. Just that I can't envision seeing her in a main event of a show against the likes of Rock or Triple-H, just no money in that. Actually, she was, in a tag match with Rock against Triple H and Trish. I think she even got the pin. Right, in a tag team match which I mentioned earlier was no problem to do as you could easily have the guy help her and as I remember Rock did help in the pin. And to Billy, I wasn't sure. If you have them in mid-card matches against the lower card talent, then I guess it's alright. I thought you were seeking that out, because that'd be way unrealistic for anyone not named Chyna. I remember she was originally slated to face Steve Austin at Summerslam 99 and even win the title I think, but I don't think Austin would've done the job for her.
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Post by Mozenrath on Aug 11, 2007 14:00:54 GMT -5
Remember Rodney Mack and the 5 minute White Boy challenge? Do that with a tough girl and local jobbers.
"No man can tame me. No one is man enough for this."
You'd have a drawing segment.
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Post by Hiroshi Hase on Aug 11, 2007 14:02:16 GMT -5
Remember Rodney Mack and the 5 minute White Boy challenge? Do that with a tough girl and local jobbers. "No man can tame me. No one is man enough for this." You'd have a drawing segment. Maybe, but still people would know she'd be no match for the upper card guys. Midcard/lower card guys fine who aren't doing anything else I suppose it's ok.
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Post by Super Nimieboo on Aug 11, 2007 14:03:15 GMT -5
^^ Women need to get over other women in the WWE before we worry about that. All of them look like wimps, it's bringing all of womens' wrestling down, making it look like a weak side show compared to the 'real' wrestling, the men. Back in the day woman had to be tough against each otherActually, she was, in a tag match with Rock against Triple H and Trish. I think she even got the pin. Right, in a tag team match which I mentioned earlier was no problem to do as you could easily have the guy help her and as I remember Rock did help in the pin. And to Billy, I wasn't sure. If you have them in mid-card matches against the lower card talent, then I guess it's alright. I thought you were seeking that out, because that'd be way unrealistic for anyone not named Chyna. I remember she was originally slated to face Steve Austin at Summerslam 99 and even win the title I think, but I don't think Austin would've done the job for her. Of course not, she was a woman who has no place in wrestling. It's a man's world, baby! But seriously women can't do anything except for kicks and comedy matches.
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Post by Super Nimieboo on Aug 11, 2007 14:04:13 GMT -5
Remember Rodney Mack and the 5 minute White Boy challenge? Do that with a tough girl and local jobbers. "No man can tame me. No one is man enough for this." You'd have a drawing segment. Maybe, but still people would know she'd be no match for the upper card guys. Midcard/lower card guys fine who aren't doing anything else I suppose it's ok. My original point still stands, women are on an unequal playing field in wrestling as in life.
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Post by Mozenrath on Aug 11, 2007 14:07:01 GMT -5
Remember Rodney Mack and the 5 minute White Boy challenge? Do that with a tough girl and local jobbers. "No man can tame me. No one is man enough for this." You'd have a drawing segment. Maybe, but still people would know she'd be no match for the upper card guys. Midcard/lower card guys fine who aren't doing anything else I suppose it's ok. I'm not saying that. Mack never faced anyone big until Goldberg creamed him. She would just be the unobtainable woman. Beautiful, but will slap a lock on you to make you cry for mercy.
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Post by Hiroshi Hase on Aug 11, 2007 14:07:43 GMT -5
Maybe, but still people would know she'd be no match for the upper card guys. Midcard/lower card guys fine who aren't doing anything else I suppose it's ok. My original point still stands, women are on an unequal playing field in wrestling as in life. Maybe, maybe not. I know I wouldn't pay money to see a woman fight a man, no offense to the people involved, but I don't give a shit if they are fighting and to see a woman beat a guy, just couldn't buy it, unless she outweighed him and was like Chyna or Bertha Faye or something. I just prefer to see the guys vs. the guys and the women vs. the women, well to be honest I don't care for those matches either. Just one man's opinion.
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Post by 'Sweet n' Sour' A. A. Estrada on Aug 11, 2007 14:07:50 GMT -5
A match between Daizee Haze and Gran Akuma from CHIKARA comes to mind. She held her own very well in that match.
I think the problem with 'women versus men' in WWE is that all the guys are 6'4 and over, while the women are dainty flowers.
If the male wrestlers came in more realistic proportions, it would make more sense. Who isn't to say a woman can fight a man, if both are in great shape? But if you portray all of the women on your roster as a side show that exists only to wiggle and dance, it's not going to work.
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Post by Hiroshi Hase on Aug 11, 2007 14:08:30 GMT -5
Maybe, but still people would know she'd be no match for the upper card guys. Midcard/lower card guys fine who aren't doing anything else I suppose it's ok. I'm not saying that. Mack never faced anyone big until Goldberg creamed him. She would just be the unobtainable woman. Beautiful, but will slap a lock on you to make you cry for mercy. Actually he was working his way up in that particular challenge, it started off with jobbers, then he faced Spike, then D-Von, then Bubba Ray and then Goldberg as I recall, so the challenges got tougher, they weren't all squashes.
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